RE: Land Rover Wolf | Spotted
Discussion
Mine is the opposite end of the ex-MOD spectrum. A 1985 soft top 90, 2.5 NA diesel donkey, no power steering, ex RAF. Originally with a squadron of F4 Phantoms, then Nimrods at Kinloss. It has a layer of desert sand under its very faded green so it may have been to the Gulf in '91. There isn't a straight panel on it and it leaks like a sieve, but I love its simplicity, honesty and usefulness as the tip run wheels and 'recalibration device' after driving modern stuff day to day. It will grow old disgracefully with a V8 transplant at some point, mainly for the noise, although a bit more oomph wouldn't go amiss, it is dog slow! And it cost 10% of that Wolf! 
harleywilma said:
But dont they all drive like s
te....
Yes. Absolutely. They're an old 50's off-road utility vehicle, that you can drive on the road. On the road they have no redeeming qualities whatsoever. If you are a farmer or a utilities company and spend 70% of your time driving off-road, then great. If you spend 95% of your time driving it on-road then you've either bought into some fashion/image thing, confusing rubbish with "charm" or you're a Walt. There are a myriad of newer, cheaper alternatives that do everything conceivable better on and most likely off-road too. Sure it makes an interesting classic to tinker on, like an old Bettle, Minor or Austin 7 but come on, honestly, they're a rubbish daily driver prospect compared to anything similar built in the last 30 years.te....TEKNOPUG said:
harleywilma said:
But dont they all drive like ste....
Yes. Absolutely. They're an old 50's off-road utility vehicle, that you can drive on the road. On the road they have no redeeming qualities whatsoever. If you are a farmer or a utilities company and spend 70% of your time driving off-road, then great. If you spend 95% of your time driving it on-road then you've either bought into some fashion/image thing, confusing rubbish with "charm" or you're a Walt. There are a myriad of newer, cheaper alternatives that do everything conceivable better on and most likely off-road too. Sure it makes an interesting classic to tinker on, like an old Bettle, Minor or Austin 7 but come on, honestly, they're a rubbish daily driver prospect compared to anything similar built in the last 30 years.te....The Defender is not 50 years old, despite JLR's marketing efforts.
Seriously go and drive a 1950's Series 1 80" and then a Defender. They are worlds apart.
Defenders are coil sprung, something many pickups today still aren't. Thus they actually ride quite well, the short wheel base of the 90 can make it more jittery on certain roads, but the suspension should be quite compliant.
They are also quite fun to drive. And handle very well. The steering may be a little numb, but they turn in well and generally give a lot of feedback throughout the entire vehicle. Stock seats are very comfortable and if you are under 6 foot tall the driving position is also very good.
Most Defenders have disc brakes all round and stop very well. And as they are full time 4wd they are very planted and stable on the road.
There are even a few PH people who track day Land Rovers, one of the ones in Readers Rides even runs a TVR Cerbera V8 in his...... yet still retains the basic suspension layout and operation.
I've extensively driven a 2016 90 and many of the previous years too. I'll maintain my assertion that they are rubbish to drive on the road compared to any Japanese/German 4WD vehicle with similar off-road capabilities built in the last 30 years. The driving position is poor, the gearchange is stubborn, over 50mph they bounce around requiring constant steering correction, they lean comically at anything above ambling pace and the engine constantly reminds you it's from a Transit van. Carting sheep at 20mph over a field? Great. Negotiating a steep snowy lane? Great. Pulling a hatchback out of a ditch? Great. Driving on the road as a car? Rubbish. Presumably the new Defender will address this and the sales will hopefully be great.
TEKNOPUG said:
I've extensively driven a 2016 90 and many of the previous years too. I'll maintain my assertion that they are rubbish to drive on the road compared to any Japanese/German 4WD vehicle with similar off-road capabilities built in the last 30 years. The driving position is poor, the gearchange is stubborn, over 50mph they bounce around requiring constant steering correction, they lean comically at anything above ambling pace and the engine constantly reminds you it's from a Transit van. Carting sheep at 20mph over a field? Great. Negotiating a steep snowy lane? Great. Pulling a hatchback out of a ditch? Great. Driving on the road as a car? Rubbish. Presumably the new Defender will address this and the sales will hopefully be great.
Well we are all different.BTW - only one sounds like a Transit. Probably because is shares the same engine
The rest don't. Some even sound like TVR's
And on that note, the same gearbox is used on many as you'd find in some TVR's. It really isn't that bad to shift at all.
I've not been in any that bounce at 50mph, maybe all yours have been broken or you are very jiggly
-- only joking, don't take it as an insult.....As for body lean, not noticed it being any worse than any other comparable 4x4. Some Jap trucks don't lean as much as they have very stiff Leaf springs at the back instead of coils. But these generally ride far worse.
County Station Wagons often had ARBs, and due to a lighter body would lean less than a Discovery 1 or Range Rover classic in the corners. And neither of those were any worse than a Land Cruiser, Patrol, Shogun, etc.
I suspect you are being overly critical for some reason, as you are singling out these and claiming all other 4x4's are better.
Defender rally car, sounds s
t but goes well, and doesn't fall over around fast corners. I drive an old Land Rover which is pretty nice to drive on radial tyres and with all the slack adjusted out of the steering box, newer ones are quite nifty on the road if the suspension is in good nick, the only annoying thing is the awful steering lock (or lack of it).
I've driven thousands of miles on and off road in Jap pickups and they are perfectly competent in most respects, but not conspicuously better than a late model Defender, although they are easier to hop in and out of and rather better on diesel. Getting stuff out of the load bed is a pain in the arse though, with a canopy fitted.
warch said:
I drive an old Land Rover which is pretty nice to drive on radial tyres and with all the slack adjusted out of the steering box, newer ones are quite nifty on the road if the suspension is in good nick, the only annoying thing is the awful steering lock (or lack of it).
Stock they turn like a battleship.Adjust the lock stops and either run narrower tyres or slightly wider offset rims and they turn pretty good.
300bhp/ton said:
warch said:
I drive an old Land Rover which is pretty nice to drive on radial tyres and with all the slack adjusted out of the steering box, newer ones are quite nifty on the road if the suspension is in good nick, the only annoying thing is the awful steering lock (or lack of it).
Stock they turn like a battleship.Adjust the lock stops and either run narrower tyres or slightly wider offset rims and they turn pretty good.
300bhp/ton said:
TEKNOPUG said:
harleywilma said:
But dont they all drive like ste....
Yes. Absolutely. They're an old 50's off-road utility vehicle, that you can drive on the road. On the road they have no redeeming qualities whatsoever. If you are a farmer or a utilities company and spend 70% of your time driving off-road, then great. If you spend 95% of your time driving it on-road then you've either bought into some fashion/image thing, confusing rubbish with "charm" or you're a Walt. There are a myriad of newer, cheaper alternatives that do everything conceivable better on and most likely off-road too. Sure it makes an interesting classic to tinker on, like an old Bettle, Minor or Austin 7 but come on, honestly, they're a rubbish daily driver prospect compared to anything similar built in the last 30 years.te....The Defender is not 50 years old, despite JLR's marketing efforts.
Seriously go and drive a 1950's Series 1 80" and then a Defender. They are worlds apart.
Defenders are coil sprung, something many pickups today still aren't. Thus they actually ride quite well, the short wheel base of the 90 can make it more jittery on certain roads, but the suspension should be quite compliant.
They are also quite fun to drive. And handle very well. The steering may be a little numb, but they turn in well and generally give a lot of feedback throughout the entire vehicle. Stock seats are very comfortable and if you are under 6 foot tall the driving position is also very good.
Most Defenders have disc brakes all round and stop very well. And as they are full time 4wd they are very planted and stable on the road.
There are even a few PH people who track day Land Rovers, one of the ones in Readers Rides even runs a TVR Cerbera V8 in his...... yet still retains the basic suspension layout and operation.
Defenders can handle very well and can be huge fun to drive, on and off road.
Similar to TVRs it is essential to maintain them properly to get the best out of them and finetune them for your specific needs and often your body size.
I wouldn´t mind an AJP8 Defender though
warch said:
My one has the wider 110 rims and 750 radials, so halfway decent lock, and no wandering steering. I had an SHB 16 plate SW and really struggled with the lack of lock especially turning into narrow field entrances.
The aftermarket 8 spokes or modular rims can often be had with a different offset. they should let you run a 235/85R16 and keep it inside the wheel arch, but enable you to wind the lock stops all the way in, and still not rub on the radius arms.Genuine One Ton rims will get you close, as would 130 rims or Wolf rims. The best stock rim is the Series IIb rim, but these are like hens teeth and command prices as such. The older rims like the One Tons need tubes though.
I'm running One Ton rims and some spacers on the front with a narrow tyre. I can actually remove the lock stop completely and still not get any rubbing. Turing radius is very good.
300bhp/ton said:
I suspect you are being overly critical for some reason, as you are singling out these and claiming all other 4x4's are better.
ALL 4x4s from Japan, Germany or USA designed and built in the last 30 years are better to drive, yes, that's what I'm saying.Don't get me wrong, I'm not hating on the Defender. It does exactly what is says on the tin.
It's just that what the tin says is "Basic, simple, utility 4x4 off-road vehicle that can be driven on the road."
TEKNOPUG said:
ALL 4x4s from Japan, Germany or USA designed and built in the last 30 years are better to drive, yes, that's what I'm saying.
I get were you are coming from. But in almost all the cases these are just evolution's of older designs.For example the Jimny. It rides and handles very much like a Defender, but with shorter wheelbase and narrower track is slightly more prone to a jittery ride over some surfaces.
The new 4th Gen Jimny is essentially a re-bodied 3rd Gen. And the SJ before it ran leaf springs all round as rode significantly worse than a Defender.
Ok they might not leak water in like a Defender does and the body tub is more of a one piece item and thus more refined too. But in terms of how it interacts with the road it isn't.
Nearly all of the trucks we get use ladder frames much like they have since the 1970's. The only relatively modern difference is torsion bar front independent suspension. Which in most cases was probably done as a cost saving measure over a live axle and for the perceived impression it is better on road. I've not been in any that have significantly ridden or steered any better though. And this includes IFS/live rear Jap SUV's.
Edited by 300bhp/ton on Wednesday 25th September 16:25
DoubleD said:
I have driven loads of them over the years and I they have all been awful when driving on road.
I'm sure they haven't been. But we know you are special. 
BTW - would you say a Caterham is awful on the road? Unrefined, noisy, very drafty, possibly damp and cold and uncomfortable.
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