RE: Toyota teases new Yaris GR-4

[Onehp]

It will sell in Australia at least. If gt86/BRZ sales are anything to go by, very well also.

[Martingale]

Mintbird said:

surprised a 3 cyl 1.5 is pushing out 261 bhp. thats a highly strung motor.
ID prefer a 4 cylinder tbh... just feels like more potential..

I see this comment a lot, and while I understand the concern, I don't really think it's much of an issue nowadays and more based off myth than actual data/technical.

For example, I'm a fan of the fiesta ST and followed closely the pre launch process, rumours, launch of the mk8 Fiesta ST. Everybody complained and ranted going from a 1.6 four cylinder to a 1.5 three pot would be the end of aftermarket tuning. Well, Revo (a reputable tuner for those who don't know) got OVER 50bhp gain from a simple stage 1 remap. More than you could ever do with the mk7.

Thing is, engine, material, turbo technology, understanding of fluid dynamics with respect to cooling and inlet air flow optimisation have come a long way in the last 20 years yet people are still comparing these latest turbo tech to the old days. Look at the new A45S, over 200bhp PER LITRE, with a factory warranty, madness. More power doesn't automatically mean lower reliability, if the R&D is done right.

I think a company with the budget, reputation and reliability as Toyota will be fine, and I'm sure there is as big or more of a safety margin as any other performance car.

EDIT: Also from what I've read this isn't an engine lifted from a lesser model and boosted to an inch of its life, but a bespoke engine designed for this application and power in mind.

Edited by Martingale on Monday 6th January 14:40

Edited by Martingale on Monday 6th January 14:44

[Martingale]

Elatino1 said:

At £30k for the full on version I would likely be buying. Much more than that (£35k+) will count me out, which is a shame.

Just speculating, but that's extremely unlikely. Say for argument's sake the BBS forged alloys + mechanical diffs front and rear + PS4(S?) tyres come in at £3k. I really don't think the base price will be £27k for the feature list of this car. I would love to be proved wrong though.

Autoexpress say it will be £35k to £40k. Afterall nothing on the market compares to this, I think even at a premium it will sell.

[ecsrobin]

Martingale said:

Just speculating, but that's extremely unlikely. Say for argument's sake the BBS forged alloys + mechanical diffs front and rear + PS4(S?) tyres come in at £3k. I really don't think the base price will be £27k for the feature list of this car. I would love to be proved wrong though.

Autoexpress say it will be £35k to £40k. Afterall nothing on the market compares to this, I think even at a premium it will sell.

Most coverage I’ve seen suggests around £32k minus options which we will find out on Friday. A single LSD and PS3’s with lightweight alloys cost me £3k on my car so I’d like to think £4k for an extra diff would be an acceptable price.

[Onehp]

Martingale said:

Mintbird said:

surprised a 3 cyl 1.5 is pushing out 261 bhp. thats a highly strung motor.
ID prefer a 4 cylinder tbh... just feels like more potential..

I see this comment a lot, and while I understand the concern, I don't really think it's much of an issue nowadays and more based off myth than actual data/technical.

For example, I'm a fan of the fiesta ST and followed closely the pre launch process, rumours, launch of the mk8 Fiesta ST. Everybody complained and ranted going from a 1.6 four cylinder to a 1.5 three pot would be the end of aftermarket tuning. Well, Revo (a reputable tuner for those who don't know) got OVER 50bhp gain from a simple stage 1 remap. More than you could ever do with the mk7.

Thing is, engine, material, turbo technology, understanding of fluid dynamics with respect to cooling and inlet air flow optimisation have come a long way in the last 20 years yet people are still comparing these latest turbo tech to the old days. Look at the new A45S, over 200bhp PER LITRE, with a factory warranty, madness. More power doesn't automatically mean lower reliability, if the R&D is done right.

I think a company with the budget, reputation and reliability as Toyota will be fine, and I'm sure there is as big or more of a safety margin as any other performance car.

EDIT: Also from what I've read this isn't an engine lifted from a lesser model and boosted to an inch of its life, but a bespoke engine designed for this application and power in mind.

Fully agree. Must be something also that 3 cilinders are somehow construed in the mind to be weaker. But the crankshaft is shorter and stiffer/stronger. On motorcycles, a triplet isn't considered worse than a twin or a four. We just aren't used to the idea of a strong three cilinder car engine.

261bhp from a 1.6 (not 1.5) is 163bhp/litre displacement, I don't remember people questioning Honda when the type R does 320hp, moving a heavier car. Evo's long past did more. It's basically the same thing. Moving up, a 3l turbo with 490hp is nothing special today either, Alfa Romeo do more. 4l V8: AMG, McLaren, Ferrari do higher specific outputs. But of course you need to use the right hardware... Ceramic ball bearing turbo is such a nice one someone mentioned in a GR Yaris review iirc. No worries about oil starvation or overheated oil causing issues in the turbo...

Cheers

[Toltec]

Onehp said:

Fully agree. Must be something also that 3 cilinders are somehow construed in the mind to be weaker. But the crankshaft is shorter and stiffer/stronger. On motorcycles, a triplet isn't considered worse than a twin or a four. We just aren't used to the idea of a strong three cilinder car engine.

261bhp from a 1.6 (not 1.5) is 163bhp/litre displacement, I don't remember people questioning Honda when the type R does 320hp, moving a heavier car. Evo's long past did more. It's basically the same thing. Moving up, a 3l turbo with 490hp is nothing special today either, Alfa Romeo do more. 4l V8: AMG, McLaren, Ferrari do higher specific outputs. But of course you need to use the right hardware... Ceramic ball bearing turbo is such a nice one someone mentioned in a GR Yaris review iirc. No worries about oil starvation or overheated oil causing issues in the turbo...

Cheers

The Smart suprex in Brabus version was over 140bhp/l a d could be reliably mapped to over 170bhp/l

Sounds pretty good too.

[Martingale]

ecsrobin said:

Martingale said:

Just speculating, but that's extremely unlikely. Say for argument's sake the BBS forged alloys + mechanical diffs front and rear + PS4(S?) tyres come in at £3k. I really don't think the base price will be £27k for the feature list of this car. I would love to be proved wrong though.

Autoexpress say it will be £35k to £40k. Afterall nothing on the market compares to this, I think even at a premium it will sell.

Most coverage I’ve seen suggests around £32k minus options which we will find out on Friday. A single LSD and PS3’s with lightweight alloys cost me £3k on my car so I’d like to think £4k for an extra diff would be an acceptable price.

Sounds about right, I think that's what realistically the pricing will very close to those figures. £32k base + £4k track pack + ~ £2k for other options (paint/nav/trim bits etc) for around £38k all in.

[ecsrobin]

More information here: https://blog.toyota.co.uk/new-toyota-gr-yaris-forg...

[matrignano]

Love it!

It's a bit of a porker though, almost 1,300kg despite the bespoke (lighter?) 3-door body, aluminium and carbon panels etc?

[Onehp]

Let's see if the 1280kg is kerb or EU weight definition, the latter including 75kg driver.

Slightly confused by the circuit pack, are the limited slip differentials only usefull on track? What does 'performance tuned suspension' actually entail? Harder and lower?

I would have loved the lsd's on a compliant/larger spring travel (with hydraulic bumpstops) suspension...

4wd system looks interesting, from what I read into it, it's a Haldex type but the overgeared rear axle so it can truly push on and thus actively distribute power to the rear...

[matrignano]

Onehp said:

Let's see if the 1280kg is kerb or EU weight definition, the latter including 75kg driver.

I read on another article that it's 1280kg without driver

[Save Ferris]

We've just taken a deposit on one this morning!

[danllama]

Similar power to weight ratio as my MR2 turbo, but 4wd and 4 seats.

Well played Toyota, you've got my attention.

[Onehp]

matrignano said:

Onehp said:

Let's see if the 1280kg is kerb or EU weight definition, the latter including 75kg driver.

I read on another article that it's 1280kg without driver

Probably, on the other had I've seen so many publications confused with different weight definitions, e.g. the Fiesta ST was at launch 75kg heavier than it actually was for too long a time...

Closest 4wd hatch for weight is the Golf R (?) theoretically 1430kg (din kerb weight) but in practice closer to 1500kg... So 200kg thereabouts less, this GR Yaris should not increase much at least as typically there are very few options..

[DaveK-S1]

Isn't the 3 cylinder engine in line with the forthcoming rally regs, i think i saw that the new R5 spec cars have to be 3cyl engine.

[Martingale]

matrignano said:

Love it!

It's a bit of a porker though, almost 1,300kg despite the bespoke (lighter?) 3-door body, aluminium and carbon panels etc?

I'm a bit baffled by this comment.
It's 1280kg WITH a 4WD system. What other 4WD car on the market released in say the last 5 years comes close to this weight?

To put this in perspective the fiesta ST mk8, a car everyone praises for it's 'eager, nifty handling' is 1262kg for the 3 door version and that's FWD only.

For ref, the weight is one of the most important factors for me and literally the deal-breaker on why I didn't go ahead with the ST (it grew by 100kg between mk7 and mk8) and even with this in mind I'm impressed with the 1280kg figure. Realistically I don't think a car manufacturer releasing a 4WD car today that complies with all the safety regs, heavier exhaust for emission and maintaining some sort of practicality can get much lower weight, outside of stripping the seats etc for a track special.

Maybe you should go for the rumoured full carbon chassis version they're considering later on, but then there will be moaning about the price. I guess it's not possible to please everyone.

[cdon]

ecsrobin said:

More information here: https://blog.toyota.co.uk/new-toyota-gr-yaris-forg...

I want one.

Any word on UK price?

[epom]

Martingale said:

matrignano said:

Love it!

It's a bit of a porker though, almost 1,300kg despite the bespoke (lighter?) 3-door body, aluminium and carbon panels etc?

I'm a bit baffled by this comment.
It's 1280kg WITH a 4WD system. What other 4WD car on the market released in say the last 5 years comes close to this weight?

To put this in perspective the fiesta ST mk8, a car everyone praises for it's 'eager, nifty handling' is 1262kg for the 3 door version and that's FWD only.

For ref, the weight is one of the most important factors for me and literally the deal-breaker on why I didn't go ahead with the ST (it grew by 100kg between mk7 and mk8) and even with this in mind I'm impressed with the 1280kg figure. Realistically I don't think a car manufacturer releasing a 4WD car today that complies with all the safety regs, heavier exhaust for emission and maintaining some sort of practicality can get much lower weight, outside of stripping the seats etc for a track special.

Maybe you should go for the rumoured full carbon chassis version they're considering later on, but then there will be moaning about the price. I guess it's not possible to please everyone.

Well said.

[will-w]

Save Ferris said:

We've just taken a deposit on one this morning!

I have just been advised that it is not possible to pre-order these at the moment, and that it is not scheduled for UK launch until the second half of 2020?

[will-w]

cdon said:

I want one.

Any word on UK price?

It's roughly 28k for the base car in Japan, so I'd expect between 30 and 35 for the base and performance cars in the UK