RE: Alpine | PH Meets
Discussion
Great post!
I cant really say I have noticed the indicator stalks in my cars much! The tyre fitter said the Aston had a Mondeo one - I wouldn't have a clue never having been in one... I do know how it handles on the limit though (superbly!) and that a cold start up can make the hairs on my arms stand up
The parts bin thing is more tittle tattle fuelled by handbags really!
I cant really say I have noticed the indicator stalks in my cars much! The tyre fitter said the Aston had a Mondeo one - I wouldn't have a clue never having been in one... I do know how it handles on the limit though (superbly!) and that a cold start up can make the hairs on my arms stand up
The parts bin thing is more tittle tattle fuelled by handbags really!bcr5784 said:
Compared with such major expensive design choices, using a few Renault switches really is (or should be) considered down in the noise.
Not only that, but what does it matter if it is standard Renault gear? It's been engineered so it'll last 20 years reliably. It works perfectly. I actually think their stereo nubbin is better than a lot of steering wheel controls.If it ever does break you'll be able to buy a new one from Renault or find one in thousands of breaker's yards across the world. Would you rather have some unobtanium switchgear that doesn't last, and costs 5 billionty pounds or is just NLA in a few years?
Just a typical Schmee... head response. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T-reEOxzJCE
Schmed said:
Alpine friends ! Good to see you guys still arguing about Clio parts and luggage space 
You're back again we can't keep you away, Is there no one on the 718 section of the forum? Probably out doing a sound checks, just seeing if it improves with age.I am loving my Alpine and I haven't yet felt the need to pop over to the Porsche threads to have a dig.
anonymous said:
[redacted]
I seem to remember this kind of remark before about other Renault-sport or Alpine products; I suppose you think this Dieppe built Renault is powered by an engine 'derived from a hatchback' to quote your words exactly (in fact it has 4 cylinders, 8 valves & even pushrod operation) so that it cannot be any good? Do you want to reconsider?
The car above has a powertrain made up of Renault parts available in the late 1970's, a 'hatchback derived' engine bolted to a 5 speed gearbox from a Renault 30TX and laid out longitudinally in reference to the car being built for competition with no regard to safety nor convenience.
Similarly, the current A110 uses the best available parts from the Renault group but places the emphasis as a road car with regard to safety and convenience including a transverse mounted powertrain from a 'hatchback'
There isn't the difference here you suggest but your reference to it also suggests that you consider it important. Why is that?
anonymous said:
[redacted]
According to Porsche the 981 is 40% aluminium. There are 3 reasons why the Alpine is 300+ (not 200) kg lighter 1) More aluminium
2) The Cayman is essentially a Boxster with a roof and has pretty much all of the stiffening needed to make the Boxster (commendably) stiff - when it is inappropriate in a coupe
3) Alpine are fanatical about weight reduction - regretably Porsche aren't.
Frankly I don't care if it's hatchback derived or not. There might be valid debate about whether it's as nice a powerplant as the 981 (but it is undoubtedly a more effective one) - but I don't think there is that much independent argument about whether it's nicer than the (bespoke) 718/4.
Edited by bcr5784 on Thursday 10th October 21:49
Edited by bcr5784 on Thursday 10th October 21:53
anonymous said:
[redacted]
You refer to fanboys not being objective but you appear to lack objectivity yourself,Firstly the 718 Engine is actually derived loosely from a VW Beetle engine, hardly exotic.
Secondly the 981 and 718 are platforms designed to be used in the Boxster and Cayman and fherefore extra weight is built in to the design, it’s a commercial compromise not an optimised design. They also share a front section with the 911, again for commercial reasons not for optimisation. Spending megabucks doesn’t in itself make a better design if the brief says it got to work for 3 different models.
The Alpine does use the Renaults parts for economic reasons but the whole ethos and design is about weight saving optimisation.
It’s for that reason it doesn’t need a 6 cylinder engine, a lighter 4 cylinder engine is right for the vehicle, there is ample performance.
The Alpine is also a very efficient design, less weight less power, more fuel efficiency, what’s not to like.
I think the big shame is Porsche will not emulate it because they could never make it commercially viable. Porsche are very clever at marketing but every new model gets more and more bloated, that’s why the old ones are the most enjoyable to drive.
anonymous said:
[redacted]
I thought the 718 with the 4cyl engine weighs roughly the same as the 981? Give or take 20kg?Someone on here will no doubt check that but if I have remembered correctly then I guess putting in a different engine might not lead to those drastic weight gains or losses.
According to Porsche the base 718 is 1440 kg as opposed to the Alpine being about 1110kg, given they both have 4 cylinder engine where actually is all the weight if it isn’t in the bodyshell.
That’s a difference of 330 kg or put another way it’s about 30% heavier,
And that weight is before you add all the essential options you have to add to the Porsche.
That’s a difference of 330 kg or put another way it’s about 30% heavier,
And that weight is before you add all the essential options you have to add to the Porsche.
anonymous said:
[redacted]
Likewise your belief that the chassis of the 981 is comparable to the Alpine in terms of weight.Every design is a compromise, the perfect design from a performance point of view could well lead to compromises in terms of packaging or make it unaffordable. I don’t think any Alpine owners believe it’s perfect just a very well judge balance of compromises that does what it was designed to do very effectively.
anonymous said:
[redacted]
We had this argument before - the Cayman weighs the same as the Boxster. Either the Boxster is very floppy (which it isn't - 17000nm/degree) or the Cayman is heavier than it needs to be. A coupe will always be significantly lighter or stiffer weight for weight (or have serious access problems like an Elise or Caterham) than an open car - that's just basic structual design . Forget Porsche claimed weights (before WLTP) they were fancyfull. Independent weights in the 981 era showed them to be (spec for spec) 300kg+ heavier than the Alpine ACTUALLY is. Since WLTP that has been confirmed with 718s also being 300kg+ heavier.in the past the Cayster may have seemed reasonably light compared with its even more lardy competition - but the Alpine has moved the goalposts.
Edited by bcr5784 on Thursday 10th October 22:40
Edited by bcr5784 on Thursday 10th October 22:42
anonymous said:
[redacted]
The base Cayman 981 weighs 1398kg before options whereas the top spec Alpine Premier weighed 1110kg.Which bit of the Porsche being lardy are you trying to convince me isn't true.
The fact that is its 20cm longer to facilitate a bigger engine which it needs because of its weight.
It's pretty obvious that the extra weight comes from the bodyshell not the engine, as the 718 has a smaller engine and got heavier.
The Alpine doesn't need to be re-engineered to be longer and have 6 cylinder engine in it, whereas the Porsche could do with losing some weight.
Don't get me wrong I don't dislike the Cayman but losing weight would have a made it a far superior car. It just would not have made economic sense for Porsche as most of their buyers don't care.
anonymous said:
[redacted]
I've not been "terribly defensive" - I asked a question, and you offered a solution, though one that'd make the Alpine much heavier, much more expensive, and (for the 6 option) bigger, which I'd suggest goes against everything it aims for. No need, then, to be so pointy about it, we're just having a conversation.As I've mentioned, I ended up between an Evora and the A110. I do think the Evora sounds a bit better, but the A110 engine certainly isn't without character. It definitely doesn't sound like a typical hatchback.
Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff