Honest John and Left Foot Braking?

Honest John and Left Foot Braking?

Author
Discussion

Krikkit

16,322 posts

127 months

Saturday 28th September
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MC Bodge said:
borcy said:
I thought on nearly all new ish cars you can't press both accelerator and brake at the same time as the computer says no?
Myth
VAG definitely implemented this in their non-sporty models, possibly all of them.

I seem to remember the Hyundai i30N was launched without it specifically as the guy from BMW M division in charge wanted it that way... Renault RS models too.

buggalugs

8,564 posts

183 months

Saturday 28th September
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Toltec said:
buggalugs said:
You can alter the balance of the car in corners but the public roads are no place for that kind of shinanigins,

It's sometimes nice to build a tiny bit of boost against the brakes when you're getting ready to nail a tiny gap though.
I know it isn't what you really meant, however it is literally impossible to drive a car without altering its balance, it happens every time you change speed or direction. Controlling the rate of change of acceleration is how you drive smoothly. Perhaps it is more inate to bike riders, for me it is no different than stirring while you add the boiled water to a cup.
Oh yes you’re right there. I was really talking about throttle and brake at the same time in a corner to combat or increase over or understeer. If that makes sense.

borcy

382 posts

2 months

Saturday 28th September
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TheJimi said:
Jesus Christ.

What the fk has his wife, got to do with *anything*?

I can just imagine a face to face discussion with the guy about his opinions on cars & driving, and in the middle of it, borcy pipes up about his wife being Thai.

Oh wait...


Edited by TheJimi on Saturday 28th September 19:47
Pretty obvious why I mentioned it i thought, obviously not for some though.

I'll spell it out though for the hard of thinking, he spends time out there hence why he reviews odd far eastern only cars.

Happy ?

MC Bodge

11,468 posts

121 months

Saturday 28th September
quotequote all
Krikkit said:
VAG definitely implemented this in their non-sporty models, possibly all of them.
I have a TSI 150 and I can heel and toe in it....

Searider

809 posts

201 months

Saturday 28th September
quotequote all
borcy said:
I thought on nearly all new ish cars you can't press both accelerator and brake at the same time as the computer says no?
My 2000/X Audi S4 cut all power if you pressed both pedals.

Toltec

5,812 posts

169 months

Sunday 29th September
quotequote all
buggalugs said:
Toltec said:
buggalugs said:
You can alter the balance of the car in corners but the public roads are no place for that kind of shinanigins,

It's sometimes nice to build a tiny bit of boost against the brakes when you're getting ready to nail a tiny gap though.
I know it isn't what you really meant, however it is literally impossible to drive a car without altering its balance, it happens every time you change speed or direction. Controlling the rate of change of acceleration is how you drive smoothly. Perhaps it is more inate to bike riders, for me it is no different than stirring while you add the boiled water to a cup.
Oh yes you’re right there. I was really talking about throttle and brake at the same time in a corner to combat or increase over or understeer. If that makes sense.
While I find little trailing brake helps the turn in feel on most cars set up, not unwisely, for understeer I was talking about smoothing out transitions really rather than for corrections.

InitialDave

5,629 posts

65 months

Sunday 29th September
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Yes, quite a lot of cars cut throttle input when you press the brake pedal, though amongst those that do, in my experience it seems there's quite a variation in how much leeway they give you before having a sulk.

I'm also in the camp of using LFB in FWD stuff when circumstances make it beneficial, but the idea of doing it in an auto for some kind of "safety" reason just strikes me as odd, and I've never found it to be necessary. I don't see it as being actively "wrong", though, and practicing your modulation with your left foot so you can do it is probably a good thing.

CubanPete

2,118 posts

134 months

Sunday 29th September
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Useful for steep junctions, or busy ones for reducing lag / crude launch control when the gaps are small.

Use very occasionally when driving, but mainly to practice it for ifi need it...

FiF

35,905 posts

197 months

Sunday 29th September
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Cutting off throttle if brake pressed used to be just vehicles with Bosch injection systems, but it's more widely the case now.

As another has observed it varies how much leeway you get but it's never an instantaneous cut off, few seconds mostly, so observation regarding ability to heel and toe is irrelevant.

Certainly it can hinder if you're looking to emerge from a junction and holding it on the footbrake but with a tiny bit of throttle, maybe for an exploratory creep forward. In some cases awkward timing can result in an unfortunate throttle cut off mid junction when you do launch

As for LFB, I first used it in rally cars which trained my left foot to be more restrained from when simply used as solely for clutch. It depends which vehicle I'm driving, in the auto 4x4 which has relatively heavy controls then LFB all the time when manoeuvring, much of the time in normal driving. Another auto which is a medium hatchback with very light controls, then only use LFB in very close quarter manoeuvring, rest of time right foot only as in that case my LF is still too clumsy for really smooth progress.

If you want to watch one of RegLocal's videos on driving an auto, he is OK about LFB as long as it's done competently. But in essence you need to be off the brakes a couple of lengths before a hazard, a bend say, in order to give the gearbox time to sort itself out and avoid those horrible mid bend changes. To my eyes that makes the arguments in favour of LFB due to saving fractions of a second or similar techniques complete tosh as far as normal wafting along the public road style driving is concerned, as opposed to absolutely hammering it, which opens up other issues. Sorry bit of a po faced response there.

DickyC

34,367 posts

144 months

Sunday 29th September
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The surprise for me was how natural left foot braking feels in an automatic. My coordination has never been the greatest but swap my manual car for my wife's auto and I'm left foot braking in hers with no problems. For clarity, I don't do it to gain any advantage in the traffic light Grand Prix so I'm not on both pedals simultaneously. It just feels more balanced to use both feet. I'm 65, I have been able to drive since I was 11, I commuted most of my working life in manuals and am now, in the twilight of my autumn, delivering cars; many of which are automatic and I left foot brake without thinking about it and without incident.

The Mad Monk

5,657 posts

63 months

Sunday 29th September
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Nah.

Right foot for go, Right foot for whoa!

DickyC

34,367 posts

144 months

Sunday 29th September
quotequote all
The Mad Monk said:
Nah.

Right foot for go, Right foot for whoa!
Aren't you afraid your left foot will wither through lack of use?

JimSuperSix

3,069 posts

189 months

Sunday 29th September
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InitialDave said:
but the idea of doing it in an auto for some kind of "safety" reason just strikes me as odd
Well it does (or can dep upon the driver I suppose) reduce the overall reaction time as you don't have to move your right foot over to the brake pedal, your left foot can already be covering that pedal.

janesmith1950

3,812 posts

41 months

Sunday 29th September
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JimSuperSix said:
Well it does (or can dep upon the driver I suppose) reduce the overall reaction time as you don't have to move your right foot over to the brake pedal, your left foot can already be covering that pedal.
I hate to think how tired my left ankle would get, constantly hoovering above the brake. Would probably reduce its effective ability to brake...

Sometimes people have to invent all sorts of reasons they 'need' to to something that sounds a bit more advanced.

I've driven a few autos over decent miles, RR Classic V8, Forester Turbo, Volvo V90 (current), Mercedes SLK, BMW 320 8sp, M140 8sp, M3 F80 DCT.

Whilst I CAN left foot brake in any of them, I've never NEEDED to in any of them in order to use them more smoothly or effectively.

I can park using my right foot without crashing into things, set off on hills without rolling back into lines of unsuspecting children and I've never felt the need to shave 0.2 seconds of a personal best around Sainsbury's car park.

No doubt in true PH fashion there will be a queue of motoring experts who will tell me I'm a pleb who can't drive, why there are 500 physics equations why it'll save my gearbox or how one time they prevented themselves from dying I a fireball of death because they always drive 599 miles at a time whilst hovering their left foot over the brake pedal at all times.

I can live with that.

DoubleD

9,262 posts

54 months

Sunday 29th September
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DickyC said:
The Mad Monk said:
Nah.

Right foot for go, Right foot for whoa!
Aren't you afraid your left foot will wither through lack of use?
He probably uses his left foot for the clutch.

DickyC

34,367 posts

144 months

Sunday 29th September
quotequote all
DoubleD said:
DickyC said:
The Mad Monk said:
Nah.

Right foot for go, Right foot for whoa!
Aren't you afraid your left foot will wither through lack of use?
He probably uses his left foot for the clutch.
Or possibly the dip switch. What car is it?

DickyC

34,367 posts

144 months

Sunday 29th September
quotequote all
DickyC said:
DoubleD said:
DickyC said:
The Mad Monk said:
Nah.

Right foot for go, Right foot for whoa!
Aren't you afraid your left foot will wither through lack of use?
He probably uses his left foot for the clutch.
Or possibly the dip switch. What car is it?
There's someone back there hoovering with their left foot. Who said men can't multi-task?

Alex_225

3,560 posts

147 months

Sunday 29th September
quotequote all
My daily car has been an auto for some years now and I can honestly say I've never felt the need to left foot brake.

Totally appreciate the concept in terms of manual cars and in race conditions but on the road, right for for accelerator and brake as I would generally in a manual car.

I have tried left foot braking in the car but I've not found it advantageous to continue doing.

Cold

7,534 posts

36 months

Sunday 29th September
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I just find more comfortable. No need to attempt to justify it by claiming I'm a rally driver, it's simply a more pleasant way of operating the car.

bad company

10,991 posts

212 months

Sunday 29th September
quotequote all
Cold said:
I just find more comfortable. No need to attempt to justify it by claiming I'm a rally driver, it's simply a more pleasant way of operating the car.
That’s my view also. There’s 2 pedals and you have 2 feet.