RE: 'Extreme' McLaren Elva revealed with 815hp

[Maldini35]

sr.guiri said:

Dear Pistonheads.

Can you please put this write-up on the Russian/South American/Mexican/Arab version of your website, because nobody gives a st about this in Europe or North America. We don't spend this sort of money on something so ostentatious

Thanks!

Dear Pistonheads,

Please ignore this miserable get.

Thanks!

[Terminator X]

Baddie said:

Circa 4 litre twin turbo V8’s producing > 650 hp are an achievement, but no longer uncommon. The Germans have a few of them, some with cranks that make them sound better. McLaren’s engine has, since the beginning, come across as a device, rather than something to savour.

I’m not a massive fan of Ferrari’s turbo V8 either; makes the cars even faster, but to what end?

I see loads of them as I live near a dealer, they sound great I can assure you.

TX.

[GranCab]

[quote=Maldini35

Just because he succeeded in making his point don’t now pretend to be somehow above it all.
Your post reads like something from the mouth of David Brent or Alan Partridge.
And like both of them you have a startling lack of self awareness.
I guess that’s why you actually posted a photo of your bank balance on this forum.
Unbelievable...

Edited by Maldini35 on Wednesday 13th November 17:35

[/quote]

Thank you for the compliment.....

Alan Partridge and David Brent are two characters created by two extremely talented and funny actors.

And regarding my wealth ... get over it or get some therapy.

[oedipus]

McLaren never jump the shark but they do expend so much energy in pursuit of vaunting a ferocious sea-based predator for no discernible reason.

[Maldini35]

GranCab said:

Thank you for the compliment.....

Alan Partridge and David Brent are two characters created by two extremely talented and funny actors.

And regarding my wealth ... get over it or get some therapy.

QED

[BVB]

Seems to be an attempt at Ferraru's Icon series. Seriously isn't happening though.

[suffolk009]

Love it.

Best looking front end of any McLaren since the F1.

[robinessex]

If I had £1.4m, I'd have one of these made for me :-

[Gameface]

Who posted a photo of their bank balance?

[Meridius]

Whoever thought McLaren would be one being added to the ever growing list of manufacturers PH hates

[Ian974]

Everyone here would turn their nose up at a Zonda as well, seeing as it's only using an engine from a lowly s class...

[Wammer]

JxJ Jr. said:

Wammer said:

Ferrari still use pretty much the same engine in the 488 that they did in the F355...

Yeah. But they at least chuck it at a different end of the car every now and again.

Erm the F355, 360, 430, 458 and 488 have all been mid engined V8's so im not sure what your point is?

[Wammer]

GranCab said:

JxJ Jr. said:

Wammer said:

Ferrari still use pretty much the same engine in the 488 that they did in the F355...

Yeah. But they at least chuck it at a different end of the car every now and again.

@ Wammer the 355 engine is a V8 built by Ferrari, as is the 488 engine ... that's just about all they have in common.

They are basically the same architecture. Do you really think that Ferrari build a new a Engine every time they bring out a new Model.

Its the same way that Lamborghini put the same V12 in the Muira all the way through to the Murcielago

[Wammer]

D4rez said:

JxJ Jr. said:

Yeah. But they at least chuck it at a different end of the car every now and again.

What just to keep you interested? It certainly wouldn’t be for dynamics or packaging or weight. I think they’ll pass.

I don’t understand why Ferrari get so much love for the same strategy of rebodied Series production cars yet Mclaren don’t - in both cases they will feel very different which is the important part. Yes Ferrari have the Tipo 140 V12 that has been in production since 2002, get over it. The incremental investment to keep it going for a few more years therefore makes a load of commercial sense for Ferrari. Whereas for a McLaren or Lotus a fresh investment for an engine that just won’t be legal in a few years time and is hugely overweight makes none.

Well said also don't forget that Ferrari have been around since the 1950's and Mclaren have been making road cars since 2010.

[Wammer]

GranCab said:

D4rez said:

GranCab said:

@ Wammer the 355 engine is a V8 built by Ferrari, as is the 488 engine ... that's just about all they have in common.

True but the last Feb V8 (NA) was used for 11 years compared with 8 for Mclaren. The current engine has been around since 2014 and is used in California, Portofino, 488, 488 Pista, GT4C Lusso T, SF90 with only minor changes. McLaren has used different capacities, turbochargers, manifolds, Conrods, pistons, valve train, hybrids etc. People who say this is the same engine as the 12C’s don’t understand engines is his point.

11years ? In what ?

I'm sure Ferrari have made as many changes/improvements to their V8s and V12s over the years e.g. bore and stroke, capacity, power output as well as internal mechanical upgrades.

Any fule kno that all McLaren do is get Ricardo to develop a new chip for the engine management .....

That would be the F355, 360 and F430.

Your other statements aren't worth replying too.

[Wammer]

D4rez said:

GranCab said:

11years ? In what ?

I'm sure Ferrari have made as many changes/improvements to their V8s and V12s over the years e.g. bore and stroke, capacity, power output as well as internal mechanical upgrades.

Any fule kno that all McLaren do is get Ricardo to develop a new chip for the engine management .....

Yeah so the F430 engine (production 2004) is the “same” engine as the 458 (end production 2015). Or didn’t you know? The clue is that they are all called the same name Tipo 136! It had 4.3 litres originally and 4.5 in the 458. So in simple PH terms it gained 0.2litres capacity in 11 years. As ever the detail is key and few would say they are the same engine but the block was shared all the way through. The equivalent detail for McLaren is below:

The 650S/12C had a 3.8l V8 built by Ricardo as a supplier based on a 3.5l race engine design but very different with no shared internals at all - different block, cylinders, fuel injection, turbos. The list goes on.

The 570S had the same 3.8l V8 block but with new smaller turbos, new crankshaft and manifold, muffler. This reduced CO2 by 26g/km and made it more responsive.

The 675LT has the 3.8l V8 from 650S/12C but with titanium conrods, new cylinder heads, new MHI turbos, new titanium exhaust, new camshaft - 41% by mass was new. This increased power, reduced weight and changed the sound significantly.

720S was stroked out to 4.0l displacement and therefore needed new pistons, crankshaft, conrods, (16 rather than 8) port fuel injectors and new twin scroll turbos with e-wastegates. It produced more power for less CO2 and weight. Upping the boost would not achieve this.

Senna (and I’m sure Elva has) - dual fuel pumps, titanium connecting rods, lightweight pistons, new larger turbos, Inconel exhausts, carbon fibre plenums, ion sensing etc. This gives more power and less weight again.

This is without getting into the different Hybrid systems used by P1 and Speedtail. Not just a chip tune then. This info is all freely available online and worth reading before slagging McLaren off for using the “same” engine.

Yes but where would the fun be with actually finding out the facts before slagging something off

[Alex_6n2]

Put it this way:

If McLaren sell all of these, it proves trickle down economics works.

Think of all the jobs paid for in the supply chain.

I actually like the way it looks, but it's definitely better with a windscreen

[Mr Whippy]

Front looks st.

It seems like every 5th customer gets a new car design now.

I think it'll be fun running any McLaren in 10yrs... spare parts will be sparse and cost a fortune.

[S1KRR]

Wammer said:

...

458 - Rear wheel arch liners caught fire.

Fire is a bd, make no mistake. But it's not like Ferrari have the monopoly on it.

I would suggest that it's not major engine failures that customers are complaining about. It seems to be stuff like when 12C was launched. SatNav wasn't even finished. Doors wouldn't open when wet! NVH problems. The everyday stuff that will wind you up over time and make you get rid of the car. Plus obviously residuals are kicking owners in the nuts and I guess dhead "influencers" aside. Most people, even the truly minted, want to feel like they wont lose too much money in 24months. Since it makes you less likely to buy new again.

Wammer said:

Also just for anyone who likes to say that Mclaren use the same engine all the time. Ferrari still use pretty much the same engine in the 488 that they did in the F355 and i don't see anyone complaining about that.

Wammer said:

Erm the F355, 360, 430, 458 and 488 have all been mid engined V8's so im not sure what your point is?

Probably because Ferrari don't just make mid engine V8TT 2 seat cars.

They do V12s. And Front Engine and 4wd and 2+2s and soon an SUV.

And crucially they recently did the SP2



Which means that McLaren just looks like it's copying them.





Not that I want to get hit in the face by a pigeon at 100mph.

For my £1.5 Million I'd be buying this.




A Singer 911 DLS

Which sounds like this! Like an old F1 car!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vwr3MmMILyc

Glorious! And what's interesting is that Singer is a TINY company that can produce something at this price point which is truly hand built and bespoke and I daresay they cant build enough of them!

Edited by S1KRR on Thursday 14th November 20:52

[anonymous-user]

S1KRR said:

Glorious! And what's interesting is that Singer is a TINY company that can produce something at this price point which is truly hand built and bespoke and I daresay they cant build enough of them!

I totally agree and still an extremely healthy profit margin in there too. Lop the top off an 812 or 720, charge 5 times as much and stand back and watch as your best customers all clamber over one another to get one; everyone's happy. Except PH.