Best Hot Hatch of the 21st Century – nominations
Discussion
tony dumble said:
R26r boring lol you obviously never owned one . driven one or even been in one
He said he owned one for 3/4 years from new.It surely depends if you find FWD cars boring or not, they're extremely capable I'm sure but what happens when you push them to the limit? I think even the most exciting FWD cars are boring compared to an equivalent RWD car.
I found that lift off oversteer was fun occasionally but it doesn't compare to holding a slide in a RWD car and being able to apply the power earlier in a corner to rotate a car and then use that rotatation to set up the exit and power out of it. There's just a much nicer flow and balance.
I'm sure now there'll be comparisons between some track tuned FWD car to a M140i but if you even think of doing that, at least do a like for like comparison with the cars and pick something that was designed for the track.
PHuzzy said:
He said he owned one for 3/4 years from new.
It surely depends if you find FWD cars boring or not, they're extremely capable I'm sure but what happens when you push them to the limit? I think even the most exciting FWD cars are boring compared to an equivalent RWD car.
I found that lift off oversteer was fun occasionally but it doesn't compare to holding a slide in a RWD car and being able to apply the power earlier in a corner to rotate a car and then use that rotatation to set up the exit and power out of it. There's just a much nicer flow and balance.
I'm sure now there'll be comparisons between some track tuned FWD car to a M140i but if you even think of doing that, at least do a like for like comparison with the cars and pick something that was designed for the track.
Fair point I’ve been lucky enough to have owned my fair share of cars escorts sapphires m3 rs focus ect but for some reason I have taken too the megane R26r just love it It surely depends if you find FWD cars boring or not, they're extremely capable I'm sure but what happens when you push them to the limit? I think even the most exciting FWD cars are boring compared to an equivalent RWD car.
I found that lift off oversteer was fun occasionally but it doesn't compare to holding a slide in a RWD car and being able to apply the power earlier in a corner to rotate a car and then use that rotatation to set up the exit and power out of it. There's just a much nicer flow and balance.
I'm sure now there'll be comparisons between some track tuned FWD car to a M140i but if you even think of doing that, at least do a like for like comparison with the cars and pick something that was designed for the track.
Leins said:
Just curious if you’ve driven a MINI GP1? Very similar spec, albeit without back seats
No, but I don't like the new Mini format. And turbocharged.Quite a big car with very little room ...
It is certainly true that I have not driven all the contenders in this extensive group.
But I have owned and driven : RS2000. RS Turbo. Clio 16v. Trophy. 205 GTI 1.9. Honda Integra (the first one !). R26. Impreza P1. Polo GTI. Toyota GRMN.
As for expensive small cars ... 964RS LHD / RHD / Clubsport / 993RS / 996 GT3 Mi.Mk2.RS. Turbo X51. 997 GT3. 3.6. 3.8.4.0.GT2. GT2RS. GT4.
By comparison to which I am loving my GRMN. A fantastic chassis (if a little hard over speed bumps) ... and just as much fun as my now heavily modified GT4 .. but at sane speeds. My GT4 is now used predominately as a track car.
ChrisW. said:
No, but I don't like the new Mini format. And turbocharged.
Quite a big car with very little room ...
It is certainly true that I have not driven all the contenders in this extensive group.
But I have owned and driven : RS2000. RS Turbo. Clio 16v. Trophy. 205 GTI 1.9. Honda Integra (the first one !). R26. Impreza P1. Polo GTI. Toyota GRMN.
As for expensive small cars ... 964RS LHD / RHD / Clubsport / 993RS / 996 GT3 Mi.Mk2.RS. Turbo X51. 997 GT3. 3.6. 3.8.4.0.GT2. GT2RS. GT4.
By comparison to which I am loving my GRMN. A fantastic chassis (if a little hard over speed bumps) ... and just as much fun as my now heavily modified GT4 .. but at sane speeds. My GT4 is now used predominately as a track car.
How does the GRMN compare to the other hot hatches in your view. Especially the Teg, which I think is a superb car. Quite a big car with very little room ...
It is certainly true that I have not driven all the contenders in this extensive group.
But I have owned and driven : RS2000. RS Turbo. Clio 16v. Trophy. 205 GTI 1.9. Honda Integra (the first one !). R26. Impreza P1. Polo GTI. Toyota GRMN.
As for expensive small cars ... 964RS LHD / RHD / Clubsport / 993RS / 996 GT3 Mi.Mk2.RS. Turbo X51. 997 GT3. 3.6. 3.8.4.0.GT2. GT2RS. GT4.
By comparison to which I am loving my GRMN. A fantastic chassis (if a little hard over speed bumps) ... and just as much fun as my now heavily modified GT4 .. but at sane speeds. My GT4 is now used predominately as a track car.
ChrisW. said:
Leins said:
Just curious if you’ve driven a MINI GP1? Very similar spec, albeit without back seats
No, but I don't like the new Mini format. And turbocharged.Quite a big car with very little room ...
As a 50-something, it bugs me that, in this century, the Mk I Golf is always mentioned in preference to the Mk II Golf. The Mk 1 broke the mould, and is arguably prettier; but the Mk II is the better car, by far. Any VW-head who drove those cars in period knows that. As to cars in this century? No meaningful direct experience of any of them.
My dad owned a brand new Clio 172, my son only found that out today and was hugely impressed his 60 something granddad rolled around in one
As the 182 and 172 seem to be the popular choice can someone please explain the differences between a boggo 182, 182 cup and 182 trophy as I think I need one in my life!
As the 182 and 172 seem to be the popular choice can someone please explain the differences between a boggo 182, 182 cup and 182 trophy as I think I need one in my life!
Wolf13 said:
Renaultsport Twingo 133.
This car really surprised me. I rate it higher than the e46 M3, Lotus Elise S and Abarth 595c I came from for real world, usable fun especially if you live in a city environment. You can fling it about in a way I never felt confident with to do with the others.The car has no real kudos other than with those in the know but, boy is it fun.
I concur, my wife purchased hers in 2010 and after changing my car every couple of years, the Twingo 133 is still with us!! Whilst it is the slowest car we have owned it is surprisingly the most fun!! Factor in great practicality with the sliding rear seats and almost zero running costs it ticks all the hot hatch boxes for me. This car really surprised me. I rate it higher than the e46 M3, Lotus Elise S and Abarth 595c I came from for real world, usable fun especially if you live in a city environment. You can fling it about in a way I never felt confident with to do with the others.The car has no real kudos other than with those in the know but, boy is it fun.
PHuzzy said:
I'm sure now there'll be comparisons between some track tuned FWD car to a M140i but if you even think of doing that, at least do a like for like comparison with the cars and pick something that was designed for the track.
Which RWD hot hatch would you pick that was designed for the track, to compare it to a standard FWD hot hatch like the Civic or Megane Cup? nickfrog said:
PHuzzy said:
I'm sure now there'll be comparisons between some track tuned FWD car to a M140i but if you even think of doing that, at least do a like for like comparison with the cars and pick something that was designed for the track.
Which RWD hot hatch would you pick that was designed for the track, to compare it to a standard FWD hot hatch like the Civic or Megane Cup? marine boy said:
My dad owned a brand new Clio 172, my son only found that out today and was hugely impressed his 60 something granddad rolled around in one
As the 182 and 172 seem to be the popular choice can someone please explain the differences between a boggo 182, 182 cup and 182 trophy as I think I need one in my life!
182 non cup / full fat - has xenons , climate control , sits highest and is heaviest but still a decent car.As the 182 and 172 seem to be the popular choice can someone please explain the differences between a boggo 182, 182 cup and 182 trophy as I think I need one in my life!
182 full fat with cup pack - as above but with bigger rear spoiler , front splitter , stiffer/lower suspension , different wheels.
182 cup - as above but without xenons or climate control , has manual aircon .
Trophy - sachs remote resevoir dampers , recaro seats , speedline wheels , just a much lighter , stiffer , lower car and it has the rear spoiler from the v6.
egor110 said:
marine boy said:
My dad owned a brand new Clio 172, my son only found that out today and was hugely impressed his 60 something granddad rolled around in one
As the 182 and 172 seem to be the popular choice can someone please explain the differences between a boggo 182, 182 cup and 182 trophy as I think I need one in my life!
182 non cup / full fat - has xenons , climate control , sits highest and is heaviest but still a decent car.As the 182 and 172 seem to be the popular choice can someone please explain the differences between a boggo 182, 182 cup and 182 trophy as I think I need one in my life!
182 full fat with cup pack - as above but with bigger rear spoiler , front splitter , stiffer/lower suspension , different wheels.
182 cup - as above but without xenons or climate control , has manual aircon .
Trophy - sachs remote resevoir dampers , recaro seats , speedline wheels , just a much lighter , stiffer , lower car and it has the rear spoiler from the v6.
The 172 Cup was the only one with real weight reduction spec:
- Thinner/lighter glass
- Lighter wheels
- No spare wheel
- No AC (was an option on last batch)
- Less sound deadening/insulation
Patrick Bateman said:
Didn't think any of them had a spare wheel either.
172 Cup didn't, came with a can of gunk. All the Trophy has are trick dampers (expensive to replace/maintain & easy to replicate) & nice seats that can be bought & fitted to anything.
As an every day car the Trophy would win, as a fun car the 172 Cup all day every day & twice on sundays.
Patrick Bateman said:
I wouldn't say the Sachs was more compliant, assuming you're meaning a more comfortable ride.
Didn't think any of them had a spare wheel either.
182 didn't. Think the 172 had a space saver at least.Didn't think any of them had a spare wheel either.
Trophy I sat in certainly felt like a smoother ride down a B-road than the 172 Cup I had at the time. The 182 Cup suspension is stiffer than that on the 172 Cup.
Surely the whole point in the Sachs dampers is they have a wider operating window and keep the car in good contact with the road more of the time.
Edited by Zarco on Sunday 1st December 10:19
Zarco said:
182 didn't. Think the 172 had a space saver at least.
Trophy I sat in certainly felt like a smoother ride down a B-road than the 172 Cup I had at the time. The 182 Cup suspension is stiffer than that on the 172 Cup.
Surely the whole point in the Sachs dampers is they have a wider operating window and keep the car in good contact with the road more of the time.
They're very effective at that, no matter how rough the road gets the car feels completely nailed down, it just isn't very comfortable.Trophy I sat in certainly felt like a smoother ride down a B-road than the 172 Cup I had at the time. The 182 Cup suspension is stiffer than that on the 172 Cup.
Surely the whole point in the Sachs dampers is they have a wider operating window and keep the car in good contact with the road more of the time.
Edited by Zarco on Sunday 1st December 10:19
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