Tuesday 26th November 2019

Manthey GT2 RS smashes Pista record at Hockenheim

Tuned Porsche supercar wins on home soil with a sportauto lap 2.4 seconds quicker than the Italian's

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When sportauto set a new production car lap record at Hockenheim with the Ferrari 488 Pista in June, we couldn't spot much room for improvement. In fact, it seemed like nothing short of a major power boost would be necessary to better it, given how rapid the 720hp Italian looked during its 1:45.9 lap. But five months on that time has been positively smashed by a Manthey Porsche 911 GT2 RS, in which test driver Christian Gebhard has gone 2.4 seconds quicker around the 2.8-mile circuit. That makes it the fastest road car yet on the Grand Prix layout - a very commendable 30 seconds behind Kimi Raikkonen's overall record.

The Manthey 911's new title comes almost exactly a year after it lapped the 'ring seven seconds quicker than the regular GT2 RS to set a new 6:40 record, emphasising how effective the German tuner's aerodynamic and chassis mods are. The firm's work centres around upgrading suspension and improving downforce, while leaving the boosted 3.8 flat-six in its tail in 'standard' 700hp tune. As such, the advantage over Ferrari's alternative appears to have been gained through the twisty bits of Germany's compact F1 track.

Watching the respective onboards of the Pista and Manthey GT2 RS back-to-back, the latter, rear-engined car definitely appears to have the better traction, while it's visibly more stable through the fast stuff too. But it's also clearly a handful on the limit, as any heavily turbocharged supercar of this sort on road tyres ought to be, so even if you believe comparison between two cars on different days is futile, it makes for excellent viewing

 

[Image: Manthey Racing, via Twitter]

[WCZ]

I think it's intresting just how much better the Manthey version is and how much more improved the suspension is than the standard GT2, perhaps porsche should employ them!

[RacerMike]

WCZ said:

I think it's intresting just how much better the Manthey version is and how much more improved the suspension is than the standard GT2, perhaps porsche should employ them!

They already do! All the Porsche Motorsport cars are designed and made by Manthey. So the WEC car, GT3 car and GT4 Cayman are all Manthey designed and built, and the 911 Cup cars are assembled by them. I believe it Germany at least, the Manthey upgrades don't affect your Factory Porsche warranty.

[AmosMoses]

Savage how this thing eats a track up.

[s m]

RacerMike said:

They already do! All the Porsche Motorsport cars are designed and made by Manthey. So the WEC car, GT3 car and GT4 Cayman are all Manthey designed and built, and the 911 Cup cars are assembled by them. I believe it Germany at least, the Manthey upgrades don't affect your Factory Porsche warranty.

So you can order this as a new car?

[RacerMike]

s m said:

RacerMike said:

They already do! All the Porsche Motorsport cars are designed and made by Manthey. So the WEC car, GT3 car and GT4 Cayman are all Manthey designed and built, and the 911 Cup cars are assembled by them. I believe it Germany at least, the Manthey upgrades don't affect your Factory Porsche warranty.

So you can order this as a new car?

If you have a GT2 RS you can order the Manthey upgrades yes. A snip at 95,000 Euro's for the parts and labour....

https://www.manthey-racing.de/MR_Flyer_Porsche_911...

For that you get:

MR AERODYNAMIC PACKAGE
Package consisting of front splitter, flaps, aero curtain, rear diffuser, reinforced
engine lid incl. gurney and rear wing with side plates and wing support brackets

MR SUSPENSION KIT ADJUSTABLE
Independently adjustable in rebound and compression forces and high performance race springs

MR BRAKE PAD SET
Brake pad for street- and trackday use

MR BRAIDED BRAKE LINE SET
Brake line set with layer of stainless steel woven braid for better pedal response

MR ADDITIONAL WATER TANK
Tank to enlarge the volume of the standard reservoir

MR MAGNESIUM WHEEL SET INCL. COVER RA
Weight reducing rim set with aero cover, available in brilliant silver, platinum
silver, satin black or gold

[SuperPav]

WCZ said:

perhaps porsche should employ them!

Nevermind employing them, take a guess who owns them

[Maldini35]

RacerMike said:

If you have a GT2 RS you can order the Manthey upgrades yes. A snip at 95,000 Euro's for the parts and labour....

https://www.manthey-racing.de/MR_Flyer_Porsche_911...

For that you get:

MR AERODYNAMIC PACKAGE
Package consisting of front splitter, flaps, aero curtain, rear diffuser, reinforced
engine lid incl. gurney and rear wing with side plates and wing support brackets

MR SUSPENSION KIT ADJUSTABLE
Independently adjustable in rebound and compression forces and high performance race springs

MR BRAKE PAD SET
Brake pad for street- and trackday use

MR BRAIDED BRAKE LINE SET
Brake line set with layer of stainless steel woven braid for better pedal response

MR ADDITIONAL WATER TANK
Tank to enlarge the volume of the standard reservoir

MR MAGNESIUM WHEEL SET INCL. COVER RA
Weight reducing rim set with aero cover, available in brilliant silver, platinum
silver, satin black or gold

Or just lap Hockenheim 2 seconds slower on your untimed trackday and save yourself €90k?
??

The concept of ‘value for money’ for mods like these don’t really stack up on a road car running road tyres as you’ll never really see the benefit of going a fraction faster on an untimed, non competitive event - but that’s not really the point.

People will always want the ultimate and if they have the money and the passion then why not?
After all, it’s not just carbon tatt but superbly engineered kit that actually enhances an already brilliant car.

Sure, it doesn’t make sense to a lot of people but nor does seeing some chunky middle-aged bloke huffing past on a £50k Tour De France spec road bike.

Yes they could buy a proper Race car and go faster still but this is road legal. The allure of being able to drive to the track, lap obscenely fast and then drive home is strong. Similar story with the Senna.

It’s a passion, a hobby and if people get pleasure from it, spending their own money, without hurting others then that’s ok in my book.

The car looks great to me by the way.

[SuperPav]

RacerMike said:

If you have a GT2 RS you can order the Manthey upgrades yes. A snip at 95,000 Euro's for the parts and labour....

https://www.manthey-racing.de/MR_Flyer_Porsche_911...

For that you get:

MR AERODYNAMIC PACKAGE
Package consisting of front splitter, flaps, aero curtain, rear diffuser, reinforced
engine lid incl. gurney and rear wing with side plates and wing support brackets

MR SUSPENSION KIT ADJUSTABLE
Independently adjustable in rebound and compression forces and high performance race springs

MR BRAKE PAD SET
Brake pad for street- and trackday use

MR BRAIDED BRAKE LINE SET
Brake line set with layer of stainless steel woven braid for better pedal response

MR ADDITIONAL WATER TANK
Tank to enlarge the volume of the standard reservoir

MR MAGNESIUM WHEEL SET INCL. COVER RA
Weight reducing rim set with aero cover, available in brilliant silver, platinum
silver, satin black or gold

I can't help but read all of the above as Mister! "Mr. Additional Water Tank".

[thelostboy]

I did a trackday at Imola and a guy was there in a 991.1 GT3 RS and said it had Manthey's suggested geo setup for track, and the car was a couple of seconds quicker!

I just find it odd that Porsche leave that much left in the car to extract.

[deadscoob]

Probably because the setup chews through tyres at a manufacturer unacceptable rate and the car is more nervous than they’d like?

How much quicker would a Pista be on track if you chuck 95k euros at aero and suspension?

[AmosMoses]

thelostboy said:

I did a trackday at Imola and a guy was there in a 991.1 GT3 RS and said it had Manthey's suggested geo setup for track, and the car was a couple of seconds quicker!

I just find it odd that Porsche leave that much left in the car to extract.

All OEMs leave the geometry to have a little give, they are usually set up to be understeer prone on the limit. I suspect Manthey tune the car for the more experienced driver rather than leaving it on the Joe public setting Porsche use.

[mlhj83]

thelostboy said:

I did a trackday at Imola and a guy was there in a 991.1 GT3 RS and said it had Manthey's suggested geo setup for track, and the car was a couple of seconds quicker!

I just find it odd that Porsche leave that much left in the car to extract.

It's not that Porsche didn't tune the car for maximum performance, rather, they had to compromise the setup for a balance between road and track; it says so even in the manual for GT cars. You can then have it setup specifically for track work to further extract more performance, by changing the geometry, corner balancing and adjusting the aero components. Best of both worlds really. You wouldn't want to run a huge amount of negative camber and maximum downforce for road use, as you increase wear and drag, while not gaining any of the benefits of a track setup at road speeds.

[RacerMike]

Maldini35 said:

Or just lap Hockenheim 2 seconds slower on your untimed trackday and save yourself €90k?
??

The concept of ‘value for money’ for mods like these don’t really stack up on a road car running road tyres as you’ll never really see the benefit of going a fraction faster on an untimed, non competitive event - but that’s not really the point.

People will always want the ultimate and if they have the money and the passion then why not?
After all, it’s not just carbon tatt but superbly engineered kit that actually enhances an already brilliant car.

Sure, it doesn’t make sense to a lot of people but nor does seeing some chunky middle-aged bloke huffing past on a £50k Tour De France spec road bike.

Yes they could buy a proper Race car and go faster still but this is road legal. The allure of being able to drive to the track, lap obscenely fast and then drive home is strong. Similar story with the Senna.

It’s a passion, a hobby and if people get pleasure from it, spending their own money, without hurting others then that’s ok in my book.

The car looks great to me by the way.

I guess you've sort of answered your own conundrum there. It's not really about how fast people will actually go, but how fast it can. The reality is that probably a good majority of GT2 RS owners will go barely any faster round a track than they would in a 991.1 Turbo. But the road bike analogy is exactly right. They want the bike capable of winning the TdF because it can!

thelostboy said:

I did a trackday at Imola and a guy was there in a 991.1 GT3 RS and said it had Manthey's suggested geo setup for track, and the car was a couple of seconds quicker!

I just find it odd that Porsche leave that much left in the car to extract.

The requirements of a road car really. To make the GT3 RS more track biased, you inevitably dial out some understeer and increase it's sensitivity to road imperfections due to increases in caster, camber and rake. Your average YouTuber, they'll end up in a hedge. But arguably if they've modified the car's geometry for track work, it's their fault if they stack it due to it swapping ends on them on the B4110 on a cold morning with cold Cup 2 Rs. The fact that Porsche make it easy to adjust the geo is great IMO, and all you pay (a princely sum) for from Manthey is their setup knowledge. It's perfectly possible to do the same yourself if you know what you're doing. Something JCR has done with their 991.1 GT3 RS which is night and day better than the standard car and very, very close to a .2 GT3 with a Manthey kit on it.

[isaldiri]

RacerMike said:

The requirements of a road car really. To make the GT3 RS more track biased, you inevitably dial out some understeer and increase it's sensitivity to road imperfections due to increases in caster, camber and rake. Your average YouTuber, they'll end up in a hedge. But arguably if they've modified the car's geometry for track work, it's their fault if they stack it due to it swapping ends on them on the B4110 on a cold morning with cold Cup 2 Rs. The fact that Porsche make it easy to adjust the geo is great IMO, and all you pay (a princely sum) for from Manthey is their setup knowledge..

A lot of that princely sum is for the carbon fibre aero tat.... Manthey have offered the main elements of the upgrade package for years and for way less than 95k euros. The KW adjustables and mag wheels have been buyable from the .1 rs and both together at the time would have change from 30k euros iirc (20k wheels and 10k suspension there or abouts)....

[WCZ]

Maldini35 said:

Or just lap Hockenheim 2 seconds slower on your untimed trackday and save yourself €90k?
??

The concept of ‘value for money’ for mods like these don’t really stack up on a road car running road tyres as you’ll never really see the benefit of going a fraction faster on an untimed, non competitive event - but that’s not really the point.

People will always want the ultimate and if they have the money and the passion then why not?
After all, it’s not just carbon tatt but superbly engineered kit that actually enhances an already brilliant car.

Sure, it doesn’t make sense to a lot of people but nor does seeing some chunky middle-aged bloke huffing past on a £50k Tour De France spec road bike.

Yes they could buy a proper Race car and go faster still but this is road legal. The allure of being able to drive to the track, lap obscenely fast and then drive home is strong. Similar story with the Senna.

It’s a passion, a hobby and if people get pleasure from it, spending their own money, without hurting others then that’s ok in my book.

The car looks great to me by the way.

figures aside watch the chris harris review, he was surprised just how much better the manthey car *felt* to drive aside from the laptimes

[Leftfootwonder]

deadscoob said:

Probably because the setup chews through tyres at a manufacturer unacceptable rate and the car is more nervous than they’d like?

How much quicker would a Pista be on track if you chuck 95k euros at aero and suspension?

Couldn't agree more. I accept this is all great fun but not a fair comparison in my book.

[RacerMike]

Leftfootwonder said:

deadscoob said:

Probably because the setup chews through tyres at a manufacturer unacceptable rate and the car is more nervous than they’d like?

How much quicker would a Pista be on track if you chuck 95k euros at aero and suspension?

Couldn't agree more. I accept this is all great fun but not a fair comparison in my book.

You’re assuming the Ferrari press office hadn’t already....

[Maldini35]

RacerMike said:

You’re assuming the Ferrari press office hadn’t already....

Funny because it’s true...

(Probably)

[Penguinracer]

It's always amusing to see some middle-aged guy with a BMI of 30+ enquiring how much weight the £30K carbon pack will save!

[Amizade]

Most "average" GT2RS owners don't need any more speed & the one I saw (a nice Weissach package), the owner would have been better off in a Cayenne, after going over a bridge expansion strip in damp conditions, the rear stepped out & he went into the armco so hard it ripped one of the turbos off & separated the engine & gearbox

Edited by Amizade on Monday 25th November 19:12