Road Rage - have you ever got out of your car?

[RemyMartin81D]

austinsmirk said:

alternatively- cycling rage. Purely as a cyclist, when people have nearly killed you.

I have, kicked wing mirrors off (metal cleated shoes make a right mess)

punched several windows through

tried putting my bike through a blokes windscreen- turns out having yr chain on the top ring, brought down hard on the windscreen A post is enough to fold the A post

ripped several sets of keys out of mopeds,/motorbike ignitions who have been flying up bus/cycle lanes, or illegally off road.

booted the rear qtr in of some car (metal cleated shoes make a right mess)- i'm in a cycle lane- lad doesn't want to queue in traffic so mounts pavement in front of me causing me to bunny hop sideways- I boot his car to warn of my presence. turns out looking back, I've folded his enter rear quarter in.


and only the other night, waiting patiently at the side of the road, for the 5 cars in front to move, not pushing, not trying to creep up the nearside, just stationary- the bloke behind me purposely rammed me- and then started gesturing to get out of his way. where he thought he was even going to drive to, given 5 stationary cars were in front, I don't know. we'd had no confrontation, I'd never been in his way on the road previously........... goodness knows what his issue was.

turns out he was a lot less hard after I started punching his bonnet to stop him moving- he locked himself in his car- as I'll admit it, I lost the plot and tried opening his doors to drag him out. Like a nutter I punched his window endlessly- it was flexing like plastic but wouldn't go through- till he drove off. I still chased him on my bike- but in fairness on 60 mph remote moor roads, he had the advantage re: escaping.


so there you go, seemingly over the last 30 years, there have been occasions where I have utterly lost the plot- purely because some bell end came near to ending my life in fairness.

Total and utter lies to enhance your standing on this site, spectacularly backfired though as you end up looking totally stupid, I will end if there is a semblance of truth to it eventually someone much bigger than you WILL hospitalise or hurt you.

[TurboHatchback]

popeyewhite said:

TurboHatchback said:

popeyewhite said:

irocfan said:

popeyewhite said:

irocfan said:

I'm looking forward to a post where he complains about some gorilla with no impulse control beating the snot out of him for no reason....

Where has the term 'gorilla' appeared from? Is this the pejorative for those that stand up for themselves rather than locking their doors and hiding in their cars soiling themselves (sorry, read that as 'laughing at the other driver') when confronted with their bad driving? Or does it just apply to cyclists when the red mist descends?

gorilla in this context meaning a person with rage issues... just look at a gorilla getting pissed off (that's my take on it at any rate)

Ah OK, so a measured response, ie getting out of the car and merely defending yourself without going bonkers (see austinsmirk), isn't liable to get you labelled a gorilla?

Getting out of the car to engage in hand to hand combat with an angry moron over driving is definitively the mark of someone with more aggression than cognitive reasoning ability. I think Gorilla is quite apt, if a tad harsh on gorillas.

And at what point would you be prepared to defend yourself? Y'know - stop cowering, stand up and stop being bullied/have your family in the car terrorised etc? Does 'cognitive reasoning ability' trump the need to protect you and your loved ones every time?

How on earth is getting out and going 12 rounds with some knuckle dragging cretin going to protect me or anyone else? I would treat it the same as any other threat, where possible avoid the threat in the first place, otherwise remove myself from the threat (drive away) and if that's not possible then neutralise it with the most effective and minimal risk means available, in this case that being driving through or over them in the motorised metal battering ram I would be occupying. I have no more interest in interacting with the sort of utter moron that engages in this sort of behaviour than I do with angry farmyard animals and no more concern for their welfare either.

[irocfan]

popeyewhite said:

Ah OK, so a measured response, ie getting out of the car and merely defending yourself without going bonkers (see austinsmirk), isn't liable to get you labelled a gorilla?

TBF having an austinsmirk assault your vehicle might indeed make my (semi)rational mind go all silverback - then I'd remember that I'm more chihuahua than rotty (apologies for mixing my animal metaphors) and leave it at that. Things get much more violent then 2 tonnes of metal generally beats a meatsack with cleats.

[Speed addicted]

TurboHatchback said:

How on earth is getting out and going 12 rounds with some knuckle dragging cretin going to protect me or anyone else? I would treat it the same as any other threat, where possible avoid the threat in the first place, otherwise remove myself from the threat (drive away) and if that's not possible then neutralise it with the most effective and minimal risk means available, in this case that being driving through or over them in the motorised metal battering ram I would be occupying. I have no more interest in interacting with the sort of utter moron that engages in this sort of behaviour than I do with angry farmyard animals and no more concern for their welfare either.

This.
Why would I get out of the car? Best case I can avoid the situation altogether, worst case I can use it as an extremely effective weapon.

[popeyewhite]

TurboHatchback said:

How on earth is getting out and going 12 rounds with some knuckle dragging cretin going to protect me or anyone else? I would treat it the same as any other threat, where possible avoid the threat in the first place, otherwise remove myself from the threat (drive away) and if that's not possible then neutralise it with the most effective and minimal risk means available, in this case that being driving through or over them in the motorised metal battering ram I would be occupying. I have no more interest in interacting with the sort of utter moron that engages in this sort of behaviour than I do with angry farmyard animals and no more concern for their welfare either.

I only asked you "at what point would you be prepared to defend yourself"? Not sure how you've got to "12 rounds" etc
You seem quite pugnacious on a forum...but then that's just anonymised words.

[Kuji]

irocfan said:

Wildcat45 said:

austinsmirk said:

alternatively- cycling rage. Purely as a cyclist, when people have nearly killed you.

I have, kicked wing mirrors off (metal cleated shoes make a right mess)

punched several windows through

tried putting my bike through a blokes windscreen- turns out having yr chain on the top ring, brought down hard on the windscreen A post is enough to fold the A post

ripped several sets of keys out of mopeds,/motorbike ignitions who have been flying up bus/cycle lanes, or illegally off road.

booted the rear qtr in of some car (metal cleated shoes make a right mess)- i'm in a cycle lane- lad doesn't want to queue in traffic so mounts pavement in front of me causing me to bunny hop sideways- I boot his car to warn of my presence. turns out looking back, I've folded his enter rear quarter in.


and only the other night, waiting patiently at the side of the road, for the 5 cars in front to move, not pushing, not trying to creep up the nearside, just stationary- the bloke behind me purposely rammed me- and then started gesturing to get out of his way. where he thought he was even going to drive to, given 5 stationary cars were in front, I don't know. we'd had no confrontation, I'd never been in his way on the road previously........... goodness knows what his issue was.

turns out he was a lot less hard after I started punching his bonnet to stop him moving- he locked himself in his car- as I'll admit it, I lost the plot and tried opening his doors to drag him out. Like a nutter I punched his window endlessly- it was flexing like plastic but wouldn't go through- till he drove off. I still chased him on my bike- but in fairness on 60 mph remote moor roads, he had the advantage re: escaping.


so there you go, seemingly over the last 30 years, there have been occasions where I have utterly lost the plot- purely because some bell end came near to ending my life in fairness.

Am I right in thinking your react or overreact to your vulnerability as a cyclist?
What is going through your mind when you go into these rages? Are you at any point thinking of the consequence of your action? What about when you get home, sleep on it? Do you still feel justified or do you recognise your reaction as being OTT?

I'm looking forward to a post where he complains about some gorilla with no impulse control beating the snot out of him for no reason....

will it contain the phrase/words:

Totally random , unprovoked, Innocent victim?

[Kuji]

Alex_225 said:

I have never gone out looking for road rage

I very much doubt anyone on here has. But, PH does have some experts who can read a newspaper article and make 2+2=99.

[Rawwr]

popeyewhite said:

I only asked you "at what point would you be prepared to defend yourself"?

I guess it would be hard to maintain that getting out of your car to confront someone is an act of defence. I think most reasonable people would deem that to be more of an offensive act than a defensive one. You could probably quite comfortably argue that getting out of your car significantly weakens your defensive position, too.

[Bam89]

I get the whole argument of staying in the car with doors and windows closed being the safest option defensively, but at what point are you prepared to run someone over in order to remove yourself from the situation?

I don't know if I could do it if the threat was just an angry fat bloke punching my car, seems a massive overreaction and I'm not sure the law would be on my side

[Rawwr]

Bam89 said:

I get the whole argument of staying in the car with doors and windows closed being the safest option defensively, but at what point are you prepared to run someone over in order to remove yourself from the situation?

A significant threat. If a gun appeared, that'd be a significant threat and using your vehicle as a weapon is probably a proportional response but anything up until that point, I think the best option is to try and drive out of the situation. I wouldn't actively try to drive someone over, even if he was beating the sh*t out of my car with whatever club-like object he managed to lay his hands on.

[TurboHatchback]

popeyewhite said:

I only asked you "at what point would you be prepared to defend yourself"? Not sure how you've got to "12 rounds" etc
You seem quite pugnacious on a forum...but then that's just anonymised words.

You're going to have to be clearer about your definition of defending myself. If you mean 'taking actions to avoid coming to harm' then always, even proactively before any situation develops. If you mean 'leaving the vehicle and engaging in hand to hand combat' then only after every other option is exhausted (including staying put, calling the police, running them down/ramming them off the road etc). Not being a hardman and not caring about whether other people think I am or not I'm struggling to see any real world situation where I would do that but so far I've never experienced any worse than some brief tailgating and gesticulation in 13 years of driving.

Bam89 said:

I get the whole argument of staying in the car with doors and windows closed being the safest option defensively, but at what point are you prepared to run someone over in order to remove yourself from the situation?

I don't know if I could do it if the threat was just an angry fat bloke punching my car, seems a massive overreaction and I'm not sure the law would be on my side

Legally and morally you would have to be in fear for your personal safety with no other way to escape, a definition which would surely vary based on the individual. If you are Tyson Fury in an armored limo then it would have to be a pretty extreme situation, if you are a little old lady in an MX5 then I imagine a Jury would give you the benefit of the doubt unless it was totally and obviously irrational.

[SistersofPercy]

Yes. Once. And it wasn't my finest moment.

I was driving the kids to school and at the time I drove an old Morris Minor as my daily driver. It was cheap to run and insure and was perfect for the school runs etc.
Once morning taking the kids to school a council work van pulled out on me. He left it so late that I actually ended up on the other side of the road to avoid him. I was spitting. Even if I'd had modern brakes it would have been very close.
Anyway, I followed him on to the estate where he pulled up outside the house he was working on. I flew out of the car (kids were mortified) and launched into a full tirade on why pulling out on an old car with drum brakes wasn't one of his finest moments. I'm about 5ft 5 and scary when annoyed (apparently)

To his credit he was very apologetic and said he hadn't realised drum brakes were a thing and he'd be a lot more considerate towards older cars in the future. Kids remained mortified.

I wouldn't do it again, far too aware that meeting the wrong idiot with a knife down the side of his seat would be the end of me but at the time I was younger and stupider.

[Speed addicted]

Bam89 said:

I get the whole argument of staying in the car with doors and windows closed being the safest option defensively, but at what point are you prepared to run someone over in order to remove yourself from the situation?

I don't know if I could do it if the threat was just an angry fat bloke punching my car, seems a massive overreaction and I'm not sure the law would be on my side

Puts on shocked face.
‘I don’t know officer, he was attacking me and I panicked’

I don’t know what it would take for me to use the car as a weapon. I’d have to be properly worried, plus out of options for removing myself from the situation other than over the aggressor.

It’s a bit different on a motorbike, escape options are far better but you’re really vulnerable if you discover a nutter.

[thatdude]

austinsmirk said:

alternatively- cycling rage. Purely as a cyclist, when people have nearly killed you.

I have, kicked wing mirrors off (metal cleated shoes make a right mess)

punched several windows through

tried putting my bike through a blokes windscreen- turns out having yr chain on the top ring, brought down hard on the windscreen A post is enough to fold the A post

ripped several sets of keys out of mopeds,/motorbike ignitions who have been flying up bus/cycle lanes, or illegally off road.

booted the rear qtr in of some car (metal cleated shoes make a right mess)- i'm in a cycle lane- lad doesn't want to queue in traffic so mounts pavement in front of me causing me to bunny hop sideways- I boot his car to warn of my presence. turns out looking back, I've folded his enter rear quarter in.


and only the other night, waiting patiently at the side of the road, for the 5 cars in front to move, not pushing, not trying to creep up the nearside, just stationary- the bloke behind me purposely rammed me- and then started gesturing to get out of his way. where he thought he was even going to drive to, given 5 stationary cars were in front, I don't know. we'd had no confrontation, I'd never been in his way on the road previously........... goodness knows what his issue was.

turns out he was a lot less hard after I started punching his bonnet to stop him moving- he locked himself in his car- as I'll admit it, I lost the plot and tried opening his doors to drag him out. Like a nutter I punched his window endlessly- it was flexing like plastic but wouldn't go through- till he drove off. I still chased him on my bike- but in fairness on 60 mph remote moor roads, he had the advantage re: escaping.


so there you go, seemingly over the last 30 years, there have been occasions where I have utterly lost the plot- purely because some bell end came near to ending my life in fairness.

fking hell, you're a bit of an angry beast arnt you!

Maybe you shouldnt be on the roads with that temper. You might hurt someone who made a genuine mistake (the amount of blindspots in cars, it;s easy to miss things). You might get angry at someone who could fk you up for the rest of your life.

fking hell, what a cock.

FWIW I used to commute through london on a motorcycle. I used to give a few beeps of the horn here and there but generally rode in a defnesive manner, planned well ahead etc and did my best to quickly get out of a sitution where I could sense it was getting a bit ugly. No harm, no foul. If you really feel so vunerable, change your route, change th way you ride / plan ahead, change the clothing your wearing for better visibility.

Also, dont be an agressive wker, it's not a good look. You catch the wrong person on the wrong day of their life (I swear in the days following my wifes miscarriaged I could have murdered someone who slighted me, I was so upset and so angry) and it's only going to end badly for you.

[popeyewhite]

Rawwr said:

popeyewhite said:

I only asked you "at what point would you be prepared to defend yourself"?

I guess it would be hard to maintain that getting out of your car to confront someone is an act of defence. I think most reasonable people would deem that to be more of an offensive act than a defensive one. You could probably quite comfortably argue that getting out of your car significantly weakens your defensive position, too.

"Defensive position"? You mean cowering in the car hoping the aggressor will go away? The word 'defence' does imply some interaction with the attacker beyond locking the doors and praying you hadn't been such a cock at the roundabout.

defend

verb
1.
resist an attack made on (someone or something); protect from harm or danger.

[J4CKO]

When you leave your home you are then at more risk or negative interactions, a lot of the DCW videos seem to either cause a non event to be an event or escalate a minor one into a major one.

Someone said years ago on here "Don't let dheads become part of the rest of your life" - or similar.

there are some very angry people out there, some are mentally unhinged, psychotic, sociopaths or whatever. Plus being in a car seems to alter peoples persona from normal to batst mental, am sure some see it as a hobby or sport, sometimes it just easier to put up with something than remonstrate, throbbers in hurry to plough down on chevrons and cut in, if you beep always then have plenty of time to get into a road rager about it, they like it, they have to restore their honour of the sleight of you daring to object to them being a cock.

I love this link, explains that perfectly,

https://theoatmeal.com/comics/minor_differences

So I try now to just have minimal, positive interactions, avoid antagonising and getting into any kind of dialogue that is territorial or aggressive, let people out, be polite, make eye contact, thanks people if they let you out and don't get into tailgating, long horn solos or shouting "CAM ER RA, CAM ER RA".

No good can ever come of getting out of your car to remonstrate, especially when the red mist is still down and the pillock in the Insignia if you start having a slap fest at the side of the road can soon be, rather than forgotten, someone you see in court, their name forever known to you...

[popeyewhite]

Bam89 said:

I get the whole argument of staying in the car with doors and windows closed being the safest option defensively, but at what point are you prepared to run someone over in order to remove yourself from the situation?

This.

I have never mentioned fisticuffs but I think people are so abjectly terrified of physical confrontation of any sort they automatically assume the worst in the 'road rage' scenario.

I suppose therfore that most on here would sit in their car whilst they are being attacked and only react (possibly overreact as often happens when those terrified eventually decide they have to do something - see the car surrounded by bikers incident in the States a while back), when the adrenaline hits and fight or flight takes effect.

[irocfan]

Rawwr said:

Bam89 said:

I get the whole argument of staying in the car with doors and windows closed being the safest option defensively, but at what point are you prepared to run someone over in order to remove yourself from the situation?

A significant threat. If a gun appeared, that'd be a significant threat and using your vehicle as a weapon is probably a proportional response but anything up until that point, I think the best option is to try and drive out of the situation. I wouldn't actively try to drive someone over, even if he was beating the sh*t out of my car with whatever club-like object he managed to lay his hands on.

TBH as soon as a weapon ('club-like object') starts making an appearance then I think that running the tt over is justified. Stopping and reversing over him to ensure he doesn't chase you, however, would be a tad excessive!

[Rawwr]

popeyewhite said:

"Defensive position"? You mean cowering in the car hoping the aggressor will go away? The word 'defence' does imply some interaction with the attacker beyond locking the doors and praying you hadn't been such a cock at the roundabout.

defend

verb
1.
resist an attack made on (someone or something); protect from harm or danger.

Do you think you'd be better placed to resist an attack inside or outside of your car?

[popeyewhite]

Rawwr said:

Do you think you'd be better placed to resist an attack inside or outside of your car?

Could you explain how you think you're resisiting anything by just sitting there? What will you do when the window is smashed, or worst case a door is pulled open?