RE: Unstoppable Alfa meet immovable Audi | PH Footnote

[stickylabels]

This time last year I owned 2 Audi. An A7 Bi-Turbo and an A1 1.4tfsi. The A1 was bought brand new, the A7 was 'approved used' (main dealer in Scotland) with just under 18k miles, 1 owner, high spec etc. As of March this year I had gotten rid of both. To be fair, the A1 did prove reliable over 17k miles but was developing a lot of niggling rattles including squeaking sunroof (yes it was lubed/serviced/cleaned), the ride seemed to be deteriorating and the paintwork following suit. The A7 lasted 5 months when on the first frosty morning (-1C) so not terribly Scottish it decided that the door mirrors would swing 180 degrees the wrong way, the boot wouldn't open, couldn't get the doors opened, the fuel filler flap wouldn't open and the upshift paddle wouldn't work. The A1 parked next to it worked fine in case anyone's thinking here we go...

The usual day at the dealer, nothing wrong, here is our tech video. Upon collection, I informed the 'advisor' that wasn't really cricket. he advised I video it if it ever happened again......Well the next morning all of the above did happen, video and phots taken and sent to dealer plus a couple of calls from me.

Dealer response? Nothing, not even an oops we better get our finger out call. I rang. told them I was coming to them, see you in an hour. No one expected me when I arrived. Long story short? Took all the way to the 'Audi executive office'. We are now into a fart in a spacesuit territory with that lot.

In the end? Got shot of them both, now have a Fiesta and a Jeep, both much more interesting to drive than either of the Germans, oh and I can open the doors and refuel when it suits me. Haven't had an Alfa for a while as I don't think towbars are possible on the Stelvio (correct me if wrong there but sure I saw something on that) but I would certainly consider an Gulia or Stelvio over just about any of the German stuff when the time comes.

sticky.

[Water Fairy]

llcoolmac said:

It's one thing to claim Alfa are unreliable but when people repeatedly claim that the German cars are paragons of reliabtthats where I have the problem. Everyone and their dog who has owned any VW product knows that they have a woeful reliability track record. Very expensive cars to maintain. BMW are just as bad and they have a track record of catastrophic engine failures in their recent M cars too.

But this never seems to get mentioned in the reviews of their latest cars. Never.

I couldn't agree less.

I've had 2 Skodas, 2 Seats, 1 Jetta, T5.1 Transporter, E30, E46, 2 series Gran Tourer and barely an issue with any of them. On the other hand, the so called stereotyped unreliable cars I've had.................

Renault
Fiat
Citroen
Vauxhall....... were, without exception utter dog toffee.

[ZX10R NIN]

Alfa everytime just for the looks alone.

[ate one too]

Water Fairy said:

llcoolmac said:

It's one thing to claim Alfa are unreliable but when people repeatedly claim that the German cars are paragons of reliabtthats where I have the problem. Everyone and their dog who has owned any VW product knows that they have a woeful reliability track record. Very expensive cars to maintain. BMW are just as bad and they have a track record of catastrophic engine failures in their recent M cars too.

But this never seems to get mentioned in the reviews of their latest cars. Never.

I couldn't agree less.

I've had 2 Skodas, 2 Seats, 1 Jetta, T5.1 Transporter, E30, E46, 2 series Gran Tourer and barely an issue with any of them. On the other hand, the so called stereotyped unreliable cars I've had.................

Renault
Fiat
Citroen
Vauxhall....... were, without exception utter dog toffee.

I don't think your experiences have any relevance here, unless you are talking about new or nearly new franchised dealer serviced and warranted cars.

If all the unreliable cars you listed were old, ill maintained sheds then .....

[BVB]

The Alfa any day of the week, month, season, year, life.

[colin2296fs]

stickylabels said:

Haven't had an Alfa for a while as I don't think towbars are possible on the Stelvio (correct me if wrong there but sure I saw something on that) but I would certainly consider an Gulia or Stelvio over just about any of the German stuff when the time comes.

sticky.

No towbar for both stelvio quad or giulia quad, although when I fitted a towbar to my giulia (petrol super) there is nothing in the way that would stop one being fitted, it's just not homologated to have one, the smaller engined ones make a great towcar as well. and for me, it's still reliable with 1400kg of caravan on the back of it

Edited by colin2296fs on Monday 25th November 07:43

[Peppka]

colin2296fs said:

stickylabels said:

Haven't had an Alfa for a while as I don't think towbars are possible on the Stelvio (correct me if wrong there but sure I saw something on that) but I would certainly consider an Gulia or Stelvio over just about any of the German stuff when the time comes.

sticky.

No towbar for both stelvio or giulia quad, although when I fitted a towbar to my giulia (petrol super) there is nothing in the way that would stop one being fitted, it's just not homologated to have one, the smaller engined ones make a great towcar as well. and for me, it's still reliable with 1400kg of caravan on the back of it

Nothing to stop you fitting a towbar to a Stelvio, I know that Jamie Porter (Alfa Workshop) has fitted one to his Stelvio.
The answer with running an Alfa is to find a good independent specialist.

I have a 156 GTA supercharged to 340 BHP which is perfect for those B roads which we have in Lincolnshire.

[colin2296fs]

Yep, not on the stelvio quadrifoglio either, I've not seen one in depth but I would imagine it's just not homologated for the stevio quad as well, the rest are fine. Funny enough the towbar fitting instructions for the giulia show it being fitted to a quad!
Lovely GTA by the way.

[Gio G]

My situation a few years ago was that I was interested in Alfa QF. What I actually wanted was the coupe variant, as the rumours going around suggested one was being made and from the renders it look great..Having purchased a 595 Abarth from a local dealer as station car, I thought it would get me into the FCA brand and see what it was all about...

I test drove a QF in unfortunately damp/wet conditions and as many have mentioned, different tyres may have been better, however the constant slip on the rears, when putting the power down was for me a compromise and if you put into race, you had no chance and so many YouTube tests testify this... The dealer based in Herts mentioned that they had 3 cars written off in the space of 6 months, not sure why they wanted to tell me that... Also I was not that impressed with their service, especially when looking to part with £80k+ of my hard earned. Their cars were not well presented and prepared and my Abarth experience pretty much told me what I needed to know..

Instead I purchased an RS5 Coupe from an Audi dealer who I have dealt with for years and they looked after me. To this day have I no regrets. I appreciate it will not be the last word in driver dynamics, however it is a nice place to be, very fast and not very common and suits the UK's ever changing climate perfectly. However looking at the used classifieds - 2/3 year old QF's are starting to move towards the £30k mark, I would have to concede, compromise or not, that is one hell of a car for the money!

G

[scotnoob]

Reviewers tend to be a bit bias towards Germans but forums and comments sections are incredibly pro Alfa it seems. I would be very surprised if they could achieve the same reliability given the budgets.

The high depreciation is interesting though given the 5 year warranty. You can get 2 year old one for 35 k with 3 years warranty left. On finance I saw one with 500pm with 4K down.

[urquattroGus]

Gio G said:

My situation a few years ago was that I was interested in Alfa QF. What I actually wanted was the coupe variant, as the rumours going around suggested one was being made and from the renders it look great..Having purchased a 595 Abarth from a local dealer as station car, I thought it would get me into the FCA brand and see what it was all about...

I test drove a QF in unfortunately damp/wet conditions and as many have mentioned, different tyres may have been better, however the constant slip on the rears, when putting the power down was for me a compromise and if you put into race, you had no chance and so many YouTube tests testify this... The dealer based in Herts mentioned that they had 3 cars written off in the space of 6 months, not sure why they wanted to tell me that... Also I was not that impressed with their service, especially when looking to part with £80k+ of my hard earned. Their cars were not well presented and prepared and my Abarth experience pretty much told me what I needed to know..

Instead I purchased an RS5 Coupe from an Audi dealer who I have dealt with for years and they looked after me. To this day have I no regrets. I appreciate it will not be the last word in driver dynamics, however it is a nice place to be, very fast and not very common and suits the UK's ever changing climate perfectly. However looking at the used classifieds - 2/3 year old QF's are starting to move towards the £30k mark, I would have to concede, compromise or not, that is one hell of a car for the money!

G

The QF is a pussycat really, puts the power down really well. Bought mine for 60K new and haven't looked back. Changing the Corsa tyres is maybe the only precaution, even then I run Corsas for all year excluding November to February where the winters go on.

[maxstef]

Hello
I am looking to put some winter tyres on my Jiulia QV has anyone managed to find the correct size for both front and rear? BTW have owned a couple QV the last one being a 164QV many many years ago and they a both flawed but special in a way the German offerings can only dream of. Even my M6 (V10) was lacking in so many areas that I fell out of love with it within 18mths.

[petrolfred]

Amazing car, can't stop driving it and its its only been driven for the enjoyment. Six months from new, zero issues and done more miles than the daily car! The switchgear/infotainment gripes? Who cares, apart from the indicators and the radio volume I've hardly touched anything...

My research consisted of ignoring any hobby horse posts from people who clearly didn't own or haven't previously owned a QF.

Well pleased.

[firebird350]

Not sure how relevant this is to the thread but to any Giulia QF owners wondering about the longevity of their cars maybe they'll take comfort from my 19 years' ownership of 1993's then fastest Alfa Romeo - the 24v 164 Cloverleaf.

The car above is now on 207,000 miles on its original engine. The only 'failure' suffered by my engine resulted from a mishap during a routine cambelt change which necessitated a full top-end rebuild at 185,000 miles - just one of those things. To err is human, to forgive is divine (yeah, right!).

Gearbox rebuild at 124,000 miles (my fault after the Alfa took a bloody nose when going up against an RS4).

Despite being galvanized the jacking points caused several MOT failures over the years (have a check on the 164's MOT history - dreadful isn't it!) but some serious restoration efforts underneath seem to have knocked these problems on the head just recently. Exterior-wise the paintwork is fully original bar a re-painted bonnet, rear wings and rear doorshuts. The rest responded brilliantly to the car's first machine polish aged 24 years which showed how good the original Alfa paint was.

My 'Leaf has pretty much been a professional working car throughout its life, always living outdoors (still does in spite of being 'semi-retired' these days - rather like me!). Neither of us are garage queens although I myself don't sleep outdoors obviously.

Awesome car, the 164 Cloverleaf. Still misunderstood today but a car which Alfa invested in heavily to get right and which feels, to this day, built UP to a price rather than down to one - a similar ethos to today's Giulia from what I've read.

In all, I've spent over £30k on servicing, repairs and renovation over my 19-year ownership but if your Giulia QF does get under your skin (as my Cloverleaf has) then don't be surprised to wake up one day after many, many years to find yourself saying "Jesus, what do I replace it with?!".

[Leftfootwonder]

bakes said:

Having just put winter tyres on the car is transformed in this wet and cold period we are having. No longer do the front tyres skip when manoeuvring at low speed,.

Why is this accepted? I've heard the Stelvio's do it too? I've had a few cars in my time and never had issues with tyres 'skipping' at low speed. Very odd.

Cool cars though.

[unsprung]

Gandahar said:

More Ex Dans please.

Gandahar said:

PH needs to send a SEAL team to the USA to rescue Jethro Bovingdon from motortrend as well.

"Lieutenant Dan!"

PS: another good video and I'd go for the Alfa

[cayman-black]

Leftfootwonder said:

Why is this accepted? I've heard the Stelvio's do it too? I've had a few cars in my time and never had issues with tyres 'skipping' at low speed. Very odd.

Cool cars though.

This bulletin is supplied as technical information only and is not an authorization for repair. No part of this publication may be reproduced, stored in a retrieval system, or transmitted, in any form or by any means, electronic, mechanical, photocopying, or otherwise, without written permission of FCA US LLC.
SUBJECT:
Chattering Noise While Steering
OVERVIEW:
This bulletin involves discussing a chattering that might be heard from the Alfa Romeo Giulia front suspension.
MODELS:
2017 (GA) Alfa Romeo Giulia
NOTE: This bulletin applies to vehicles within the following markets/countries: NAFTA.
DISCUSSION:
The Alfa Romeo Giulia is characterized by unique suspension characteristics featuring patented AlfaTM Link technologies, developed in order to deliver the best dynamic performance in any driving condition.
In particular, the front double-wishbone with semi-virtual steering axle scheme allows an “Ackermann” angle change with the variation of the steering angle. Ackerman angle is described by the different steering angle between the left/right front wheels.
This feature, which is normally reserved for premium sport cars, has been the object of specific tuning by Alfa Romeo engineers to ensure the lowest vehicle understeer in any driving condition and to achieve a breakthrough in Giulia driving dynamic best in class steering feeling, enhanced safety and driving pleasure.
At the maximum steering wheel angle, the specific tuning above mentioned makes the front suspension deliver a lower steering angle from the right to left front wheels, generating a perceivable dragging phenomenon on the inner wheel, which can be perceived as a “chattering” accompanied by some noise which is influenced by one or more the following conditions:
• Driving surfaces and air temperature.
• Tires pressures.
• Tire specification, size and brand.
• Steering angle and speed of the vehicle.

[V6Alfisti]

Leftfootwonder said:

Why is this accepted? I've heard the Stelvio's do it too? I've had a few cars in my time and never had issues with tyres 'skipping' at low speed. Very odd.

Cool cars though.

Is the angle of the wheel, the same happens with some Mercedes AMG cars.

Though I suspect its a mix of the angle plus slightly less sticky tyres, so when owners change from the standard Pirelli's...they find grippier tyres don't do it.

[Mr Whippy]

So basically double wishbones used here for lots of benefits in actual driving, aren’t optimal in maximum lock ackerman, so the inside wheel rolls at a higher slip ratio than is ideal, and vibrates (like build up, and release, of forces at high frequency)

Good on AR for fitting double wishbones that a decent driving car would need to control camber and toe optimally, at the cost of a bit of poor ackerman.

[Gojira]

Mr Whippy said:

So basically double wishbones used here for lots of benefits in actual driving, aren’t optimal in maximum lock ackerman, so the inside wheel rolls at a higher slip ratio than is ideal, and vibrates (like build up, and release, of forces at high frequency)

Good on AR for fitting double wishbones that a decent driving car would need to control camber and toe optimally, at the cost of a bit of poor ackerman.

Yep, my XE is starting to do the same now it is colder, but I'll put up with it for the drive the rest of the time