RE: Porsche Taycan 4S launched with 288-mile range
Discussion
RacerMike said:
And also...strictly speaking a Turbofan jet engine isn't actually a turbo charged jet engine.
But it is a fan powered by a jet engine, also called a turbojet. So a jet engine is a turbo with its own combustion chamber, sort of. (I think you know this, just interesting to dissect the meanings).
Onehp said:
RacerMike said:
And also...strictly speaking a Turbofan jet engine isn't actually a turbo charged jet engine.
But it is a fan powered by a jet engine, also called a turbojet. So a jet engine is a turbo with its own combustion chamber, sort of. (I think you know this, just interesting to dissect the meanings).
So really. Any car that has Turbo branding, by the original definition of the technology, is incorrect. A 911 Turbo should really be a 911 Supercharger..
RacerMike said:
Driven like a tit, a Taycan will probably do 160-180 miles on a charge (i.e. 90mph on the motorway). Given that London to Manchester is 209 miles and a 4hr journey, and goes directly past the Ionity Supercharger in MK that will do the full 60miles charge in 5mins job, I don't really see it being a huge issue for anyone who wants to buy into the EV thing. Of course the refrigerator salesmen who live in Exeter and travel to and from their office in Blackpool every day will be forced to stick with their £19,000 Insignia for a while longer sadly.
I agree, I often do over 300km/day, but I know that's not for everyone, I've had an older model S 70, which did about 330km indicated. I visited a SuC about twice a month in that one. I bought myself a 100D, which I believe would be plenty for 99.9% of all people.I'm pretty sure that ~200 miles/>300km is good enough for the bulk of drivers. It'll be a bit more of a hassle for longer trips depending on charging infrastructure, but that's once a year for most people.
ZesPak said:
RacerMike said:
Driven like a tit, a Taycan will probably do 160-180 miles on a charge (i.e. 90mph on the motorway). Given that London to Manchester is 209 miles and a 4hr journey, and goes directly past the Ionity Supercharger in MK that will do the full 60miles charge in 5mins job, I don't really see it being a huge issue for anyone who wants to buy into the EV thing. Of course the refrigerator salesmen who live in Exeter and travel to and from their office in Blackpool every day will be forced to stick with their £19,000 Insignia for a while longer sadly.
I agree, I often do over 300km/day, but I know that's not for everyone, I've had an older model S 70, which did about 330km indicated. I visited a SuC about twice a month in that one. I bought myself a 100D, which I believe would be plenty for 99.9% of all people.I'm pretty sure that ~200 miles/>300km is good enough for the bulk of drivers. It'll be a bit more of a hassle for longer trips depending on charging infrastructure, but that's once a year for most people.
RDMcG said:
AmosMoses said:
I can see this model being a real Tesla killer, and I’m a fan of Tesla!
yep..agree!HOWEVER ... has anyone been on the configurator and spec'd the 4S? There's no way it leaves the showroom for less than £100k whereas much of that stuff Tesla chucks in for free (you'd think Porsche would throw in heated seats and wheel for that price!). The Taycan actually starts to make the Model S/X look reasonably good value in comparison.
Auto updates like Tesla - NO.
Self driving software like Tesla - NO
Range of a Tesla - NO
Charging network like Tesla - NO
battery tech/experience of Tesla - NO
Other fun features (even if some are gimicky like the games or whoopee cushion) - NO
Don't get me wrong, I'm a massive Porsche fan and great that they and other car makers are doing EVs because it'll raise everyone's game and that's gotta be good for the consumer (and planet). I have £100k to spend on an EV and it's certainly not going to be the Taycan.
As above, it commands a serious premium even if it's base price isn't that far off.
I can imagine it won't be hard to add another 30% to the base price of a Porsche, a 4S is 112k. That is partial leather (4k if you want leather), things add up really really quickly, I've configured one with things that are standard on a 93k MS 100D, leaving everything out that is debatable and it adds up to at least 20k eur in options.
Short list:
Glass roof, bigger battery, seat memory, heated seats and steering wheel, upgraded sound system (not the most expensive one), adaptive cruise control, rear camera, keyless entry,...
Cross-shopping an i pace, model S and e-tron was refreshing. The MS 100D came at 93k EUR, whereas the Jaguar at 80k EUR. But I think no ipace will be sold for under 90k and at that point, the practicality (range, SuC, size) of the MS just won out.
The e-tron was even worse.
I can imagine it won't be hard to add another 30% to the base price of a Porsche, a 4S is 112k. That is partial leather (4k if you want leather), things add up really really quickly, I've configured one with things that are standard on a 93k MS 100D, leaving everything out that is debatable and it adds up to at least 20k eur in options.
Short list:
Glass roof, bigger battery, seat memory, heated seats and steering wheel, upgraded sound system (not the most expensive one), adaptive cruise control, rear camera, keyless entry,...
Cross-shopping an i pace, model S and e-tron was refreshing. The MS 100D came at 93k EUR, whereas the Jaguar at 80k EUR. But I think no ipace will be sold for under 90k and at that point, the practicality (range, SuC, size) of the MS just won out.
The e-tron was even worse.
I'm impressed by Tesla, but this is the first EV that's excited me.
Perhaps it's because I'm mad on the brand and, as others have said, I'm expecting a certain level of quality which I hear isn't necessarily apparent in other cars.
This or a Taycan that's cheaper again will do me I think. I've used range anxiety as the excuse for years now but, when I come to think of it, it's a non-issue. I bimble back and forth to the office and might do 100 miles at most in one trip either to see clients or at the weekend. My folks are only just over 100 miles away.
Though I'll probably struggle to wrestle Mrs PB out of an SUV and the dog won't be so happy about the boot in this. So talk on this thread of a Macan EV sounds interesting. I figured an e-tron ought to get a look when I come to swap out of our Disco Sport in 2021.
Perhaps it's because I'm mad on the brand and, as others have said, I'm expecting a certain level of quality which I hear isn't necessarily apparent in other cars.
This or a Taycan that's cheaper again will do me I think. I've used range anxiety as the excuse for years now but, when I come to think of it, it's a non-issue. I bimble back and forth to the office and might do 100 miles at most in one trip either to see clients or at the weekend. My folks are only just over 100 miles away.
Though I'll probably struggle to wrestle Mrs PB out of an SUV and the dog won't be so happy about the boot in this. So talk on this thread of a Macan EV sounds interesting. I figured an e-tron ought to get a look when I come to swap out of our Disco Sport in 2021.
hu8742 said:
Auto updates like Tesla - NO.
Self driving software like Tesla - NO
Range of a Tesla - NO
Charging network like Tesla - NO
battery tech/experience of Tesla - NO
Other fun features (even if some are gimicky like the games or whoopee cushion) - NO
With the greatest of respect, all of those points are tenuous at best, and it misses the main point which is that the majority buy cars for subjective reasons. Of course there are plenty of Tesla fans who love the tech, believe the (level 2 at best) autonomous driving is some sort of space age tech that no one else has, and will use all sorts of stats to 'prove' how much better the range is, but in all honesty, they're as likely to buy a Porsche Taycan as a 74 year old pensioner from Luton is to buy a Ford Focus to replace his 20th Vauxhaul Astra.Self driving software like Tesla - NO
Range of a Tesla - NO
Charging network like Tesla - NO
battery tech/experience of Tesla - NO
Other fun features (even if some are gimicky like the games or whoopee cushion) - NO
Model S sales are a struggle at the moment, and the Taycan isn't going to help that.
RacerMike said:
Of course there are plenty of Tesla fans who love the tech, believe the (level 2 at best) autonomous driving is some sort of space age tech that no one else has, and will use all sorts of stats to 'prove' how much better the range is, but in all honesty, they're as likely to buy a Porsche Taycan as a 74 year old pensioner from Luton is to buy a Ford Focus to replace his 20th Vauxhaul Astra.
So people who bought a 100k electric vehicle 5 years ago and are fan of the car are unlikely to buy this Taycan?Really?
ZesPak said:
RacerMike said:
Of course there are plenty of Tesla fans who love the tech, believe the (level 2 at best) autonomous driving is some sort of space age tech that no one else has, and will use all sorts of stats to 'prove' how much better the range is, but in all honesty, they're as likely to buy a Porsche Taycan as a 74 year old pensioner from Luton is to buy a Ford Focus to replace his 20th Vauxhaul Astra.
So people who bought a 100k electric vehicle 5 years ago and are fan of the car are unlikely to buy this Taycan?Really?
RacerMike said:
ZesPak said:
RacerMike said:
Of course there are plenty of Tesla fans who love the tech, believe the (level 2 at best) autonomous driving is some sort of space age tech that no one else has, and will use all sorts of stats to 'prove' how much better the range is, but in all honesty, they're as likely to buy a Porsche Taycan as a 74 year old pensioner from Luton is to buy a Ford Focus to replace his 20th Vauxhaul Astra.
So people who bought a 100k electric vehicle 5 years ago and are fan of the car are unlikely to buy this Taycan?Really?
Plate spinner said:
RacerMike said:
ZesPak said:
RacerMike said:
Of course there are plenty of Tesla fans who love the tech, believe the (level 2 at best) autonomous driving is some sort of space age tech that no one else has, and will use all sorts of stats to 'prove' how much better the range is, but in all honesty, they're as likely to buy a Porsche Taycan as a 74 year old pensioner from Luton is to buy a Ford Focus to replace his 20th Vauxhaul Astra.
So people who bought a 100k electric vehicle 5 years ago and are fan of the car are unlikely to buy this Taycan?Really?
A fair number of the Teslerati on here sound much like the Macolytes of old - their chosen brand can do no wrong, even if someone has sound, logical reasons for preferring an alternative
Like the folks who don't seem to understand that it is possible for a 280 mile range vehicle to be entirely not suitable for someone who regularly does 250 mile round trips, but can't recharge at their destination, or at least not without a 200 metre charge cable!
I do get that there are a lot of folks for whom a Tesla either meets their needs, or is the closest they can get at the moment, it is just the rabid fanbois who get up my nose...
Gojira said:
Not sure about that
A fair number of the Teslerati on here sound much like the Macolytes of old - their chosen brand can do no wrong, even if someone has sound, logical reasons for preferring an alternative
Hmm, most owners I know are actually very reasonable people.A fair number of the Teslerati on here sound much like the Macolytes of old - their chosen brand can do no wrong, even if someone has sound, logical reasons for preferring an alternative
I was a Jaguar owner, and it was actually more the i Pace that got me to the Model S. Comparing them, the i pace and e tron were a very hard sell.
Similar again with the Taycan, as I've tried to configure it and you'd need another 20k in options on it.
As for your other comment, it's what I said above. I temporary had a 70D with ~10% more range than my commute. That wasn't ideal and I'd never recommend that. Similar to not being able to charge your EV at home.
ZesPak said:
Gojira said:
Not sure about that
A fair number of the Teslerati on here sound much like the Macolytes of old - their chosen brand can do no wrong, even if someone has sound, logical reasons for preferring an alternative
Hmm, most owners I know are actually very reasonable people.A fair number of the Teslerati on here sound much like the Macolytes of old - their chosen brand can do no wrong, even if someone has sound, logical reasons for preferring an alternative
I was a Jaguar owner, and it was actually more the i Pace that got me to the Model S. Comparing them, the i pace and e tron were a very hard sell.
Similar again with the Taycan, as I've tried to configure it and you'd need another 20k in options on it.
As for your other comment, it's what I said above. I temporary had a 70D with ~10% more range than my commute. That wasn't ideal and I'd never recommend that. Similar to not being able to charge your EV at home.
And I certainly -didn't- mean to include you in the loud group!
When I ordered my XE at the beginning of this year, I did look at the iPace, and if the list price had been in the same area as the XE with all the toys that I specced, I'd have been tempted apart from the range.
Realistically EVs are the future, and there is a strong likelihood that the replacement for the XE will be electric, given halfway plausible rates of improvement.
Aren't we all comparing the Taycan to the wrong Tesla? It's more like the model 3 in size. I was really hoping that Porsche would knock it out of the park on range, but coming in at a real world 250-ish with the big battery looks a bit sad against the M3LR, doesn't it? Sure, the Porsche is an entirely different perceived quality proposition, but it's twice the price of the 3 for similar performance. Is the badge really worth that much, given that none of these EVs really seem to be full-on driver's cars?
Before it launched, and based on rumour, I thought I was going to order a Taycan; in fact I'd assumed it was a no-brainer. I'm not, and I'm disappointed by both the price/value equation and the range. We either need twice the battery capacity (which is what, 3-4 years away?) or twice the efficiency (harder to do, although our i3 is at 16kWh/100km, but that's mostly city).
If I had to buy an EV for long journeys tomorrow, I think I'd buy a model 3 LR. Which is a sad admission coming from someone with quite as much Porsche in their bloodstream as me.
Before it launched, and based on rumour, I thought I was going to order a Taycan; in fact I'd assumed it was a no-brainer. I'm not, and I'm disappointed by both the price/value equation and the range. We either need twice the battery capacity (which is what, 3-4 years away?) or twice the efficiency (harder to do, although our i3 is at 16kWh/100km, but that's mostly city).
If I had to buy an EV for long journeys tomorrow, I think I'd buy a model 3 LR. Which is a sad admission coming from someone with quite as much Porsche in their bloodstream as me.
I was thinking that earlier, but the Model 3 is the value proposition. And the model S is supposed to be overpriced, but the porsche makes a Model S look like good value.
As someone who bought a new MS this year, I'm both relieved and disappointed.
It reminds me of a colleague who said : for the first time ever, I don't know what car to buy now. After 4 years with his model S. So he's just keeping it, I think he got a pre order in for the Y.
I do hope that there is some genuine competition in five years for a spacious luxury electric vehicle, also with the charging infrastructure. One of the problems will be costs, me and many others can justify it because of tax breaks, but these will probably perish in the next couple of years.
As someone who bought a new MS this year, I'm both relieved and disappointed.
It reminds me of a colleague who said : for the first time ever, I don't know what car to buy now. After 4 years with his model S. So he's just keeping it, I think he got a pre order in for the Y.
I do hope that there is some genuine competition in five years for a spacious luxury electric vehicle, also with the charging infrastructure. One of the problems will be costs, me and many others can justify it because of tax breaks, but these will probably perish in the next couple of years.
Plate spinner said:
I think some of the Tesla diehards are just new-tech diehards. If something comes out that had better tech, they’ll switch.
Owners/prospective owners just want decent viable choice I think. Which is why companies like rivian get our attention.
There's also plenty of model S owners on their second or third car looking for a change etc.
I don't think it's too much to ask a company like Porsche to offer something competitive, sure we expect some compromises but half the real world range is a tough sell
RobDickinson said:
I don't think it's too much to ask a company like Porsche to offer something competitive, sure we expect some compromises but half the real world range is a tough sell
I wouldn't even mind that, but it's that AND way more expensive.Like I said, I optioned a 4S like my model S is optioned (without AP), and it came to 93k vs 133k.v :/
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