Best Hot Hatch of the 21st Century – nominations
Discussion
SidewaysSi said:
Got to be a Renault doesn't it? Nothing else really comes close if we are being honest.
It does doesn’t it?Which is strange as basically no one would buy or recommend a cooking model to their friends. Well, maybe a Clio as a town car, but people rave about the Fiesta in low powered versions, not so
much the Clio. Mid sized hatches don’t include the Megane on the list if it’s a run about that’s needed. Golf yes, Focus, others. Megane? Not getting a look in.
All hail RenaultSport it seems!
Macron said:
SidewaysSi said:
Got to be a Renault doesn't it? Nothing else really comes close if we are being honest.
It does doesn’t it?Which is strange as basically no one would buy or recommend a cooking model to their friends. Well, maybe a Clio as a town car, but people rave about the Fiesta in low powered versions, not so
much the Clio. Mid sized hatches don’t include the Megane on the list if it’s a run about that’s needed. Golf yes, Focus, others. Megane? Not getting a look in.
All hail RenaultSport it seems!
I can't see how it can anything other than a Renault to be honest. Peugeot had faded away by the 2000s and there has been the odd Ford which is OK but yep, Clio or Meg for me.
And yes, the transformation the RS boys do to the basic stuff is brilliant.
BenLowden said:
Best Hot Hatch of the 21st Century – as voted by PH
Yes we all love a 205 GTI, Mk1 Golf GTI and Lancia Delta Integrale. But what about something more modern from the last 20 years?
For now, lets take nominations.
Rules
Closing date for nominations: 4th December
I'll then whittle down to a shortlist for final voting and run a poll for a week until the 12th December. If there's one thing you vote for on the 12th – make sure it's your favourite hot hatch!
Take it away...
bYes we all love a 205 GTI, Mk1 Golf GTI and Lancia Delta Integrale. But what about something more modern from the last 20 years?
For now, lets take nominations.
Rules
- It had to have been launched in or after the year 2000
- Needs to be variant specific – eg. Clio 172 Cup or FK8 Civic Type R, not just Clio 172 or Civic
- Must be a road going production car
- Nominate up to three cars
- Save the conversation for after the vote – just nominations here please
Closing date for nominations: 4th December
I'll then whittle down to a shortlist for final voting and run a poll for a week until the 12th December. If there's one thing you vote for on the 12th – make sure it's your favourite hot hatch!
Take it away...
ks.We’ve had far too many of these threads all too similar and no need for another now.
They always get confused by things like 4wd turbo homolgation specials.
Simple question - what is the best hothatch should have very simple Rules - no four wheel drive turbo models and no homologation specials where only a small Number were made ( less than say 5000?).
The answer is either a Clio Willaims, 205 Gti 1.9, 306 Gti-6 /Rallye or
Megane Rs.
Integra type R does not qualify as it’s a coupe otherwise would be the winner.
Anything 4wd turbo / rally / honologation does not count it’s not a hot hatch never was so that rules out Integrale and Escort Cosworth and current breed like Golf R, Focus Rs etc
Smaller slower hot hatches like 106 1300 Rallye, 205’xs should also be included as outright top Speed/power is not the definition of a true hot hatch.
I grew up driving the original era of hot hatches and don’t consider the new generation of 300 plus bhp cars to be hot hatches.
SidewaysSi said:
Macron said:
SidewaysSi said:
Got to be a Renault doesn't it? Nothing else really comes close if we are being honest.
It does doesn’t it?Which is strange as basically no one would buy or recommend a cooking model to their friends. Well, maybe a Clio as a town car, but people rave about the Fiesta in low powered versions, not so
much the Clio. Mid sized hatches don’t include the Megane on the list if it’s a run about that’s needed. Golf yes, Focus, others. Megane? Not getting a look in.
All hail RenaultSport it seems!
I can't see how it can anything other than a Renault to be honest. Peugeot had faded away by the 2000s and there has been the odd Ford which is OK but yep, Clio or Meg for me.
And yes, the transformation the RS boys do to the basic stuff is brilliant.
And7R said:
zedx19 said:
Except fun, test drove one, wanted to love it, wanted to buy it, but found it utterly dull and was thoroughly disappointed. Kept my mk2 Focus ST instead which gets my vote, there's more competent hot hatches, better made hot hatches but for sheer fun I've found it very difficult to beat.
Not sure where all you driving gods get this impression from or maybe thats the biggest critiscism you have?Maybe read the Evo 2019 Golf R review where they state when talking about the EA888 engine that "its only accentuated by the wonderful calibration with the chassis and handling balance only the Golf exhibits".
https://www.evo.co.uk/volkswagen/golf/r
I hear the dull/boring comments a lot on here but I think they just havent been driven hard enough.
Mine's a manual and I test drove the DSG and didnt like it but only had about 15 mins to get used to it.
I tried the squeaky clutch Halfords abomination Honda Civic, the Focus RS and ST along with GTIs but once I drove the R I knew it was for me.
My vote is unsuprisingly for a Golf R mk7!
Edited by And7R on Wednesday 27th November 15:21
I've done 10s of thousands of miles in hot hatches through the last couple of decades, including several fast Golfs, Focus RS, 3 Megane RS's - the FK8 is easily the best of them all. There's almost no area that it doesn't excel at, and the 3 I've tried have perfectly silent , and perfectly weighted and placed , clutches -
So the FK8 very much my nomination -
Dblue said:
Mmm, you should probably update your EVO reviews after the FK8 Civic utterley monstered the competition , very much including the Golf R.and pretty much everything else you can buy at the moment.in the last but one issue.
I've done 10s of thousands of miles in hot hatches through the last couple of decades, including several fast Golfs, Focus RS, 3 Megane RS's - the FK8 is easily the best of them all. There's almost no area that it doesn't excel at, and the 3 I've tried have perfectly silent , and perfectly weighted and placed , clutches -
So the FK8 very much my nomination -
Found the FK8 to be a bit bland but then again I didn’t take it out on track so I couldn’t explore the full potential of it. But it’s ugly. Seriously ugly.I've done 10s of thousands of miles in hot hatches through the last couple of decades, including several fast Golfs, Focus RS, 3 Megane RS's - the FK8 is easily the best of them all. There's almost no area that it doesn't excel at, and the 3 I've tried have perfectly silent , and perfectly weighted and placed , clutches -
So the FK8 very much my nomination -
McGherkin said:
Controversial one here, but stick with me here. The Volvo C30 T5.
The C30 T5 came out in 2007 and, for the most part, mechanically it’s the same as a Mk2 Focus ST. At the time it was seen as being a bit expensive, not ‘hot’ enough, and the looks divided people.
However, a lot of the critics missed the point. They took it on track and complained that it felt numb and soft when compared with rivals like the Civic Type R. The critics who looked at it in terms of practicality complained about the lack of a 5th seat and the small boot.
However, all the ingredients were there. The engine, making 230hp and 236lbft of torque, was and still is one of the peachiest engines to have made its way into a hatchback, delivering relentless pulling power in every gear and a very different soundtrack to the regular hot-hatchery. Underneath, the Focus chassis handled better than anything Volvo had previously come up with, and whilst not sprung stiffly enough to compromise comfort, was sufficiently hard to allow the C30 to lap Hockenheim quicker than the flagship S60R despite a 70bhp deficit, and even post a time at the infamous Nordschleife quicker than the decidedly-speedy Civic EP3 Type R.
Inside, the C30 had a much more premium feel than the typical hatch of the era. Lots of aluminium and leather, and a stylish floating console set the C30 apart from the rest. You could even choose to have various bits of trim constructed from real Nordic Oak if you so wished. In terms of toys, the C30 came up well here too. All the de-facto luxury items were available, electric memory heated seats, cruise control, dual-zone climate control and auto wipers, as well as a autodimming rear-view mirror and even a full-blown car phone.
One of the highlights of the interior was the Dynaudio stereo option. The Volvo designers were targeting a younger generation and so they decided to go overboard with the audio. The top spec system delivers a great punch with decent clarity, and for a long time was one of the best sound systems available in a hatch.
All this sounds unimportant. Surely a hot hatch is about going as fast as possible? Well, not necessarily. The C30 wasn’t designed to be a track rocket, for the simple reason that most hot hatches aren’t driven primarily on the track. They’re driven on a day to day basis, to and from work or the shops, and in a world of bumpy B-roads and potholes a stiff, crashy track special just feels... compromised. The C30 managed to keep most of the pace (and arguably more over the backroads where the slightly softer suspension helps keep all 4 wheels planted), yet gains so much in driver comfort and useability.
In many ways, the C30 is less of a hot hatch and more of a mini GT. The sort of car you can cross a country with, then drop a cog and attack some backroads without struggling. One which you can drive for hours in comfortably without being noticed, but at the drop of a hat, it can put the hurt on most hot hatches without really trying.
Whilst the C30 is seen as being less practical than a typical hot hatch, it’s not really an issue if you’re the sort of person it’s made for - singles and couples. Want to take stuff to the tip? Drop the back seats. Want to take a couple of friends out on a night out? They’ll be sat comfortably in the back, which are much nicer than the conventional bench seats. Rarely, if ever, do couples need to do both at the same time, and the boot is plenty big enough for the weekly shop.
And all of this, all of it, is before we even get to one of the best bits. This is only the C30 in its standard form.
Due to the T5’s strength and due to the popularity of modifying its sister car, the C30 makes for a cracking tuning proposition. A downpipe, de/sports cat and intercooler are all you need to hit 300+bhp and more importantly 360+lbft of torque, some light handling mods and a braking system upgrade and the C30 is a different animal entirely. It becomes a very, very quick hatch, easily pulling on a lot of the top hatches of even today in a straight line and not far off when cornering either. But it doesn’t stop there. After several years of trying to get past the Volvo computer systems, AWD conversions have been cracked using S40/V50 AWD running gear, the stock arches will accept a 255 width tyre without modification and if you want to shoot for big, big power... Well, drop in a forged Focus RS block and shoot for 800+bhp. The C30 really is a blank canvas.
So yes, the C30 isn’t the most track focused hatch in the world. But it makes a fantastic day to day driver, tackling back road blasting and motorway commutes with a competency that really beggars belief. If you’re one of the ones who likes the marmite appearance, then you can make yourself one hell of a hatch sandwich.
Great write up... Got me thinking of a track car that's a little out of the boxThe C30 T5 came out in 2007 and, for the most part, mechanically it’s the same as a Mk2 Focus ST. At the time it was seen as being a bit expensive, not ‘hot’ enough, and the looks divided people.
However, a lot of the critics missed the point. They took it on track and complained that it felt numb and soft when compared with rivals like the Civic Type R. The critics who looked at it in terms of practicality complained about the lack of a 5th seat and the small boot.
However, all the ingredients were there. The engine, making 230hp and 236lbft of torque, was and still is one of the peachiest engines to have made its way into a hatchback, delivering relentless pulling power in every gear and a very different soundtrack to the regular hot-hatchery. Underneath, the Focus chassis handled better than anything Volvo had previously come up with, and whilst not sprung stiffly enough to compromise comfort, was sufficiently hard to allow the C30 to lap Hockenheim quicker than the flagship S60R despite a 70bhp deficit, and even post a time at the infamous Nordschleife quicker than the decidedly-speedy Civic EP3 Type R.
Inside, the C30 had a much more premium feel than the typical hatch of the era. Lots of aluminium and leather, and a stylish floating console set the C30 apart from the rest. You could even choose to have various bits of trim constructed from real Nordic Oak if you so wished. In terms of toys, the C30 came up well here too. All the de-facto luxury items were available, electric memory heated seats, cruise control, dual-zone climate control and auto wipers, as well as a autodimming rear-view mirror and even a full-blown car phone.
One of the highlights of the interior was the Dynaudio stereo option. The Volvo designers were targeting a younger generation and so they decided to go overboard with the audio. The top spec system delivers a great punch with decent clarity, and for a long time was one of the best sound systems available in a hatch.
All this sounds unimportant. Surely a hot hatch is about going as fast as possible? Well, not necessarily. The C30 wasn’t designed to be a track rocket, for the simple reason that most hot hatches aren’t driven primarily on the track. They’re driven on a day to day basis, to and from work or the shops, and in a world of bumpy B-roads and potholes a stiff, crashy track special just feels... compromised. The C30 managed to keep most of the pace (and arguably more over the backroads where the slightly softer suspension helps keep all 4 wheels planted), yet gains so much in driver comfort and useability.
In many ways, the C30 is less of a hot hatch and more of a mini GT. The sort of car you can cross a country with, then drop a cog and attack some backroads without struggling. One which you can drive for hours in comfortably without being noticed, but at the drop of a hat, it can put the hurt on most hot hatches without really trying.
Whilst the C30 is seen as being less practical than a typical hot hatch, it’s not really an issue if you’re the sort of person it’s made for - singles and couples. Want to take stuff to the tip? Drop the back seats. Want to take a couple of friends out on a night out? They’ll be sat comfortably in the back, which are much nicer than the conventional bench seats. Rarely, if ever, do couples need to do both at the same time, and the boot is plenty big enough for the weekly shop.
And all of this, all of it, is before we even get to one of the best bits. This is only the C30 in its standard form.
Due to the T5’s strength and due to the popularity of modifying its sister car, the C30 makes for a cracking tuning proposition. A downpipe, de/sports cat and intercooler are all you need to hit 300+bhp and more importantly 360+lbft of torque, some light handling mods and a braking system upgrade and the C30 is a different animal entirely. It becomes a very, very quick hatch, easily pulling on a lot of the top hatches of even today in a straight line and not far off when cornering either. But it doesn’t stop there. After several years of trying to get past the Volvo computer systems, AWD conversions have been cracked using S40/V50 AWD running gear, the stock arches will accept a 255 width tyre without modification and if you want to shoot for big, big power... Well, drop in a forged Focus RS block and shoot for 800+bhp. The C30 really is a blank canvas.
So yes, the C30 isn’t the most track focused hatch in the world. But it makes a fantastic day to day driver, tackling back road blasting and motorway commutes with a competency that really beggars belief. If you’re one of the ones who likes the marmite appearance, then you can make yourself one hell of a hatch sandwich.
thelostboy said:
Clio 172 Cup.
I have a Trophy, but the Cup is a little rawer and ultimately the quickest. I prefer having air con in the Trophy, but respect the Cup's pared back commitment and homoglation connection!
I concur. I have one of the very last Trophys. Kept for posterity. But I bought a new 172 cup in 2003 and it was an absolute hoot, every mile. I drove it like I'd stolen it for 150k hard miles and it never failed to bring a smile to my face and never let me down. Raw, visceral, no tricks, 3 pedals, no ABS, seat of your pants on the ragged edge, scare the sheet out of yourself fun. Great feedback from the chassis, no bells or whistles at all.I have a Trophy, but the Cup is a little rawer and ultimately the quickest. I prefer having air con in the Trophy, but respect the Cup's pared back commitment and homoglation connection!
For me, and I've driven a good number of HH over the years, the very best.
I'm looking for one now to stick next to the Trophy in the garage!
For me it would be either:
Clio182 FF with cup packs, the Michelin pilot exalto's were something else back in the day. I had one, sold it, got a Merc then sold the Merc and got another 182 FF cup.
Or...
Mk7 fiesta ST. Felt the complete package when I ditched the Bridgestones for michelins.
Clio182 FF with cup packs, the Michelin pilot exalto's were something else back in the day. I had one, sold it, got a Merc then sold the Merc and got another 182 FF cup.
Or...
Mk7 fiesta ST. Felt the complete package when I ditched the Bridgestones for michelins.
rallycross said:
Pericoloso said:
Quoted the thread rules of "introduced after year 2000" and posted cars all much older than that date.
LOL at massive thread fail.
41000 posts yet seemingly unable to read. Well done;LOL at massive thread fail.
WTF has post count got to do with anything ?
Weak argument when you know you're wrong.
DoubleD said:
SidewaysSi said:
Macron said:
SidewaysSi said:
Got to be a Renault doesn't it? Nothing else really comes close if we are being honest.
It does doesn’t it?Which is strange as basically no one would buy or recommend a cooking model to their friends. Well, maybe a Clio as a town car, but people rave about the Fiesta in low powered versions, not so
much the Clio. Mid sized hatches don’t include the Megane on the list if it’s a run about that’s needed. Golf yes, Focus, others. Megane? Not getting a look in.
All hail RenaultSport it seems!
I can't see how it can anything other than a Renault to be honest. Peugeot had faded away by the 2000s and there has been the odd Ford which is OK but yep, Clio or Meg for me.
And yes, the transformation the RS boys do to the basic stuff is brilliant.
Honda Mugen 20. Brilliant car, the sharpest tool in the hot hatch box in my view - much sharper than an R26R for example. Brilliant engine, diff, noise, seats, gear change, brakes, and handling. But a bit stiff for some roads.
Very rarely come up for sale as there were only 16 originally sold, but the “press” car is now for sale.
https://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/...
The Clio V6 is also right up there, not for its outright driving ability, but for sheer fun and character.
Very rarely come up for sale as there were only 16 originally sold, but the “press” car is now for sale.
https://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/...
The Clio V6 is also right up there, not for its outright driving ability, but for sheer fun and character.
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