RE: Lamborghini Urus Performante in the works
Discussion
768c said:
Again, relative to a Lamborghini estate car, instead of an SUV.
Amazingly people on this thread don't read the whole post. That 4 different posters not understanding what I'm saying. You could almost say it was my fault...
If Lamborghini had made an estate car it would have been better from a sports car point of view because sports cars fundamentally have a lower c of g. My point is Lamborghini have had to work backwards from an SUV to make that, but I don't personally think it has worked because the result is an ugly looking, beefy, heavy car - again, relatively, for those hard of reading -
You can't make a sports car out of an estate, even if it existed. You can make a fast family car out of one sure, but you can also do that out of a SUV. Which form factor you prefer is totally subjective, exactly like the way it looks. I think it looks good but I appreciate others have different views. Amazingly people on this thread don't read the whole post. That 4 different posters not understanding what I'm saying. You could almost say it was my fault...
If Lamborghini had made an estate car it would have been better from a sports car point of view because sports cars fundamentally have a lower c of g. My point is Lamborghini have had to work backwards from an SUV to make that, but I don't personally think it has worked because the result is an ugly looking, beefy, heavy car - again, relatively, for those hard of reading -
NDNDNDND said:
Pistonheads: being obtuse matters
It is perhaps nit-picking, but I doubt many people would drive a car which corners as quickly as a Urus and think it feels really lumbering. I mean, it's a quick car, and this version will no doubt be quicker still. These high performance estates (eg E63 or RS6) won't exactly disappear into the distance and, in reality, if you're reaching the limits of the Urus's ability on the public road you're probably driving too quickly anyway.Don't get me wrong, personally I would rather have an estate as well, I really would....but I just think SUVs have a bad rep on here for no real reason. The people who buy these cars on the whole, be they normal SUVs or performance ones, don't track them.
nickfrog said:
768c said:
Again, relative to a Lamborghini estate car, instead of an SUV.
Amazingly people on this thread don't read the whole post. That 4 different posters not understanding what I'm saying. You could almost say it was my fault...
If Lamborghini had made an estate car it would have been better from a sports car point of view because sports cars fundamentally have a lower c of g. My point is Lamborghini have had to work backwards from an SUV to make that, but I don't personally think it has worked because the result is an ugly looking, beefy, heavy car - again, relatively, for those hard of reading -
You can't make a sports car out of an estate, even if it existed. You can make a fast family car out of one sure, but you can also do that out of a SUV. Which form factor you prefer is totally subjective, exactly like the way it looks. I think it looks good but I appreciate others have different views. Amazingly people on this thread don't read the whole post. That 4 different posters not understanding what I'm saying. You could almost say it was my fault...
If Lamborghini had made an estate car it would have been better from a sports car point of view because sports cars fundamentally have a lower c of g. My point is Lamborghini have had to work backwards from an SUV to make that, but I don't personally think it has worked because the result is an ugly looking, beefy, heavy car - again, relatively, for those hard of reading -
I'm not knocking the end result of the Urus in terms of engineering, what I am knocking is having one in the first place.
768c said:
I'm saying an estate is closer to a sports car than an SUV is. Isn't it?
In relative terms, hardly IMO. A RS6 for instance is so far from what a sports car is that adding a other 5% or 10% distance becomes utterly irrelevant. Particularly for a car that is not remotely supposed to be a sports car, like the Urus.nickfrog said:
768c said:
I'm saying an estate is closer to a sports car than an SUV is. Isn't it?
In relative terms, hardly IMO. A RS6 for instance is so far from what a sports car is that adding a other 5% or 10% distance becomes utterly irrelevant. Particularly for a car that is not remotely supposed to be a sports car, like the Urus.Where are you getting '5-10%' from? You've made that up whilst still saying it is closer...but 'irrelevant'.
768c said:
nickfrog said:
768c said:
I'm saying an estate is closer to a sports car than an SUV is. Isn't it?
In relative terms, hardly IMO. A RS6 for instance is so far from what a sports car is that adding a other 5% or 10% distance becomes utterly irrelevant. Particularly for a car that is not remotely supposed to be a sports car, like the Urus.Where are you getting '5-10%' from? You've made that up whilst still saying it is closer...but 'irrelevant'.
Dave Hedgehog said:
why? there are buyers who exist in the intersection of both on a venn diagram
I doubt there are many buyers in this segment comparing the COG of a SUV with that of an estate or checking Nurburgring times before deciding on a purchase. In my experience, and what has been demonstrated on this thread, is that if you are an estate person or an suv person, hence the strong opinions. TyrannosauRoss Lex said:
768c said:
nickfrog said:
768c said:
I'm saying an estate is closer to a sports car than an SUV is. Isn't it?
In relative terms, hardly IMO. A RS6 for instance is so far from what a sports car is that adding a other 5% or 10% distance becomes utterly irrelevant. Particularly for a car that is not remotely supposed to be a sports car, like the Urus.Where are you getting '5-10%' from? You've made that up whilst still saying it is closer...but 'irrelevant'.
Shooting brake is another word for estate, so yes.
768c said:
Forget the RS6, I'm talking about a Porsche Panamera over a Cayenne for example. Or imagine a Ferrari GTC4, with a slightly longer wheelbase and two extra doors, against a Urus.
Where are you getting '5-10%' from? You've made that up whilst still saying it is closer...but 'irrelevant'.
Ah OK you never meant estate. Where are you getting '5-10%' from? You've made that up whilst still saying it is closer...but 'irrelevant'.
I'll explain my view again. For me a RS6 or a Panamera are very very far from what a sports car is, so far in fact that if you raise their already high CoG or their already high weight even more, it only distance it from a sports car by a small margin. Not that Urus suspension kinematics won't be adapted nor once again, that the Urus has ever been designed as sport car, it's a luxury fast family road car. So yes, utterly irrelevant. But despite all that it can still do a sub 8. I find that astonishing.
I now understand that you think a Panamera is a sort of sports car.
nickfrog said:
768c said:
Forget the RS6, I'm talking about a Porsche Panamera over a Cayenne for example. Or imagine a Ferrari GTC4, with a slightly longer wheelbase and two extra doors, against a Urus.
Where are you getting '5-10%' from? You've made that up whilst still saying it is closer...but 'irrelevant'.
Ah OK you never meant estate. Where are you getting '5-10%' from? You've made that up whilst still saying it is closer...but 'irrelevant'.
I'll explain my view again. For me a RS6 or a Panamera are very very far from what a sports car is, so far in fact that if you raise their already high CoG or their already high weight even more, it only distance it from a sports car by a small margin. Not that Urus suspension kinematics won't be adapted nor once again, that the Urus has ever been designed as sport car, it's a luxury fast family road car. So yes, utterly irrelevant. But despite all that it can still do a sub 8. I find that astonishing.
I now understand that you think a Panamera is a sort of sports car.
Oh, and I did mean an estate. I meant the estate version of the Panamera...which is an estate.
A longer GTC4 with 2 more doors and glass beyond the c pillar would be an estate.
It's really not that difficult to understand.
I don't like it because it's starting point is really, really ugly and like it's cousins it's a parts bin crash of engineering, materials and settings.....because profit.
I don't like the breed, because I have no need for one, other cars can do the same stuff without relying on computers to keep it all together, it's a needless result of bigger is better, and a drain on resources....all that tech and advancement in safety etc....shoved into 2-3 tonne things...and height generally screws with road driving as an enjoyable pursuit....my own personal goal.
Every review I see/read of these performance SUV's says they're astonishing.... and all get caveated that when a corner appears you can feel physics take a hold.
I'm sure there are SUVs smaller than estates/hatches, some faster, some more economical...I'm thinking more gene
rally as a market sector.
I have a car for fun road/track use, and a car for family/tip/shops/school/off road use
I really couldn't think of anything worse than one that could do, or try to do, both.
The issue is when someone from one camp tries to convert a believer from the other....
They're not for me, at all...especially one that's been tuned specifically for track work (an assumption based on the Performante moniker)...but if they or this is for you, congrats, very happy for you....at that level of cost I'd also assume it wouldn't be the only vehicle in the garage anyway....
I don't like the breed, because I have no need for one, other cars can do the same stuff without relying on computers to keep it all together, it's a needless result of bigger is better, and a drain on resources....all that tech and advancement in safety etc....shoved into 2-3 tonne things...and height generally screws with road driving as an enjoyable pursuit....my own personal goal.
Every review I see/read of these performance SUV's says they're astonishing.... and all get caveated that when a corner appears you can feel physics take a hold.
I'm sure there are SUVs smaller than estates/hatches, some faster, some more economical...I'm thinking more gene
rally as a market sector.
I have a car for fun road/track use, and a car for family/tip/shops/school/off road use
I really couldn't think of anything worse than one that could do, or try to do, both.
The issue is when someone from one camp tries to convert a believer from the other....
They're not for me, at all...especially one that's been tuned specifically for track work (an assumption based on the Performante moniker)...but if they or this is for you, congrats, very happy for you....at that level of cost I'd also assume it wouldn't be the only vehicle in the garage anyway....
768c said:
Panamera is an Estate. Well, the estate version is..
Shooting brake is another word for estate, so yes.
The Panamera isn't an estate, it's barely got any more load capacity than the saloon! Shooting brake isn't an estate. It has just 2 doors for starters. Shooting brake is another word for estate, so yes.
I appreciate that you have later said a longer GTC with 2 extra doors.... But again you're making cars up.
TyrannosauRoss Lex said:
768c said:
Panamera is an Estate. Well, the estate version is..
Shooting brake is another word for estate, so yes.
The Panamera isn't an estate, it's barely got any more load capacity than the saloon! Shooting brake isn't an estate. It has just 2 doors for starters. Shooting brake is another word for estate, so yes.
Shooting brake has just two doors? What are you referring to there?
The Panamera is an estate - who said a smaller load capacity estate isn't an estate?
What is it then? A hatchback? The point still stands, despite all these ridiculous semantics.
TyrannosauRoss Lex said:
The Panamera isn't an estate, it's barely got any more load capacity than the saloon! Shooting brake isn't an estate. It has just 2 doors for starters.
I appreciate that you have later said a longer GTC with 2 extra doors.... But again you're making cars up.
Oh, so you sneaked that last line in. Yes, I never said it existed.I appreciate that you have later said a longer GTC with 2 extra doors.... But again you're making cars up.
Do you even know what you're supposedly arguing about?
768c said:
TyrannosauRoss Lex said:
The Panamera isn't an estate, it's barely got any more load capacity than the saloon! Shooting brake isn't an estate. It has just 2 doors for starters.
I appreciate that you have later said a longer GTC with 2 extra doors.... But again you're making cars up.
Oh, so you sneaked that last line in. Yes, I never said it existed.I appreciate that you have later said a longer GTC with 2 extra doors.... But again you're making cars up.
Do you even know what you're supposedly arguing about?
The fact that these have sold more than the GTC4 says they've probably done the right thing, too.
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