Honest John and Left Foot Braking?
Discussion
FiF said:
DonkeyApple said:
It’s clearly possible in Mercs as every Indian mother in NW London drives everywhere with their left foot on the brake at all times. But they are clearly operating at F1 driver skill levels and competently shaving tenths of a second off the race to the shops.
At last we possibly have an answer as to why a certain demographic randomly and unnecessarily brakes while chuntering up the M40 on the way up to Birminghamshire.
OnTheEdge said:
I really can't see any compelling reason to left foot brake on the road, certainly no-one has provided anything in this thread apart from personal preference.
Many years ago I liked to left foot brake my Primera as it made getting the back end out much easier. I haven't done it in years but it made my stupid o'clock commute across Bracknell much more fun.Fewer years ago I had to take a Dodge Calibre up and down Highway 74 (Palm Springs to Hemmet). Left footing kept it in gear so I could approach and go around corners much more smoothly.
Good enough?
DoubleD said:
Graveworm said:
DoubleD said:
I cant say that I have ever needed to brace myself in the seat while out and about.
I've never been in an accident, kerbed a car or had one stolen but I am willing to accept it can happen. bad company said:
OnTheEdge said:
I really can't see any compelling reason to left foot brake on the road, certainly no-one has provided anything in this thread apart from personal preference.
You either haven’t read all the thread, haven’t understood it or refuse to believe what people are saying.However, I also don't see understand how braking with my right foot is in anyway detrimental to my enjoyment of a daily commute, either from a safety perspective or enjoyment perspective.
I also maintain that advocates and practitioners of Left Foot Braking are also more likely to start each journey with driving sunglasses, driving shoes, driving gloves, an intimate knowledge of each apex on their way to work, high performance tyres on their 10 year old BMW and boot full of survival equipment between October and April.
Tom_Spotley_When said:
also maintain that advocates and practitioners of Left Foot Braking are also more likely to start each journey with driving sunglasses, driving shoes, driving gloves, an intimate knowledge of each apex on their way to work, high performance tyres on their 10 year old BMW and boot full of survival equipment between October and April.
I don't left-foot brake, have driving gloves or late-apex brake on my way to Tesco. I do, however, have high performance tyres on my 10 year old S-Class because it goes just as fast now as ever it did and is in just as much need of performance tyres.I also have warm clothes in the boot, some water and boots, but then the car get driven in all conditions and regularly travels to the Alps. Having been stuck in an impassable snowstorm overnight makes you realise that being prepared isn't such a stupid thing.
bad company said:
OnTheEdge said:
I really can't see any compelling reason to left foot brake on the road, certainly no-one has provided anything in this thread apart from personal preference.
You either haven’t read all the thread, haven’t understood it or refuse to believe what people are saying.NewUsername said:
bad company said:
OnTheEdge said:
I really can't see any compelling reason to left foot brake on the road, certainly no-one has provided anything in this thread apart from personal preference.
You either haven’t read all the thread, haven’t understood it or refuse to believe what people are saying.Edited by anonymous-user on Tuesday 8th October 15:29
InitialDave said:
I can see left foot braking slightly reducing total stopping time/distance if you're starting from a position of left foot hovering over the pedal ready to push it, but that strikes me as unrealistic and an uncomfortable position to maintain.
Oh boy, we've only answered this one perhaps 10 times already.JimSuperSix said:
Your argument seems to be that because someone has their left foot covering the brake that they will be travelling faster. which is of course not true, and then you get lost because you've started from an incorrect assumption.
For a logical argument you have to consider to benefits from an identical starting point, not make silly assumptions such as the above. So for example if we consider a situation where you are driving at a steady 20mph, as you would for example outside a school or alongside a row of parked cars, if you can LFB then you can already have your left foot in position ready to apply the brakes. If you RFB then you will have to move your foot across before you can begin to brake.
There is zero reason to start from the assumption that the right-foot braker will be travelling slower than the left-foot braker, which is what you argument above appears to derive from.
So if my assumption is wrong, the driver with their left, rather than right foot, over the brake will also have their right foot off the gas or they must be driving faster. If that is the case, then the RFB person, in the majority of cases, will have the physiological advantage. Your 20mph put the foot over the brake "In case" but maintain the same speed is moot here. That's about bad observation or driving or both - not about which foot to drive badly with. If you can't stop in the distance you can see to be clear, and can expect to remain clear, then that's too fast - neither foot should be on the gas.For a logical argument you have to consider to benefits from an identical starting point, not make silly assumptions such as the above. So for example if we consider a situation where you are driving at a steady 20mph, as you would for example outside a school or alongside a row of parked cars, if you can LFB then you can already have your left foot in position ready to apply the brakes. If you RFB then you will have to move your foot across before you can begin to brake.
There is zero reason to start from the assumption that the right-foot braker will be travelling slower than the left-foot braker, which is what you argument above appears to derive from.
Edited by JimSuperSix on Tuesday 8th October 11:00
Other than when the left foot is hovering over the brake pedal, no one seems to even claim any kind performance advantage and logically it is at best the same and probably slightly inferior for most people. Having done both RFB remains the best overall.
The other downsides are:
Better muscle memory and more consistency across vehicles and transmission types.
the loss of use of the left leg to brace.
According to Mercedes increased braking distance and possible damage to systems and a don't do it from Nissan and BMW. I suspect it will be a common theme.
Some motoring and safety bodies around the world say its not a good idea. But to be fair they seem to say because there is a risk of the right foot hitting the accelerator. In most modern autos that's not such an issue but it has caused problems with runaway Lexus BMWs etc and it does add to my first downside.
Edited by Graveworm on Tuesday 8th October 16:43
JimSuperSix said:
NewUsername said:
bad company said:
OnTheEdge said:
I really can't see any compelling reason to left foot brake on the road, certainly no-one has provided anything in this thread apart from personal preference.
You either haven’t read all the thread, haven’t understood it or refuse to believe what people are saying.Edited by JimSuperSix on Tuesday 8th October 15:29
NewUsername said:
JimSuperSix said:
NewUsername said:
bad company said:
OnTheEdge said:
I really can't see any compelling reason to left foot brake on the road, certainly no-one has provided anything in this thread apart from personal preference.
You either haven’t read all the thread, haven’t understood it or refuse to believe what people are saying.Edited by anonymous-user on Tuesday 8th October 15:29
But if you are desperate for some validation by an expert (or whatever it is you feel you need) here's a video with it all explained by a person who is I assume a rally driver or rally instructor about how its a very good thing to do even on the road.
I expect though that this is not valid as he's not measured the improved stopping distances with a tape measure?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Lx8d2rZxvU
And some links with the pros and cons:
https://www.roadandtrack.com/car-culture/a21561899...
https://speedsecrets.com/driving-tips/the-pros-con...
https://driver61.com/uni/left-foot-braking/
https://leftfootbraking.org/index.cfm
And in fact it turns out there IS data:
https://www.thrillist.com/cars/nation/left-foot-br...
"A brilliant study from the University of Iowa establishes total driver reaction time as 2.2 seconds, and finds that the average driver will begin lifting his or her foot off the accelerator 0.96 seconds after the need arises. That means that the act of moving your foot over to the left, then pushing down on the brake pedal, requires an additional 1.24 seconds for that 2.2-second total. That's huge."
"At 70mph, you cover 102ft, 8in per second. Over the course of the 68 hundredths of a second that a right-foot braker wastes, his or her car travels a full 70ft. Amazingly, that number (in feet) is going to remain tied to your speed in miles per hour. Going 45mph? You're saving 45ft with your left foot in an emergency,"
https://www.thrillist.com/cars/nation/left-foot-br...
"A brilliant study from the University of Iowa establishes total driver reaction time as 2.2 seconds, and finds that the average driver will begin lifting his or her foot off the accelerator 0.96 seconds after the need arises. That means that the act of moving your foot over to the left, then pushing down on the brake pedal, requires an additional 1.24 seconds for that 2.2-second total. That's huge."
"At 70mph, you cover 102ft, 8in per second. Over the course of the 68 hundredths of a second that a right-foot braker wastes, his or her car travels a full 70ft. Amazingly, that number (in feet) is going to remain tied to your speed in miles per hour. Going 45mph? You're saving 45ft with your left foot in an emergency,"
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