RE: Toyota GR Supra vs Litchfield vs Auto Torque
Discussion
big_rob_sydney said:
Loved the old Supra. Hate this new one.
But why? The old one had back seats, and was easily tuned to silly power. This one is the b
d love child of bmw, with a strangled engine, and such poor interior space allocation that you can't take a family with you. WOFTAM.
Old Supra was easily tuned, yet this one is strangled? Really? On an article about how a basic remap is cracking nearly 500bhp you're saying that the old one was the car that's easily tuned.... it's a damn site harder to get 750bhp from a 2JZ than a hybrid turbo, exhaust, remap and a bit of meth injection. But why? The old one had back seats, and was easily tuned to silly power. This one is the b
d love child of bmw, with a strangled engine, and such poor interior space allocation that you can't take a family with you. WOFTAM.
This all strikes me as a bit odd - the exact same engine has been in various BMWs since 2015. BMWs have a vast international tuning scene. So if it's that easy to get 500bhp out of the engine with just a remap, why did everyone wait till it was in a Supra? You'd have thought AC Schnitzer and the rest of them would've been offering this in your 340i for years at this point, surely?
As someone who currently hasn’t the where with all to buy a new one, I’m not sure if my opinion counts, but I ‘quite’ like the look of this, but.
But. If I were able to buy one outright I’m thinking about all of the other comments bandied about on PH around tuning a new car like this, i.e would I potentially wish to invalidate my new car warranty and would Litchfield cough up for any damage or failures (I’m guessing there’s lots of corporate lawyer small print that means it would have to be proved that the tuning applied to the vehicle is proved to be responsible for the damage...?)
But. If I were able to buy one outright I’m thinking about all of the other comments bandied about on PH around tuning a new car like this, i.e would I potentially wish to invalidate my new car warranty and would Litchfield cough up for any damage or failures (I’m guessing there’s lots of corporate lawyer small print that means it would have to be proved that the tuning applied to the vehicle is proved to be responsible for the damage...?)
Tcooc168 said:
^^^^^TOTALLY AGREE ^^^^^
As an previous owner, I feel this new one has completely ruin the Supra name. The BMW involvements is the worst thing they could have done!!! Why Toyota, why?
Because lack of money to develop a completely new platform.As an previous owner, I feel this new one has completely ruin the Supra name. The BMW involvements is the worst thing they could have done!!! Why Toyota, why?
When there is already a nice, turbocharged I-6 engine that has been developed etc.
Not saying I agree, mind.
stuart-b said:
The new Supra was the biggest part of SEMA this year. It's already hugely popular in the US. A lot of tuners have switched, because the B58TU is an absolutely fantastic engine. A new hybrid turbo, standard fuel system, meth injection and you are looking at 700+ hp - everything else standard, and holding the power well. The car is literally designed from the ground up for modifications and tuning, so if you are in to that scene it will appeal.
One of the last truly petrolhead focused cars before we all end up in EV.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EG3m9shE5Uc
I'm sorry, that's pure marketing hype.One of the last truly petrolhead focused cars before we all end up in EV.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EG3m9shE5Uc
The B58 engine has been in the BMW x40i models for 2-3 years now? While there are some VERY minor changes between the B58 in the Supra v the x40i models, it's basically the same.
All of the external vents etc, are fake, you can't even open them up if you wanted to, because they don't flow anywhere. You'd be butch
It's literally a BMW in a Toyota designed body/interior.
I have no real opinion on it, I think it looks quite nice, I like the Toyota dashboard, not a fan of the steering wheel (BMW buttons from 2012).
Has an LSD as standard though, where as the BMW's don't.
Edited by xjay1337 on Sunday 24th November 00:53
sidesauce said:
I rather Toyota didn't care about your wishes but went ahead and released this car.
How dare they not listen to my opinion, but looks like they like you idea of releasing the car -_-Anyway, it seem like it’s all bout how much BHP they can extract from the engine, I’m not doubting the car or engine, I just don’t like BMW involvement in it.
dunnoreally said:
This all strikes me as a bit odd - the exact same engine has been in various BMWs since 2015. BMWs have a vast international tuning scene. So if it's that easy to get 500bhp out of the engine with just a remap, why did everyone wait till it was in a Supra? You'd have thought AC Schnitzer and the rest of them would've been offering this in your 340i for years at this point, surely?
2015 would have been the original B58, Supra runs the B58 TUE1 which has only been around since roughly start of 2018. Although I suppose 18 months is still a fair amount of time.wab172uk said:
spikyone said:
fernando the frog said:
article said:
“Safe to say, the return of the Toyota Supra has been well-received.
I disagree
Next month. PH forum closes down through lack of user interaction.
I’ve driven both old and new. I drove the new one on Thruxton racing circuit as well as surrounding roads. It’s excellent and I suggest people try it! I’ve also driven a Nissan GTR on track and I enjoyed the Supra as much which was surprising.
Huskyman said:
They’re getting 1000 bhp out of the standard block and crank already. The new Supra having the B58 fitted has opened it up to a whole new tuning scene.
Indeed they are! https://youtu.be/WzgzSnYDvz4
wab172uk said:
spikyone said:
fernando the frog said:
article said:
“Safe to say, the return of the Toyota Supra has been well-received.
I disagreeNext month. PH forum closes down through lack of user interaction.
Dan said the car had been well-received. People disagreed with that, based on the fact that they and some other armchair reviewers on a forum don't like it. If the internet's approval is your barometer of whether something has been well-received, then pretty much everything since the dawn of time has not been well-received.
People that have driven it (especially those whose job is to test cars) generally like it, with one or two notable exceptions. On that basis, Dan was absolutely correct to say it's been well-received.
People are entitled to hate it all they like, for any reason they like, but it doesn't change the fact that it's been well-received.
Tcooc168 said:
How dare they not listen to my opinion, but looks like they like you idea of releasing the car -_-
It was never my idea.Tcooc168 said:
I’m not doubting the car or engine, I just don’t like BMW involvement in it.
Because of course, notwithstanding the fact is the car wouldn't exist without their involvement, in your estimation having the choice to buy one or not isn't good.Edited by sidesauce on Sunday 24th November 10:05
GTiWILL said:
Huskyman said:
They’re getting 1000 bhp out of the standard block and crank already. The new Supra having the B58 fitted has opened it up to a whole new tuning scene.
Indeed they are! https://youtu.be/WzgzSnYDvz4
What is interesting is that there are going to be a reasonable amount of tuners working on the A90 bit the market in the UK is going to be tiny. The original 300 haven't sold out. How many of those will likely get a recap 10-25% and with more than 10 tuners I can think of going to be offering services, that means a whole 3-4 card per place. I spoke to one well reputed garage really and they didn't think being involved with the A90 was economical....
Good article, nice overview of the current state of the A90 tuning art.
It sounds to me like the current 475-500hp tune *is* the sweet spot, really cost-effective at under £2k, keeping the standard turbo means you're not sacrificing any response, and enough to give the standard chassis a workout without overwhelming it. 750hp sounds like it'll be a lot more money, a bit more lag, and overkill for a smallish FR coupe - unless you want to try and relaunch Midnight Club on the A3 to Portsmouth.
My only concern would be having a de-cat and de-GPF on a nearly new car, then MoTs becoming a hassle. High flow cats can often make emissions marginal for the MoT, and I'm not aware of any aftermarket high-flow GPFs, still less ones that meet the original regs. Easy for tuners to take your money now and disclaim any responsibility in three years time when the car fails its first MoT. Still, at least if you keep the stock parts you have a way out.
As far as Supra sales go, I imagine it makes sense for tuners as part of an overall B58 tuning menu that would make most of its volume on the BMWs. Here's hoping next year for a Supra with a manual gearbox, and a slightly lighter/cheaper spec pitched at a younger audience.
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