Garages - are they all just a bit crap?
Discussion
I think some of the problem with costs/ pricing stems from the fact that your average punter doesn't realise what a complete pain some modern cars are to work on.
I recently changed my own cabin filters ( for example ).
The (main dealer) service history on my car says these were last changed 2 years ago.
They weren't - although I was charged for them.
I can understand why though.
I found myself virtually upside down in the footwell and I have the injuries to prove my success ( a nice cut on my arm and many scuffed/ scraped knuckles and fingers).
I gave up on replacing a headlight bulb a few years ago.
Took it to a garage ( who still struggled ).
It was worth it for the sake of my sanity.
I recently changed my own cabin filters ( for example ).
The (main dealer) service history on my car says these were last changed 2 years ago.
They weren't - although I was charged for them.
I can understand why though.
I found myself virtually upside down in the footwell and I have the injuries to prove my success ( a nice cut on my arm and many scuffed/ scraped knuckles and fingers).
I gave up on replacing a headlight bulb a few years ago.
Took it to a garage ( who still struggled ).
It was worth it for the sake of my sanity.
My daily drivers (Mk1 Fabia vRS previously, Mk3 Octavia vRS now and my wife's Mk1 Fabia) have gone to a local VW specialist since 2008. It's a small outfit, couple of guys and just 1 ramp but they've always offered excellent service and quality of work.
Maybe we're lucky in Warrington - there are a few garages around here I would (and have) trusted with my cars if I was in a pinch and the above weren't available.
Maybe we're lucky in Warrington - there are a few garages around here I would (and have) trusted with my cars if I was in a pinch and the above weren't available.
deggles said:
Fair comments. I was indeed a customer and certainly no complaints - was gutted when you stopped doing outside service work! I think it's telling that the service side just wasn't worthwhile for someone in your position (i.e. sales side helping with overheads). Maybe this is the problem, the decent outfits realise there's no value in taking the time to do a good job and so disappear, then it's a race to the bottom on price for the rest.
My rant was mainly based on recent experiences with generic outfits that have ballsed up basic tasks - admittedly I've used them based on convenience and price - and tinged with historical bad experience with other specialists. My thread title in hindsight seems a bit inflammatory, so apologies for that.
No apologies needed to me My rant was mainly based on recent experiences with generic outfits that have ballsed up basic tasks - admittedly I've used them based on convenience and price - and tinged with historical bad experience with other specialists. My thread title in hindsight seems a bit inflammatory, so apologies for that.
It was a surprise to me how hard work it was. People look after their own cars or do some upkeep which is easy but translating it into a commercial enterprise it's another thing altogether its very hard and I found it draining. If we'd set more staff on we would have lost money so it was a catch 22 in the end.
There are good places I always said I think as a business owner you are wired for the spanners or sales clearly for me it was more sales which is a much easier existence to me. Likewise I often hear spannering outfits Express amazement at how I can do sales whereas it is normal to me.
General issues more regular garages face
Difficulty in getting good staff
Inability to pay good staff enough due to market pressures
Pressure to get cars done and out
Sheer volume of knowledge needed
Every customer is an internet expert. This is sn interesting one as there's a lot of stuff I took for granted with the Lotus stuff but in practice we learned a lot of the established ways of thinking were not right.
I've had some awful experiences with garages a few of which encouraged me to do it all in house. Live and learn!
I can't imagine the guys on the tools would be too pleased but I wonder if anyone has ever thought about having CCTV on each of the bays.
We regularly see accusations of work not being done, or damage being caused. If the garage owners are so confident that this is not happening why not take measures to protect yourself from it?
We regularly see accusations of work not being done, or damage being caused. If the garage owners are so confident that this is not happening why not take measures to protect yourself from it?
Rick101 said:
I can't imagine the guys on the tools would be too pleased but I wonder if anyone has ever thought about having CCTV on each of the bays.
We regularly see accusations of work not being done, or damage being caused. If the garage owners are so confident that this is not happening why not take measures to protect yourself from it?
That's the opposite of what you want to do, if you can't trust your employees then you should hire people you can trust. Once people feel they're not trusted, it all goes down hill, the whole place feels oppressive, you stop caring, you clock in to the second, you clock out to the second, you do the bare minimum you have to do and the harsher the punishments, the more people try to blame each other and the less of a sh*t they give about their work.We regularly see accusations of work not being done, or damage being caused. If the garage owners are so confident that this is not happening why not take measures to protect yourself from it?
Trouble is once this culture has been cultivated by poor management, it's extremely difficult to remove.
Where I work, the boss put CCTV in the goods out area, because he's paranoid that people are stealing stuff, at the moment he's convinced that people are stealing cardboard boxes in the run up to xmas (i've heard him shouting at the guys over how may boxes they're using)....... The 3 guys that work in that area have gone from happy hard working employees, to couldn't give a f**K, in less than 2 weeks, all of them now looking for new jobs.
When you trust people, they trust and respect you, they feel like a valued member of the company and they work hard.
Rick101 said:
I can't imagine the guys on the tools would be too pleased but I wonder if anyone has ever thought about having CCTV on each of the bays.
We regularly see accusations of work not being done, or damage being caused. If the garage owners are so confident that this is not happening why not take measures to protect yourself from it?
We have cctv in our workshop. The customers can wait and watch us work. Nothing to hide from our end. We're all on set wages no bonus schemes involved. Same for mots. It doesn't matter if you pass 8 a day or fail 8 a day. You get paid the same. There's 3 of us in the workshop with two ramps each. Since the cctv has gone in. We've had a pay rise as my boss has realised how hard we work & how much we get through. We regularly see accusations of work not being done, or damage being caused. If the garage owners are so confident that this is not happening why not take measures to protect yourself from it?
Any damage is caught on cctv and is rectified if it's done by us (accidents do happen)
Ideally my boss wants to hire a extra pair of hands but reality is good mechanics are thin on the ground. Pretty much anyone can replace parts. It's the diagnosing that is a skill not a lot of modern mechanics have
Having said all of the above you can't please every customer. We never do any work without getting consent you get the odd one whinging because they haven't answered their phone/email all day and turn up at closing time expecting their car to be ready
lyonspride said:
That's the opposite of what you want to do, if you can't trust your employees then you should hire people you can trust. Once people feel they're not trusted, it all goes down hill, the whole place feels oppressive, you stop caring, you clock in to the second, you clock out to the second, you do the bare minimum you have to do and the harsher the punishments, the more people try to blame each other and the less of a sh*t they give about their work.
Trouble is once this culture has been cultivated by poor management, it's extremely difficult to remove.
Where I work, the boss put CCTV in the goods out area, because he's paranoid that people are stealing stuff, at the moment he's convinced that people are stealing cardboard boxes in the run up to xmas (i've heard him shouting at the guys over how may boxes they're using)....... The 3 guys that work in that area have gone from happy hard working employees, to couldn't give a f**K, in less than 2 weeks, all of them now looking for new jobs.
When you trust people, they trust and respect you, they feel like a valued member of the company and they work hard.
See my above post. We had cctv installed as part of the new mot bay. Each bay has its own cctv so customers can watch if they choose to. Its worked the other way for us. The boss has noticed how hard we work & pulled us in after a few months of them being installed everyone got a pay rise. Trouble is once this culture has been cultivated by poor management, it's extremely difficult to remove.
Where I work, the boss put CCTV in the goods out area, because he's paranoid that people are stealing stuff, at the moment he's convinced that people are stealing cardboard boxes in the run up to xmas (i've heard him shouting at the guys over how may boxes they're using)....... The 3 guys that work in that area have gone from happy hard working employees, to couldn't give a f**K, in less than 2 weeks, all of them now looking for new jobs.
When you trust people, they trust and respect you, they feel like a valued member of the company and they work hard.
We were initially dubious working under cctv at first but its been in now 12 months and its saved us 3 times so far with customers claiming we have damaged vehicles
On the subject of people stealing. It's different at our place. As long as the ramp is free and we're quiet. We're all allowed to work on our own cars. Any supplies, parts we need are all sold to us at cost and excluding the vat.
Ste372 said:
lyonspride said:
That's the opposite of what you want to do, if you can't trust your employees then you should hire people you can trust. Once people feel they're not trusted, it all goes down hill, the whole place feels oppressive, you stop caring, you clock in to the second, you clock out to the second, you do the bare minimum you have to do and the harsher the punishments, the more people try to blame each other and the less of a sh*t they give about their work.
Trouble is once this culture has been cultivated by poor management, it's extremely difficult to remove.
Where I work, the boss put CCTV in the goods out area, because he's paranoid that people are stealing stuff, at the moment he's convinced that people are stealing cardboard boxes in the run up to xmas (i've heard him shouting at the guys over how may boxes they're using)....... The 3 guys that work in that area have gone from happy hard working employees, to couldn't give a f**K, in less than 2 weeks, all of them now looking for new jobs.
When you trust people, they trust and respect you, they feel like a valued member of the company and they work hard.
See my above post. We had cctv installed as part of the new mot bay. Each bay has its own cctv so customers can watch if they choose to. Its worked the other way for us. The boss has noticed how hard we work & pulled us in after a few months of them being installed everyone got a pay rise. Trouble is once this culture has been cultivated by poor management, it's extremely difficult to remove.
Where I work, the boss put CCTV in the goods out area, because he's paranoid that people are stealing stuff, at the moment he's convinced that people are stealing cardboard boxes in the run up to xmas (i've heard him shouting at the guys over how may boxes they're using)....... The 3 guys that work in that area have gone from happy hard working employees, to couldn't give a f**K, in less than 2 weeks, all of them now looking for new jobs.
When you trust people, they trust and respect you, they feel like a valued member of the company and they work hard.
We were initially dubious working under cctv at first but its been in now 12 months and its saved us 3 times so far with customers claiming we have damaged vehicles
On the subject of people stealing. It's different at our place. As long as the ramp is free and we're quiet. We're all allowed to work on our own cars. Any supplies, parts we need are all sold to us at cost and excluding the vat.
Another, cool story bro, of mine....
Found a dad n lad garage not far from work a few years ago, turned out to be a mate of a mate.
Did a service/pads and disks for me whilst I was at work.
Went to collect it, didn't charge me a huge amount, even wire brushed and lightly sprayed the calipers as they were looking a bit tatty, I was well chuffed.
We walked out to the car, it was pissing down, the passenger window was down, service book was on the seat, soggy as f
k!
He couldn't have been any more apologetic. st happens, but even the best of us make silly mistakes every now and again.
Found a dad n lad garage not far from work a few years ago, turned out to be a mate of a mate.
Did a service/pads and disks for me whilst I was at work.
Went to collect it, didn't charge me a huge amount, even wire brushed and lightly sprayed the calipers as they were looking a bit tatty, I was well chuffed.
We walked out to the car, it was pissing down, the passenger window was down, service book was on the seat, soggy as f
k!He couldn't have been any more apologetic. s
t happens, but even the best of us make silly mistakes every now and again.Hi,
I think sometimes it only takes one voice of decent against places a garage that gets rave reviews, and then the tide turns.
Years ago I took my then nearly new Ford Puma to a specialist garage that everyone on the Puma forum raved about – I don’t think there was a single negative review. My experience was ok, but it wasn’t worth the several hours travelling to get there.
A few weeks later, someone on the Puma forum posed about a problem he’d had with this garage, and then immediately another half dozen people all posted saying they had had issues.
I think sometimes it only takes one voice of decent against places a garage that gets rave reviews, and then the tide turns.
Years ago I took my then nearly new Ford Puma to a specialist garage that everyone on the Puma forum raved about – I don’t think there was a single negative review. My experience was ok, but it wasn’t worth the several hours travelling to get there.
A few weeks later, someone on the Puma forum posed about a problem he’d had with this garage, and then immediately another half dozen people all posted saying they had had issues.
Ste372 said:
We have cctv in our workshop. The customers can wait and watch us work. Nothing to hide from our end.
That's exactly what I was getting at. It may seem a bit oppressive at first but it's for your protection rather 3to be used against you. If you have a good boss, that shouldn't even be a concern. Would save a lot of hassle with unfounded accusations. yeager2004 said:
Hi,
I think sometimes it only takes one voice of decent against places a garage that gets rave reviews, and then the tide turns.
Years ago I took my then nearly new Ford Puma to a specialist garage that everyone on the Puma forum raved about – I don’t think there was a single negative review. My experience was ok, but it wasn’t worth the several hours travelling to get there.
A few weeks later, someone on the Puma forum posed about a problem he’d had with this garage, and then immediately another half dozen people all posted saying they had had issues.
Equally a garage can change management and it all goes to sh*t.I think sometimes it only takes one voice of decent against places a garage that gets rave reviews, and then the tide turns.
Years ago I took my then nearly new Ford Puma to a specialist garage that everyone on the Puma forum raved about – I don’t think there was a single negative review. My experience was ok, but it wasn’t worth the several hours travelling to get there.
A few weeks later, someone on the Puma forum posed about a problem he’d had with this garage, and then immediately another half dozen people all posted saying they had had issues.
Garage I used for over 10 years, brilliant place, honest to a fault, it didn't change owners, but the owner retired and left his son to run it, it all went to sh*t pretty quickly, all the staff left, replaced by your Crapfit cowboy types, haven't been back since they tried to do me for a full exhaust system I didn't need, when it was just the front flex section leaking.
All it takes is one arrogant tosser to be put in charge and a decades old reputation goes to hell.
fridaypassion said:
General issues more regular garages face
Difficulty in getting good staff
Unwillingness to pay the going rate for decent staff
Pressure to get cars done and out
Sheer volume of knowledge needed
Every customer is an internet expert. This is sn interesting one as there's a lot of stuff I took for granted with the Lotus stuff but in practice we learned a lot of the established ways of thinking were not right.
FTFYDifficulty in getting good staff
Unwillingness to pay the going rate for decent staff
Pressure to get cars done and out
Sheer volume of knowledge needed
Every customer is an internet expert. This is sn interesting one as there's a lot of stuff I took for granted with the Lotus stuff but in practice we learned a lot of the established ways of thinking were not right.
Good experience staff are a) expensive and b) have an opinion and won't do a job badly just to meet some pointless target.
I use a local independent fella that's a good half hour drive from my house. Never had an issue with him, never had a failed or botched repair. He's even refused a repair on my Calibra. I told him the oil pressure was super low and the light was coming on. He put a proper tester on it and told me the oil pressure sensor was just reading poorly. I asked how much for a replacement and he said it's not worth doing as it might well cause a crack in the block if it's seized in. Since then the car has had a full engine rebuild and has been used much more, the oil pressure gauge seems to like being used a bit more and reads better now, if still a bit low. I do ask him to check on MOT day just to ensure everything is alright and he's happy to oblige. He's not the cheapest around but far cheaper than having the job done poorly, having the job undone and hopefully done properly.
RazerSauber said:
I use a local independent fella that's a good half hour drive from my house. Never had an issue with him, never had a failed or botched repair. He's even refused a repair on my Calibra. I told him the oil pressure was super low and the light was coming on. He put a proper tester on it and told me the oil pressure sensor was just reading poorly. I asked how much for a replacement and he said it's not worth doing as it might well cause a crack in the block if it's seized in. Since then the car has had a full engine rebuild and has been used much more, the oil pressure gauge seems to like being used a bit more and reads better now, if still a bit low. I do ask him to check on MOT day just to ensure everything is alright and he's happy to oblige. He's not the cheapest around but far cheaper than having the job done poorly, having the job undone and hopefully done properly.
What? That sounds like a very strange thing for a competent garage to say. Having worked on countless NE, XE, and LET blocks, I can't say it's a common problem, or even the slightest concern. It's like never changing the spark plugs because you are worried the thread in the head will strip. Even stranger that you then had the need to rebuild the engine. And then didn't replace the pressure sender while the engine was out! Bizarre.
Red 4 said:
My advice - find a good mobile mechanic for servicing/ routine maintenance jobs.
Make him welcome, build a rapport, tell him from the outset that you expect things to be done properly/ you are fussy so everyone knows where they stand.
Make conversation while your car is being worked on - regular tea/ biscuits help.
Main dealers, IME, are frankly shocking for the most part.
Kwik Fit/ National Tyres, etc get a bad rep from some.
I've found them better than main dealers - maybe I'm just fortunate to have a couple of good branches locally.
I agree. Back when i had subarus i was lucky enough to find Tim Farmer, who is a superb subaru specialist and mobile. Make him welcome, build a rapport, tell him from the outset that you expect things to be done properly/ you are fussy so everyone knows where they stand.
Make conversation while your car is being worked on - regular tea/ biscuits help.
Main dealers, IME, are frankly shocking for the most part.
Kwik Fit/ National Tyres, etc get a bad rep from some.
I've found them better than main dealers - maybe I'm just fortunate to have a couple of good branches locally.
I've found another really good non-specialist local mobile mechanic, Jody Watorowski, who has been really helpful in sorting out my clio 172.
Edited by Cambs_Stuart on Sunday 24th November 10:59
bloomen said:
Red 4 said:
Kwik Fit/ National Tyres, etc get a bad rep from some.
I've found them better than main dealers - maybe I'm just fortunate to have a couple of good branches locally.
I find it really strange how each individual outpost of a chain has a totally different character. My main place is a local chain. Their depot has had the same people for several years. I've found them better than main dealers - maybe I'm just fortunate to have a couple of good branches locally.
The flagship branch employs nothing but junkies and the clueless who wander in off the street and they're usually gone within a couple of months.
I have for my petrol cars been to the same garage twice for the same work.
1st time all ok but on driving car in suggested the clutch is knackered and it’s very heavy. Can change it for £500. Drove home stopped at a clutch specialist on the way home just asking what he thought and he said they are talking crap.
2nd time. Puncture repair. 4 tyres recently replaced by previous owner. They commented that these tyres were cheap and crap and would be causing the vibrations.
Suggested 4 new tyres at just £600 which would solve the problem. Ironically the car was on their system and amazingly the tyres were from the same chain of garages who still sell them.
I mean what would you do ?
Not great form when your company supplies a product and then the staff call them cheap crap and suggest you spend another wedge of cash on new ones.
Downward said:
Not seen anything recent but following a search it’s bought me here.
I have for my petrol cars been to the same garage twice for the same work.
1st time all ok but on driving car in suggested the clutch is knackered and it’s very heavy. Can change it for £500. Drove home stopped at a clutch specialist on the way home just asking what he thought and he said they are talking crap.
2nd time. Puncture repair. 4 tyres recently replaced by previous owner. They commented that these tyres were cheap and crap and would be causing the vibrations.
Suggested 4 new tyres at just £600 which would solve the problem. Ironically the car was on their system and amazingly the tyres were from the same chain of garages who still sell them.
I mean what would you do ?
Not great form when your company supplies a product and then the staff call them cheap crap and suggest you spend another wedge of cash on new ones.
They probably meant it's on it's way out as heaviness is a sign the pressure plate springs are over extending to release the (almost worn out) friction disc.I have for my petrol cars been to the same garage twice for the same work.
1st time all ok but on driving car in suggested the clutch is knackered and it’s very heavy. Can change it for £500. Drove home stopped at a clutch specialist on the way home just asking what he thought and he said they are talking crap.
2nd time. Puncture repair. 4 tyres recently replaced by previous owner. They commented that these tyres were cheap and crap and would be causing the vibrations.
Suggested 4 new tyres at just £600 which would solve the problem. Ironically the car was on their system and amazingly the tyres were from the same chain of garages who still sell them.
I mean what would you do ?
Not great form when your company supplies a product and then the staff call them cheap crap and suggest you spend another wedge of cash on new ones.
The other garage just went with the "If it doesn't slip, it's fine" approach. Probably because they didn't want the work.
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