RE: Swindon Powertrain launches crate EV motor
Discussion
Black S2K said:
Max_Torque said:
Why wouldn't you just buy an number of second hand EDU's from an existing crashed EV? For example, get an i3 EDU, that's got 130 kW as standard, and with a bit of extra voltage could easily get probably 160 kW peak without too much effort........
How practicable would that really be for a DIYer?I have visions of people with a dangerous amount of knowledge blowing themselves up
At least with an ICE, getting the AFR wrong only blows the engine up.
The biggest challenge is actually simply fitting in enough batteries in a safe / sensible place in a car not designed for an EV powertrain. Most of the EV conversions i've seen are horribly compromised in this respect (and some of them lethally compromised....)
It's hardly a "crate motor" that's just a motor and inverter combination with a couple of coolant pipes and a few HV cables popped on.
Pretty sure it's just the TM4 CO150 inverter with a fairly standard looking motor+transmission unit similar to something like the Brusa DTS01-96.
They need to integrate the inverter into the motor housing at the very least otherwise you might as well just buy the bits yourself...
Pretty sure it's just the TM4 CO150 inverter with a fairly standard looking motor+transmission unit similar to something like the Brusa DTS01-96.
They need to integrate the inverter into the motor housing at the very least otherwise you might as well just buy the bits yourself...
ChocolateFrog said:
A1VDY said:
Not suitable for DIY use.
Qualified electricians only otherwise the A&E's are going to be busy..
If Rich Rebuilds can take a Tesla apart with a kitchen knife then I'm sure it's not beyond the average competent DIYer. Qualified electricians only otherwise the A&E's are going to be busy..
Just avoid touching the sparkly bits with 2 hands.
Needs to wear proper shoes when welding though! :O
tight fart said:
What a great idea to put a bomb, sorry battery in an old car that an impact crumple zone was never a consideration.
I suppose with a sun roof and ejector seat they could work.
Yes, this must ruin the exemplary safety record of say a classic Mini.I suppose with a sun roof and ejector seat they could work.
How or why would a small electric motor for integration projects cost 20 grand ?
ChocolateFrog said:
A1VDY said:
Not suitable for DIY use.
Qualified electricians only otherwise the A&E's are going to be busy..
If Rich Rebuilds can take a Tesla apart with a kitchen knife then I'm sure it's not beyond the average competent DIYer. Qualified electricians only otherwise the A&E's are going to be busy..
Just avoid touching the sparkly bits with 2 hands.
ghost83 said:
80k for an old mini
OR you can buy a mini e fully integrated from mini for half that cost with a warranty
It does look expensive, though electric restomods usually are.OR you can buy a mini e fully integrated from mini for half that cost with a warranty
Not sure the comparison to a mini-e is really any more relevant than to any other small electric car, though, it's got nothing in common with the old car beyond branding and some styling elements.
Go easy on me, the headline grabbed my attention, but I failed to "get it" and I am naturally stupid.
I think they are looking at selling a solution to manufactures not willing to develop their own hybrid/mild hybrid system for inclusion to their offerings?
When I read the headline I was expecting, for someone like me with an interesting older ICE, decent leaps forward to enable the transplant of an EV system in to an existing vehicle (in my case to be done by a specialist).
But, 110hp is that enough and if I have 2 does that make 220hp, how big are they (what room does that leave for batteries, can you split them; engine bay, fuel tank, spare wheel locations) and as said before surely a crate option for batteries that you could combine multiple of would be needed to make this a simple enough integration. Let alone all the other stuff I really don't get.
I hope one day it will be reasonably priced and simple enough to take my 2.5l V6 Nissan Elgrand to a specialist who would rip out all the ICE stuff and put in a crated EV solution. I know there are specialists who may do this already at a price, I just convinced myself at the perceived pace of EV development will this type of conversion ever become more run of the mill, affordable and standardised?
I think they are looking at selling a solution to manufactures not willing to develop their own hybrid/mild hybrid system for inclusion to their offerings?
When I read the headline I was expecting, for someone like me with an interesting older ICE, decent leaps forward to enable the transplant of an EV system in to an existing vehicle (in my case to be done by a specialist).
But, 110hp is that enough and if I have 2 does that make 220hp, how big are they (what room does that leave for batteries, can you split them; engine bay, fuel tank, spare wheel locations) and as said before surely a crate option for batteries that you could combine multiple of would be needed to make this a simple enough integration. Let alone all the other stuff I really don't get.
I hope one day it will be reasonably priced and simple enough to take my 2.5l V6 Nissan Elgrand to a specialist who would rip out all the ICE stuff and put in a crated EV solution. I know there are specialists who may do this already at a price, I just convinced myself at the perceived pace of EV development will this type of conversion ever become more run of the mill, affordable and standardised?
I suspect that its not aimed at the diy car/enthusiast market.
Probably small specialized vehicles, telehandlers,fork lifts,airport service vehicles etc. Hence the lack of battery availability, as this will be for the manufacturer to specify depending on the load/range needed and the vehicle battery layout.
The mini is a showcase for the motors compact size and flexibility.
It is small scale specialized engineering so it isnt going to be cheap, we all used to chuck pintos and rover V8s in cars back in the day as they were making one a minute and therefore cheap.
Probably small specialized vehicles, telehandlers,fork lifts,airport service vehicles etc. Hence the lack of battery availability, as this will be for the manufacturer to specify depending on the load/range needed and the vehicle battery layout.
The mini is a showcase for the motors compact size and flexibility.
It is small scale specialized engineering so it isnt going to be cheap, we all used to chuck pintos and rover V8s in cars back in the day as they were making one a minute and therefore cheap.
Max_Torque said:
Black S2K said:
Max_Torque said:
Why wouldn't you just buy an number of second hand EDU's from an existing crashed EV? For example, get an i3 EDU, that's got 130 kW as standard, and with a bit of extra voltage could easily get probably 160 kW peak without too much effort........
How practicable would that really be for a DIYer?I have visions of people with a dangerous amount of knowledge blowing themselves up
At least with an ICE, getting the AFR wrong only blows the engine up.
The biggest challenge is actually simply fitting in enough batteries in a safe / sensible place in a car not designed for an EV powertrain. Most of the EV conversions i've seen are horribly compromised in this respect (and some of them lethally compromised....)
Probably not hard - if you really know what you are doing.
I agree about the battery packaging in a car that was never designed to take such a dense mass in the first place. Fitting stiffer road springs is not really proper engineering.
Even with proper OEM products, I tend to think that a bespoke 'skateboard' EV plank is preferable to a 'conversion' job. I'm still struggling to get my head around the shared ICE/EV planks that the likes of Volvo & Jaguar are developing.
otolith said:
I should think the best layout for the batteries is entirely implementation dependent. Where you would cram them in any two 60's sportscar restomods or a brand new kit car would all be different.
correct. The issue is that "multiple" battery packs is a complete 'mare in terms of safety and robustness. Having a single, sealed, battery module as per most OE's provides the highest battery security and safety. As soon as you have "remote" strings of batteries, the potential hazards multiply enormously. For example, how are you going to fuse the inter-battery link? (btw, i've never seen this link even fused at-all on any aftermarket conversion....) or how are you going to ensure balanced charging, and what layout of BMS are you going to use. How to you "safe" the battery string, how do you monitor it for isometry.I'm not going to name names, but i looked at a conversion done on a "classic 4x4" by a well regarded UK EV converter, and what i saw horrified me, to the point where i actually refused to even touch the vehicle. For example, they had a DC link cable, which yes, was in a suitable cable spec, but that ran directly over the sharp edge of a piece of chassis metal work,without anything to prevent chaffing. And as the vehicle did not have any onboard isometry, that fault could become lethal at some point in the future without any indication. And that's before you consider any potential accident damage or structural intrusion from a crash pulse etc.
The fundamental risk profile for an EV is so different to that of an ICE (the vehicle is fundamentally extremely safe, and pretty much impossible to actually hurt yourself on, right until it kills you, without any visible warning, stone dead.....) that conventional experience and mitigation is really not applicable. The aftermarket EV conversion industry is completely un-regulated as it stands, with even a basic MOT test entirely unsuitable to pick up even glaring electrical hazards. Unfortunately, i suspect it will take a death or two before that changes........
When retrofitting EV to older cars becomes more commonplace will the public in newer models resent them using the limited amount of EV charging points?
A company needs to produce a cheap 3 phase motor that bolts directly to the bellhousing as that would appeal to DIY'ers.
70KW is enough for an older car conversion to be used in urban areas but you would ideally need more for country roads.
In regards to battery storage dependant on the range this shouldn't be too much of an issue as you now get modular 18650 power packs which can be mounted on the floorpan of most cars keeping the front seats in the same position and just losing a little bit of rear leg height.
There's quite a bit of flexibility with the powertrain for mild hybrids https://x-engineer.org/automotive-engineering/vehi...
A company needs to produce a cheap 3 phase motor that bolts directly to the bellhousing as that would appeal to DIY'ers.
70KW is enough for an older car conversion to be used in urban areas but you would ideally need more for country roads.
In regards to battery storage dependant on the range this shouldn't be too much of an issue as you now get modular 18650 power packs which can be mounted on the floorpan of most cars keeping the front seats in the same position and just losing a little bit of rear leg height.
There's quite a bit of flexibility with the powertrain for mild hybrids https://x-engineer.org/automotive-engineering/vehi...
I can't see insurers being that willing to touch these unless Swindon provide a matching battery pack.
Using a prepackaged lithium pack from a Tesla or Leaf is one thing, but cobbling together your own is a recipe for a very large fire. Look at Hammond on the Grand Tour in Switzerland for instance and one assumes Rimac are a lot more professional that the average DIYer.
I remember when I designed and built my own rally car in the 1980s all they asked for was "what are your qualifications" and an MOT, so I replied B.Sc and M.Sc in engineering, not mentioning it was electronic engineering :-) I suspect they check a lot more nowadays.
Using a prepackaged lithium pack from a Tesla or Leaf is one thing, but cobbling together your own is a recipe for a very large fire. Look at Hammond on the Grand Tour in Switzerland for instance and one assumes Rimac are a lot more professional that the average DIYer.
I remember when I designed and built my own rally car in the 1980s all they asked for was "what are your qualifications" and an MOT, so I replied B.Sc and M.Sc in engineering, not mentioning it was electronic engineering :-) I suspect they check a lot more nowadays.
untakenname said:
A company needs to produce a cheap 3 phase motor that bolts directly to the bellhousing as that would appeal to DIY'ers.
They do for some cars at least :https://www.evwest.com/catalog/index.php?cPath=40
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