RE: Five things I learned from going to Wales Rally GB
Discussion
mstrbkr said:
Did the BBC do that? I think swisstoni's response was because the BBC perhaps had nothing to do with it, and it was Ecclestone and Sky that took it from free to air TV.
I enjoyed the 90 mins of live WRC coverage on Sunday, but found it by pure chance.
The coverage-sharing deal that preceded the full transfer to Sky was struck because the BBC didn't want sole rights to go to a terrestrial competitor. Channel 4 (jointly with Channel 5, IIRC) wanted to take the rights in their entirety, but the BBC split it with Sky instead. And then within a season or two BBC decided they didn't want it at all.I enjoyed the 90 mins of live WRC coverage on Sunday, but found it by pure chance.
Anyway, agree with what everyone else has said, and I've never actually sat stage side (I know, I know...) - Group B may be remembered as spectacular but they wouldn't see which way one of these modern cars went.
swisstoni said:
Dear Sport Administrators,
If you want to get your sport highlighted, sell the rights to the Beeb, not broadcasters watched by 12 people.
RedBull TV is available for free on almost anything that has internet and their coverage is great, been enjoying it since the new WRC cars came in. If you want to get your sport highlighted, sell the rights to the Beeb, not broadcasters watched by 12 people.
Decided to go try this for myself the first time a couple of years ago, thought about buying a van or something to sleep in but went posh and stayed in a B&B. This meant super early starts but not so bad when you get to hammer along some amazing welsh roads. Meant a long walk from the back of the stage carparks but we left plenty of time and always found a good vantage point, all in all was one of the best motorsport things I've seen, definitely keen to go again.
After watching the rallying from the Lombard RAC days, Network Q and now I've seen the difference over the years, the group 4, group B and the McRae and Burns days, but those early days the rally GB was all over Britain and we used to buy our rally pack ( remember those) plane our stages and route for the rally then set off for four days of rallying, a couple of stages in Wales, then head up to grizedale, over to north north Yorkshire for a few stages and a trip over the border into the Scottish stage's, but that was the days when petrol was cheap and entry to stages was pay per car and not per person, I've still got tickets from the Lombard RAC days with prices per car of £2! I've been to the Wales rally GB a couple of times, but now I don't go into the forest due to a now disability, but things still look the same, plan your stages and route, get there very early and watch the action. The rally cars these days are very fast and are good to watch at full chat, would be nice to see a few more car maker enter to make it more interesting and also get it back on terrestrial TV instead of having to pay for it or watch Welsh TV of the coverage but not understand a word there talking about! I downloaded red bull and watched coverage on that and a lot of very good clips on YouTube. I miss getting out a watching it, but I'm afraid my old legs won't let me walk far these days.
RB5Steve said:
After watching the rallying from the Lombard RAC days, Network Q and now I've seen the difference over the years, the group 4, group B and the McRae and Burns days, but those early days the rally GB was all over Britain and we used to buy our rally pack ( remember those) plane our stages and route for the rally then set off for four days of rallying, a couple of stages in Wales, then head up to grizedale, over to north north Yorkshire for a few stages and a trip over the border into the Scottish stage's, but that was the days when petrol was cheap and entry to stages was pay per car and not per person, I've still got tickets from the Lombard RAC days with prices per car of £2! I've been to the Wales rally GB a couple of times, but now I don't go into the forest due to a now disability, but things still look the same, plan your stages and route, get there very early and watch the action. The rally cars these days are very fast and are good to watch at full chat, would be nice to see a few more car maker enter to make it more interesting and also get it back on terrestrial TV instead of having to pay for it or watch Welsh TV of the coverage but not understand a word there talking about! I downloaded red bull and watched coverage on that and a lot of very good clips on YouTube. I miss getting out a watching it, but I'm afraid my old legs won't let me walk far these days.
I know what you mean, Steve...On the point of variety, I was trying to do a snapshot of different eras to look at the number / type of memorable cars involved, from when I first went to the Lombard RAC (late 70s) to now:
Late 1970s:
Ford Escort
Renault Alpine
Saab 96 V4
Opel Manta / Ascona
Toyota Celica
Various Datsuns (240Z, Violet etc)
Fiat 131
Minis
Lancia Stratos (my favourite!)
Porsche 911
Vauxhall Chevette HS
1980s:
Audi quattro
Lancia 037
Toyota Celica
Peugeot 205 T16
Lancia Delta S4 / Integrale
Ford Sierra Cosworth / Sapphire 4x4
BMW M3
Vauxhall Astra
Metro 6R4
Renault 5 Turbo
Rover Vitesse
Saab 900 Turbo
Nissan 240RS
Ford RS200
1990s / 2000s:
Subaru Legacy
Subaru Impreza
Mitsubishi Lancer Evo etc
Ford Focus
Peugeot 206
Citroen C4
F2 / Kit Cars
Last few years:
Hyundai iWhatever
VW Polo
Minis
Toyota Yaris
Ford Fiesta
Citroen C3
Skoda Fabia
While far from an exhaustive list (and with apologies to fans of other stuff I have missed and oddball one-offs - remember Francis Tuthill's VW Beetle, and the Trabant?), this is my recollection of memorable, numerous cars over the last 40 or so years.
What it tells me is that we have far less variety than we used to enjoy. For me, a large part of the joy of watching live rallying was the variety of cars and, indeed, driving abilities and characters, that used to enter. I was 100m from the tree Tony Pond hit in Knowsley Safari Park (it's on YouTube); my brother and I have helped roll Colin McRae out of a ditch in Wales; my camera was smashed by a lump of ice thrown from Hannu Mikkola's quattro in Clocaenog and I saw Tommi Makkinen remove the rear wheel of his Mitsubishi by hitting a concrete block after slipping on oil spilled by a Hillman Imp at Millbrook. I also saw the last homologated Stratos share the start ramp with a Peugeot 604 Diesel in Chester and limped miles into a stage in 2013 with a broken toe to watch the action. I have camped overnight in the middle of forests in all sorts of practical cars: Fiat X1/9, Peugeot 106 Rallye, TVR S2, Saab 900 Turbo (actually that was really comfortable!) and an Isuzu Trooper.
As with most things these days, there seems to be a bit too much added complexity which dilutes the viewing spectacle a bit. Yes, the cars are technologically fantastic and way, way quicker and more efficient through stages than even the best Group B cars, but to me they lack visual drama and sound boring.
If the variety of entries was better, and the whole event less of an ordeal for me to contemplate with 2 young children in tow, I'd consider going back. But as has been said above, I didn't know the event was on until 2 days before it started and haven't seen any of it on TV.
Also, bring back the night stages!
Max_Torque said:
I stopped going to rallies after they began to look like a procession of identical 3 mass produced cars driving along.
What stopped us going was the big change with health and safety(I can obviously understand why but it ruined the atmosphere a fair bit for me). When we first used to go you could stand pretty much anywhere(within reason), then we went one year and everything was cordened off and you were miles away from the action. Shame. 
Jon_S_Rally said:
Good little piece. As I have said many times on this forum, you really need to see these cars in real life to appreciate just how special they are.
Special maybe, but sadly still very uninteresting to many rally fans 
Jon_S_Rally said:
So many just sit back and criticise the WRC, going on endlessly about "the good old days", wheeling out endless "it's not been the same since the end of Group B" and all that other cliched rubbish. If you actually venture out and watch them in the metal, you soon realise that they are talking rubbish.
Have seen them, and they are still uninteresting in the grand scheme of rallying. The exact thing wrong with them is highlighted in your next paragraph:Jon_S_Rally said:
The cars are absolute monsters
Couldn't give a toss how much of a monster they are. I want cars I can relate to and are far more grass roots in appearance and design. Personally I'm not promoting the Group B era either. For me it was what was Group A, before, after and during the Group B era. All of the modern "formula" rally cars all look too much the same, all look horrific, all sound the same and all appear to drive very similar. If it wasn't for the paint schemes you'd hardly know which one was going past. That is what is boring about them, no innovation, no variation. Basically, once you've seen one go past, the rest will not be anymore interesting. In past times there was great variety and array of sights and sounds. Making each car an individual spectacle to see and hear. It's not just WRC that is inflicted, any race series that is turned into a "formula" by the regulations usually ends up being utter rubbish and a shadow of it's former self. Even extreme motorsports like monster truck racing is so much less interesting these days, because they are all purpose built to a set of regs, rather than basing the builds on production vehicles. It is the regulations that make WRC boring, as it results in uninteresting cars.
So much so, I'd rather watch a car going half the speed on the same surfaces if it was a more interesting to watch and listen too. Ultimate speed really isn't and shouldn't be the main driver for making rallying interesting. It's a bit like just making music louder and louder, even if it's rubbish music.
Jon_S_Rally said:
and we are going through one of the most competitive and exciting eras of the sport we've seen in many, many years. It makes F1 look like watching paint dry.
So you will deride F1, but not let anyone have the same view of WRC...... 
bloody good job too as there were quite a few sheep on the road.article said:
My rallying era is soundtracked by Propaganda's Duel and has Tony Mason standing in a dark and drizzly Grizedale
Yes! Exactly this. Loved watching the rallying BBC coverage in the 1980s-90s as a kid.The Lombard RAC rally (later rebranded to Network Q rally) was a much bigger deal in the British sporting calendar back then. Times change, as others have already said.
Max_Torque said:
I stopped going to rallies after they began to look like a procession of identical 3 mass produced cars driving along.
If you want a proper following, something to really get behind, they need to bring back the fun and sportsmanship, rather than just concentrate on speed and money.
For example, i have driven for 4 hours across the UK to watch Andy Burtons Peugeot Cosworth, just the hear how it sounds at max attack. Yeah, the current crop of carbon copy cars sound ok, in bangy rough kind of way, but they are nothing like proper rally cars used to be:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J2IK1lACvj0
The fact the car is entirely home made, by a farmer from Herefordshire is just the icing on the cake!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dr7vHp_676U
When the MSA banned these cars (mainly because they were faster than the WRC based cars that cost 4 times more and were driven mostly by rich, but not so talented folk (<< controversial!!)) i gave up going to events, because once you've seen one WRC car, you've seen them all........
Also one of the most memorable cars I've seen in the forests- a fantastic thing. Along side 6R4's, Mk2's, a 911, rear engine Nova's, Lancia Delta's and Stratos's- all sorts of wonderful machinery driven by different wheels, different engines, to different tunes.If you want a proper following, something to really get behind, they need to bring back the fun and sportsmanship, rather than just concentrate on speed and money.
For example, i have driven for 4 hours across the UK to watch Andy Burtons Peugeot Cosworth, just the hear how it sounds at max attack. Yeah, the current crop of carbon copy cars sound ok, in bangy rough kind of way, but they are nothing like proper rally cars used to be:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J2IK1lACvj0
The fact the car is entirely home made, by a farmer from Herefordshire is just the icing on the cake!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dr7vHp_676U
When the MSA banned these cars (mainly because they were faster than the WRC based cars that cost 4 times more and were driven mostly by rich, but not so talented folk (<< controversial!!)) i gave up going to events, because once you've seen one WRC car, you've seen them all........
Then it morphed into 90% Subarus and Evo's- still exciting, but not the same.
It was on ITV4 - the commentators were woeful, essentially have a chat while a car (on mute as filmed from a helicopter) drove the stage.
As a kid I grew up not far from Kielder. The cars used to drive between there and Hamsterly past my house in the middle of nowhere.
I recall one night about 93/94 during the rally I stood outside my house in the pitch black about 5 or 6pm as the cars approached, maybe a mile away as they came down from Wark. Full light pods on, they passed my place (small B road) at probably 90-100. I stood at the roadside in my school uniform, giving them the thumbs up. Every one of the first 20 or so cars past have me a massive series of burst on the horn.
It stays with me to this day and is one of the reasons I bought an Evo VI in my early 20s. I’ve moved on and become a bit more respectable these days but still have the Evo and won’t ever sell it.
As a kid I grew up not far from Kielder. The cars used to drive between there and Hamsterly past my house in the middle of nowhere.
I recall one night about 93/94 during the rally I stood outside my house in the pitch black about 5 or 6pm as the cars approached, maybe a mile away as they came down from Wark. Full light pods on, they passed my place (small B road) at probably 90-100. I stood at the roadside in my school uniform, giving them the thumbs up. Every one of the first 20 or so cars past have me a massive series of burst on the horn.
It stays with me to this day and is one of the reasons I bought an Evo VI in my early 20s. I’ve moved on and become a bit more respectable these days but still have the Evo and won’t ever sell it.
Zad said:
Unfortunately, rallying just had no mainstream media presence now. It was much easier to like the sport when Rally GB really was GB and not just a bit of Wales; English Midlands, North East, Scotland, Lake District, Wales, West Midlands and back to start. You actually stood a chance of being able to go to a venue that wasn't hundreds of miles away, to see cars you could actually buy from the main dealer (albeit modified). That is, if you weren't snowed in at the end of November.
The cars these days do nothing for me which is one of the reasons I don't watch, don't care how fast a Polo or a Yaris is as it's not a car I'm interested in buying the road version of, imo they should have a minimum length rule so we get some decent cars featured. The Fiesta is probably the best looking out of the bunch and closest to the road car, the power produced is pretty impressive at 240hp per litre but you can't get anywhere near that out of the showroom which is a shame.
A few years back the Government changed the law on road rallies, I was hoping this would open up more of the rest of the country up for rallys and not just a part of Wales.
Wales would be more welcoming if the Police didn't focus so much of their limited resources on draconian anti speeding measures.
Good write up. Enthusiasm shines through. As it does throughout the thread. Some good anecdotage too.
I went to Cirencester Park in the early 70s. Blomqvist: Saab, mental. Clark: Escort, hair adverts. Stratos: Space age.
Some of that may be false memory, did they ever run together?
I commute past the park entrance now and the advert poster for next week's visit hasn't changed much, still has a Celica GT4 on it I think!
I went to Cirencester Park in the early 70s. Blomqvist: Saab, mental. Clark: Escort, hair adverts. Stratos: Space age.
Some of that may be false memory, did they ever run together?
I commute past the park entrance now and the advert poster for next week's visit hasn't changed much, still has a Celica GT4 on it I think!
CS Garth said:
It was on ITV4 - the commentators were woeful, essentially have a chat while a car (on mute as filmed from a helicopter) drove the stage.
As a kid I grew up not far from Kielder. The cars used to drive between there and Hamsterly past my house in the middle of nowhere.
I recall one night about 93/94 during the rally I stood outside my house in the pitch black about 5 or 6pm as the cars approached, maybe a mile away as they came down from Wark. Full light pods on, they passed my place (small B road) at probably 90-100. I stood at the roadside in my school uniform, giving them the thumbs up. Every one of the first 20 or so cars past have me a massive series of burst on the horn.
It stays with me to this day and is one of the reasons I bought an Evo VI in my early 20s. I’ve moved on and become a bit more respectable these days but still have the Evo and won’t ever sell it.
Awesome story, that's the spirit! As a kid I grew up not far from Kielder. The cars used to drive between there and Hamsterly past my house in the middle of nowhere.
I recall one night about 93/94 during the rally I stood outside my house in the pitch black about 5 or 6pm as the cars approached, maybe a mile away as they came down from Wark. Full light pods on, they passed my place (small B road) at probably 90-100. I stood at the roadside in my school uniform, giving them the thumbs up. Every one of the first 20 or so cars past have me a massive series of burst on the horn.
It stays with me to this day and is one of the reasons I bought an Evo VI in my early 20s. I’ve moved on and become a bit more respectable these days but still have the Evo and won’t ever sell it.
Dan
CS Garth said:
It was on ITV4 - the commentators were woeful, essentially have a chat while a car (on mute as filmed from a helicopter) drove the stage.
It's odd, how in the modern world of compact high quality digital cameras, with long lasting batteries. That the actual video coverage can be so poor. Watch coverage from the 70s and 80s (ignoring the types of cars, just the coverage) and it was so much better and informative.untakenname said:
The cars these days do nothing for me which is one of the reasons I don't watch, don't care how fast a Polo or a Yaris is as it's not a car I'm interested in buying the road version of, imo they should have a minimum length rule so we get some decent cars featured.
Can Toyota make a rally car with a GT86 bodyshell rather than a Yaris? It would look a lot cooler. How much weight/aerodynamic difference would there be?
swisstoni said:
Dear Sport Administrators,
If you want to get your sport highlighted, sell the rights to the Beeb, not broadcasters watched by 12 people.
Sadly the BBC just aren't interested in this sort of thing.If you want to get your sport highlighted, sell the rights to the Beeb, not broadcasters watched by 12 people.
andyj007 said:
sad thing is i used to love my rallying, all the way back to 1985, im into motorsport , and didnt even realise this was on... just gets lost on unpopular channels .. such a shame,, went 4 years ago the stages were brilliant, until we went to a designated rally fest at some castle.. utter rubbish, cars forced to go through cones very slowly.. vowed never to waste my money again.. on a hyped up spectator stage.. get out in the forest thats where it happens
I think we need the mix of stage to be honest. While the spectator stages are nowhere near as good as the stages in the forests, they are much easier to access and, if rallying wants to attract new fans, it needs to be accessible.yonex said:
I’d like to see a rally sometime. Always thought the drivers were on a different level.
It's getting easier now. There are closed-road events popping up all over the UK now, so probably something that's not impossible for you to get to.Max_Torque said:
I stopped going to rallies after they began to look like a procession of identical 3 mass produced cars driving along.
If you want a proper following, something to really get behind, they need to bring back the fun and sportsmanship, rather than just concentrate on speed and money.
For example, i have driven for 4 hours across the UK to watch Andy Burtons Peugeot Cosworth, just the hear how it sounds at max attack. Yeah, the current crop of carbon copy cars sound ok, in bangy rough kind of way, but they are nothing like proper rally cars used to be:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J2IK1lACvj0
The fact the car is entirely home made, by a farmer from Herefordshire is just the icing on the cake!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dr7vHp_676U
When the MSA banned these cars (mainly because they were faster than the WRC based cars that cost 4 times more and were driven mostly by rich, but not so talented folk (<< controversial!!)) i gave up going to events, because once you've seen one WRC car, you've seen them all........
The fun and sportsmanship is doing fine. As I said above, get involved with some of the closed-road events and you will see that.If you want a proper following, something to really get behind, they need to bring back the fun and sportsmanship, rather than just concentrate on speed and money.
For example, i have driven for 4 hours across the UK to watch Andy Burtons Peugeot Cosworth, just the hear how it sounds at max attack. Yeah, the current crop of carbon copy cars sound ok, in bangy rough kind of way, but they are nothing like proper rally cars used to be:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J2IK1lACvj0
The fact the car is entirely home made, by a farmer from Herefordshire is just the icing on the cake!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dr7vHp_676U
When the MSA banned these cars (mainly because they were faster than the WRC based cars that cost 4 times more and were driven mostly by rich, but not so talented folk (<< controversial!!)) i gave up going to events, because once you've seen one WRC car, you've seen them all........
It was a shame that Burton's car got banned, but I do understand why the MSA (as was) were nervous about such home-built cars. If someone built something in their shed and didn't know what they were doing, the consequences could be very serious. Rallying in Europe is in rude health and they don't allow such cars so, while I loved the Burton creation, cars like that aren't essential to the spectacle.
philcray said:
Didn't watch an actual race but I was in Portugal 5 or 6 years ago and saw an advert for the opening event for the WRC to be held in Portimao. I drove there with the family and there was virtually nobody around, after about 20 minute we heard the distinctive rally car sound and wandered around the back of the hotel (the big one on the harbour) where all the cars arrived and parked up on the access road. This included the works teams cars and numerous independents. Most of the cars were open to look in and chat to the drivers, it was a big surprise and probably like the olden days of motor sport.
Back at the hotel lobby it was now getting busier, all the drivers were wandering around and you could get autographs, pictures etc. The official stuff then started a bit later as you see on tv with the cars driving up onto the ramp. After that they roared off and parked up just round the corner, we had a chat with Mads Ostberg and some of the other Scandi drivers as my wife is Swedish....
All in all, a great experience and recommended if you happen to be in Portugal hopefully it is still as laid back!
Our eldest meeting the pit lane girls!
This is what makes rallying almost unique. It is so open compared to most motorsport, even at the upper levels.Back at the hotel lobby it was now getting busier, all the drivers were wandering around and you could get autographs, pictures etc. The official stuff then started a bit later as you see on tv with the cars driving up onto the ramp. After that they roared off and parked up just round the corner, we had a chat with Mads Ostberg and some of the other Scandi drivers as my wife is Swedish....
All in all, a great experience and recommended if you happen to be in Portugal hopefully it is still as laid back!
Our eldest meeting the pit lane girls!
spikyone said:
The coverage-sharing deal that preceded the full transfer to Sky was struck because the BBC didn't want sole rights to go to a terrestrial competitor. Channel 4 (jointly with Channel 5, IIRC) wanted to take the rights in their entirety, but the BBC split it with Sky instead. And then within a season or two BBC decided they didn't want it at all.
Anyway, agree with what everyone else has said, and I've never actually sat stage side (I know, I know...) - Group B may be remembered as spectacular but they wouldn't see which way one of these modern cars went.
Indeed. People get very excited about Group B, but they had been surpassed by the early 90s in terms of speed.Anyway, agree with what everyone else has said, and I've never actually sat stage side (I know, I know...) - Group B may be remembered as spectacular but they wouldn't see which way one of these modern cars went.
RB5Steve said:
After watching the rallying from the Lombard RAC days, Network Q and now I've seen the difference over the years, the group 4, group B and the McRae and Burns days, but those early days the rally GB was all over Britain and we used to buy our rally pack ( remember those) plane our stages and route for the rally then set off for four days of rallying, a couple of stages in Wales, then head up to grizedale, over to north north Yorkshire for a few stages and a trip over the border into the Scottish stage's, but that was the days when petrol was cheap and entry to stages was pay per car and not per person, I've still got tickets from the Lombard RAC days with prices per car of £2! I've been to the Wales rally GB a couple of times, but now I don't go into the forest due to a now disability, but things still look the same, plan your stages and route, get there very early and watch the action. The rally cars these days are very fast and are good to watch at full chat, would be nice to see a few more car maker enter to make it more interesting and also get it back on terrestrial TV instead of having to pay for it or watch Welsh TV of the coverage but not understand a word there talking about! I downloaded red bull and watched coverage on that and a lot of very good clips on YouTube. I miss getting out a watching it, but I'm afraid my old legs won't let me walk far these days.
The All Live coverage is very good too. You have to pay £10 a month, but it gives you basically every stage live.Turbobanana said:
I know what you mean, Steve...
On the point of variety, I was trying to do a snapshot of different eras to look at the number / type of memorable cars involved, from when I first went to the Lombard RAC (late 70s) to now:
Late 1970s:
Ford Escort
Renault Alpine
Saab 96 V4
Opel Manta / Ascona
Toyota Celica
Various Datsuns (240Z, Violet etc)
Fiat 131
Minis
Lancia Stratos (my favourite!)
Porsche 911
Vauxhall Chevette HS
1980s:
Audi quattro
Lancia 037
Toyota Celica
Peugeot 205 T16
Lancia Delta S4 / Integrale
Ford Sierra Cosworth / Sapphire 4x4
BMW M3
Vauxhall Astra
Metro 6R4
Renault 5 Turbo
Rover Vitesse
Saab 900 Turbo
Nissan 240RS
Ford RS200
1990s / 2000s:
Subaru Legacy
Subaru Impreza
Mitsubishi Lancer Evo etc
Ford Focus
Peugeot 206
Citroen C4
F2 / Kit Cars
Last few years:
Hyundai iWhatever
VW Polo
Minis
Toyota Yaris
Ford Fiesta
Citroen C3
Skoda Fabia
While far from an exhaustive list (and with apologies to fans of other stuff I have missed and oddball one-offs - remember Francis Tuthill's VW Beetle, and the Trabant?), this is my recollection of memorable, numerous cars over the last 40 or so years.
What it tells me is that we have far less variety than we used to enjoy. For me, a large part of the joy of watching live rallying was the variety of cars and, indeed, driving abilities and characters, that used to enter. I was 100m from the tree Tony Pond hit in Knowsley Safari Park (it's on YouTube); my brother and I have helped roll Colin McRae out of a ditch in Wales; my camera was smashed by a lump of ice thrown from Hannu Mikkola's quattro in Clocaenog and I saw Tommi Makkinen remove the rear wheel of his Mitsubishi by hitting a concrete block after slipping on oil spilled by a Hillman Imp at Millbrook. I also saw the last homologated Stratos share the start ramp with a Peugeot 604 Diesel in Chester and limped miles into a stage in 2013 with a broken toe to watch the action. I have camped overnight in the middle of forests in all sorts of practical cars: Fiat X1/9, Peugeot 106 Rallye, TVR S2, Saab 900 Turbo (actually that was really comfortable!) and an Isuzu Trooper.
As with most things these days, there seems to be a bit too much added complexity which dilutes the viewing spectacle a bit. Yes, the cars are technologically fantastic and way, way quicker and more efficient through stages than even the best Group B cars, but to me they lack visual drama and sound boring.
If the variety of entries was better, and the whole event less of an ordeal for me to contemplate with 2 young children in tow, I'd consider going back. But as has been said above, I didn't know the event was on until 2 days before it started and haven't seen any of it on TV.
Also, bring back the night stages!
In terms of current recent cars, I'd update your list a bit:On the point of variety, I was trying to do a snapshot of different eras to look at the number / type of memorable cars involved, from when I first went to the Lombard RAC (late 70s) to now:
Late 1970s:
Ford Escort
Renault Alpine
Saab 96 V4
Opel Manta / Ascona
Toyota Celica
Various Datsuns (240Z, Violet etc)
Fiat 131
Minis
Lancia Stratos (my favourite!)
Porsche 911
Vauxhall Chevette HS
1980s:
Audi quattro
Lancia 037
Toyota Celica
Peugeot 205 T16
Lancia Delta S4 / Integrale
Ford Sierra Cosworth / Sapphire 4x4
BMW M3
Vauxhall Astra
Metro 6R4
Renault 5 Turbo
Rover Vitesse
Saab 900 Turbo
Nissan 240RS
Ford RS200
1990s / 2000s:
Subaru Legacy
Subaru Impreza
Mitsubishi Lancer Evo etc
Ford Focus
Peugeot 206
Citroen C4
F2 / Kit Cars
Last few years:
Hyundai iWhatever
VW Polo
Minis
Toyota Yaris
Ford Fiesta
Citroen C3
Skoda Fabia
While far from an exhaustive list (and with apologies to fans of other stuff I have missed and oddball one-offs - remember Francis Tuthill's VW Beetle, and the Trabant?), this is my recollection of memorable, numerous cars over the last 40 or so years.
What it tells me is that we have far less variety than we used to enjoy. For me, a large part of the joy of watching live rallying was the variety of cars and, indeed, driving abilities and characters, that used to enter. I was 100m from the tree Tony Pond hit in Knowsley Safari Park (it's on YouTube); my brother and I have helped roll Colin McRae out of a ditch in Wales; my camera was smashed by a lump of ice thrown from Hannu Mikkola's quattro in Clocaenog and I saw Tommi Makkinen remove the rear wheel of his Mitsubishi by hitting a concrete block after slipping on oil spilled by a Hillman Imp at Millbrook. I also saw the last homologated Stratos share the start ramp with a Peugeot 604 Diesel in Chester and limped miles into a stage in 2013 with a broken toe to watch the action. I have camped overnight in the middle of forests in all sorts of practical cars: Fiat X1/9, Peugeot 106 Rallye, TVR S2, Saab 900 Turbo (actually that was really comfortable!) and an Isuzu Trooper.
As with most things these days, there seems to be a bit too much added complexity which dilutes the viewing spectacle a bit. Yes, the cars are technologically fantastic and way, way quicker and more efficient through stages than even the best Group B cars, but to me they lack visual drama and sound boring.
If the variety of entries was better, and the whole event less of an ordeal for me to contemplate with 2 young children in tow, I'd consider going back. But as has been said above, I didn't know the event was on until 2 days before it started and haven't seen any of it on TV.
Also, bring back the night stages!
Hyundai i20
VW Polo
Mini
Toyota Yaris
Ford Fiesta
Citroen C3
Citroen DS3
Skoda Fabia
Peugeot 208
Opel Adam
Toyota GT86
Abarth 124
Porsche 997
Things aren't quite as bad on that score as some would make out. If you go to lower level rallies, you will see even more of course, though you then run into the issue of there being far too many old cars. The challenge is, the FIA introduced the "R" categories (R1, R2, R3, R4, R5) which limited people to buying a kit to build a car, or buying a complete car. To complete on an international rally, you need a car that fits into one of those categories.
Also, WRGB ran into the dark this year, on the Saturday.
cerb4.5lee said:
What stopped us going was the big change with health and safety(I can obviously understand why but it ruined the atmosphere a fair bit for me). When we first used to go you could stand pretty much anywhere(within reason), then we went one year and everything was cordened off and you were miles away from the action. Shame.
You still can in reality. While there are designated spectator zones, you can still walk beyond them and stand in other places. Sadly, irresponsible spectators have meant that greater control is necessary.300bhp/ton said:
Special maybe, but sadly still very uninteresting to many rally fans
Sadly, a lot of rally fans are allergic to change 
300bhp/ton said:
Couldn't give a toss how much of a monster they are. I want cars I can relate to and are far more grass roots in appearance and design. Personally I'm not promoting the Group B era either. For me it was what was Group A, before, after and during the Group B era. All of the modern "formula" rally cars all look too much the same, all look horrific, all sound the same and all appear to drive very similar. If it wasn't for the paint schemes you'd hardly know which one was going past. That is what is boring about them, no innovation, no variation. Basically, once you've seen one go past, the rest will not be anymore interesting. In past times there was great variety and array of sights and sounds. Making each car an individual spectacle to see and hear.
It's not just WRC that is inflicted, any race series that is turned into a "formula" by the regulations usually ends up being utter rubbish and a shadow of it's former self. Even extreme motorsports like monster truck racing is so much less interesting these days, because they are all purpose built to a set of regs, rather than basing the builds on production vehicles. It is the regulations that make WRC boring, as it results in uninteresting cars.
So much so, I'd rather watch a car going half the speed on the same surfaces if it was a more interesting to watch and listen too. Ultimate speed really isn't and shouldn't be the main driver for making rallying interesting. It's a bit like just making music louder and louder, even if it's rubbish music.
Don't get me wrong, Group A was brilliant, but it was doomed from the start. Producing homologation specials is expensive, so you're immediately limiting the number of manufacturers that will be involved. The idea that a Group A car is like a road car is also a bit misleading in reality. I own a Group A car. The only standard part is the engine block. They were nothing like road cars.It's not just WRC that is inflicted, any race series that is turned into a "formula" by the regulations usually ends up being utter rubbish and a shadow of it's former self. Even extreme motorsports like monster truck racing is so much less interesting these days, because they are all purpose built to a set of regs, rather than basing the builds on production vehicles. It is the regulations that make WRC boring, as it results in uninteresting cars.
So much so, I'd rather watch a car going half the speed on the same surfaces if it was a more interesting to watch and listen too. Ultimate speed really isn't and shouldn't be the main driver for making rallying interesting. It's a bit like just making music louder and louder, even if it's rubbish music.
The current WRC regs are far from perfect and I was a sceptic when they first appeared (I still am, as the cars are too expensive) but you can't deny that they have revitalised the series. It's better than it's been in years. Yes, the cars look similar and sound similar, but doesn't that just reflect the realities of the automotive industry? We have reached the optimum shape for road cars in terms of balancing aero and interior space and the industry has adopted small-CC turbo engines. The regs exist to enhance competition and encourage participation. If you make it too open, the costs will spiral and teams will leave.
The Group A era is my favourite, but it's in the past and was unsustainable. Rose-tinted specs won't save the sport sadly.
300bhp/ton said:
So you will deride F1, but not let anyone have the same view of WRC......
People can think whatever they like about the WRC. If they don't like it, then good luck to them. However, this is a discussion forum and, if people are making inaccurate statements, or I can point them in the direction of something that might answer their questions or allow them to enjoy rallying more, then I am happy to do so. You are very welcome to disagree 
The Great Orme stage ended up being cancelled due to rough seas as safety divers couldn't be positioned around the Orme to rescue anybody who crashed into the sea.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-49948472
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-49948472
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