Best Hot Hatch of the 21st Century – nominations
Discussion
It is slightly chucklesome, to me anyway, the amount of nominations for the Focus RS 3, which is heavily derived from the CS 400, except the Focus was fitted with the wrong HG ( they used the same HG they used on the Mustang with the 2.3 turbo motor) and it caused Ford a lot of issues. They also seemed to have made the bottom ends from cheese ( that’s causing them issues now ). They needed to put the bits from the scooby, into the Focus shell, verbatim, and it would have been spot on. At least they put a ring around the issue.
GOATever said:
It is slightly chucklesome, to me anyway, the amount of nominations for the Focus RS 3, which is heavily derived from the CS 400, except the Focus was fitted with the wrong HG ( they used the same HG they used on the Mustang with the 2.3 turbo motor) and it caused Ford a lot of issues. They also seemed to have made the bottom ends from cheese ( that’s causing them issues now ). They needed to put the bits from the scooby, into the Focus shell, verbatim, and it would have been spot on. At least they put a ring around the issue.
Anybody care to translate this in to comprehensible English?
I’ve always said a hot hatch needs to be everything to everyone.
It has to be simple, practical and affordable.
Further more should less the 2 litres, powering the front wheels. A M140i or a A45 break all my rules.
The lad on the shop floor should be able to give his managers 911 or fancy Audi a bloody nose.
So my vote goes to the MK7 Fiesta ST
One of the best hot hatches of all time, no driver modes or exhaust changeable button, it all it is out of the box
Would have said the Mini R53 JCW, but the JCW engine was a £5k option and other then the front seats the rest of the car not very practical
It has to be simple, practical and affordable.
Further more should less the 2 litres, powering the front wheels. A M140i or a A45 break all my rules.
The lad on the shop floor should be able to give his managers 911 or fancy Audi a bloody nose.
So my vote goes to the MK7 Fiesta ST
One of the best hot hatches of all time, no driver modes or exhaust changeable button, it all it is out of the box
Would have said the Mini R53 JCW, but the JCW engine was a £5k option and other then the front seats the rest of the car not very practical
LukeSi said:
Clio 172 cup
Last hot hatch to come with no aircon, no abs. It was cheaper than the normal one while being so much more special. Last proper hot hatch.
I agree, I miss HD52GZK, I did 90k miles in it over 4 years, my first company car, so much fun.Last hot hatch to come with no aircon, no abs. It was cheaper than the normal one while being so much more special. Last proper hot hatch.
Currently in an A35, miles faster but miles less fun.
Edited by RichA35 on Sunday 1st December 19:59
PHuzzy said:
nickfrog said:
PHuzzy said:
nickfrog said:
PHuzzy said:
I'm sure now there'll be comparisons between some track tuned FWD car to a M140i but if you even think of doing that, at least do a like for like comparison with the cars and pick something that was designed for the track.
Which RWD hot hatch would you pick that was designed for the track, to compare it to a standard FWD hot hatch like the Civic or Megane Cup? No one makes a RWD track focussed hot hatch because that's not the point of a hot hatch, there are lots of track focussed RWD cars though that are better than the ones you mentioned because that's what they're designed for.
Against which car(s).. The stripped out 2 seat Megane and Civic? Or just the non limited edition regular versions?
All these votes for the 182 Trophy instead of the 172 cup surprise me. I’ve owned two 172 cups (out of five Clio 172/182’s in total) and driven a 182, Trophy so these are my thoughts:
Firstly, credit where credit is due, the 182 Trophy is more comfortable due to the Recaros, climate control, and cruise control, and quieter due to the additional sound deadening. It also requires less skill in poor conditions due to the ABS and EBD. The Sachs suspension is great but it’s not enough to make it the best in the range.
In contrast, you can easily fit decent coilovers and Recaros in the 172 cup and you end up with an hugely capable car. The 172 cup gives the most pure and involving driving experience out of the two models; the lack of ABS gives better braking feedback when pushing on, the slightly softer suspension, lack of EBD and lower weight enables the car to move around better over good driving roads, and you get to hear more exhaust and induction noise in the process.
Due to all he creature comforts in the 182 Trophy it is 10% heavier than a 172 cup and only a couple of bhp more (182’s don’t have 10bhp more than the 172 despite the name).
Overall, I don’t think there has been a more involving and enjoyable hot hatch than the 172 cup in the past 20 years and if I had the choice of both these models when going out for a weekend blast, the Trophy keys would be left on the table.
Firstly, credit where credit is due, the 182 Trophy is more comfortable due to the Recaros, climate control, and cruise control, and quieter due to the additional sound deadening. It also requires less skill in poor conditions due to the ABS and EBD. The Sachs suspension is great but it’s not enough to make it the best in the range.
In contrast, you can easily fit decent coilovers and Recaros in the 172 cup and you end up with an hugely capable car. The 172 cup gives the most pure and involving driving experience out of the two models; the lack of ABS gives better braking feedback when pushing on, the slightly softer suspension, lack of EBD and lower weight enables the car to move around better over good driving roads, and you get to hear more exhaust and induction noise in the process.
Due to all he creature comforts in the 182 Trophy it is 10% heavier than a 172 cup and only a couple of bhp more (182’s don’t have 10bhp more than the 172 despite the name).
Overall, I don’t think there has been a more involving and enjoyable hot hatch than the 172 cup in the past 20 years and if I had the choice of both these models when going out for a weekend blast, the Trophy keys would be left on the table.
Hmmm a difficult one. I’d say
1) Golf 7 GTI for being a perfect all rounder. Fun on a B road, and a track, comfortable over long distances and does over 40mpg. Very safe and enough space for a wife, and baby and baby stuff!
2) Focus MK1 RS. A great car, but too extreme for me in the end as an everyday car (lost out to a MK2 ST3 that fitted my needs better at the time)
3) hmm for the final spot, so many different options. The 135i was great, but I found it boring apart from the noise (subjective I know!), never been a Civic man but I do respect the build. I did enjoy the RenaultSport Clio 197 I drove, but I think the Cosworth Impreza hatch would be my number 3 choice.......or maybe the Alfa 147. Hmmm too many choices!
1) Golf 7 GTI for being a perfect all rounder. Fun on a B road, and a track, comfortable over long distances and does over 40mpg. Very safe and enough space for a wife, and baby and baby stuff!
2) Focus MK1 RS. A great car, but too extreme for me in the end as an everyday car (lost out to a MK2 ST3 that fitted my needs better at the time)
3) hmm for the final spot, so many different options. The 135i was great, but I found it boring apart from the noise (subjective I know!), never been a Civic man but I do respect the build. I did enjoy the RenaultSport Clio 197 I drove, but I think the Cosworth Impreza hatch would be my number 3 choice.......or maybe the Alfa 147. Hmmm too many choices!
RT7500 said:
All these votes for the 182 Trophy instead of the 172 cup surprise me. I’ve owned two 172 cups (out of five Clio 172/182’s in total) and driven a 182, Trophy so these are my thoughts:
Firstly, credit where credit is due, the 182 Trophy is more comfortable due to the Recaros, climate control, and cruise control, and quieter due to the additional sound deadening. It also requires less skill in poor conditions due to the ABS and EBD. The Sachs suspension is great but it’s not enough to make it the best in the range.
In contrast, you can easily fit decent coilovers and Recaros in the 172 cup and you end up with an hugely capable car. The 172 cup gives the most pure and involving driving experience out of the two models; the lack of ABS gives better braking feedback when pushing on, the slightly softer suspension, lack of EBD and lower weight enables the car to move around better over good driving roads, and you get to hear more exhaust and induction noise in the process.
Due to all he creature comforts in the 182 Trophy it is 10% heavier than a 172 cup and only a couple of bhp more (182’s don’t have 10bhp more than the 172 despite the name).
Overall, I don’t think there has been a more involving and enjoyable hot hatch than the 172 cup in the past 20 years and if I had the choice of both these models when going out for a weekend blast, the Trophy keys would be left on the table.
172 CupFirstly, credit where credit is due, the 182 Trophy is more comfortable due to the Recaros, climate control, and cruise control, and quieter due to the additional sound deadening. It also requires less skill in poor conditions due to the ABS and EBD. The Sachs suspension is great but it’s not enough to make it the best in the range.
In contrast, you can easily fit decent coilovers and Recaros in the 172 cup and you end up with an hugely capable car. The 172 cup gives the most pure and involving driving experience out of the two models; the lack of ABS gives better braking feedback when pushing on, the slightly softer suspension, lack of EBD and lower weight enables the car to move around better over good driving roads, and you get to hear more exhaust and induction noise in the process.
Due to all he creature comforts in the 182 Trophy it is 10% heavier than a 172 cup and only a couple of bhp more (182’s don’t have 10bhp more than the 172 despite the name).
Overall, I don’t think there has been a more involving and enjoyable hot hatch than the 172 cup in the past 20 years and if I had the choice of both these models when going out for a weekend blast, the Trophy keys would be left on the table.
I totally agree.
The need for a 'station car' meant I picked up a cheap 172 Cup last year (15 years since my last one).
It was just as much fun as I remembered but I wanted to make a couple of improvements.
I picked up a set of Recaro's from an Evo (£250) along with some of the legendary lowered seat mounts and refreshed the suspension with OEM Cup dampers (£100 for all 4!), new bushes and Eibach lowered springs.
The car is now brilliant. It handles superbly, so direct - and just adding the seats make it feel much more special inside.
I've spent some time in a Trophy and whilst it was great, I prefer the slightly more raw experience of the Cup. Especially given the comparative costs.
I've been lucky enough to drive a lot of nice stuff over the years but only a few cars have ever really got under my skin:
-Lotus Elan Plus 2 (weird looking but sublime to drive on a country road)
-Porsche 964 C2 (did the everyday duties and still managed to feel special)
-Ferrari 355 (an event from opening the garage door)
-McLaren 720S (delicate fingertip feel combined with Space Shuttle thrust)
& the Renault Clio 172 Cup
It was supposed to be a disposable shed but I can't imagine ever selling it.
Allez Renaultsport.
RT7500 said:
All these votes for the 182 Trophy instead of the 172 cup surprise me. I’ve owned two 172 cups (out of five Clio 172/182’s in total) and driven a 182, Trophy so these are my thoughts:
Firstly, credit where credit is due, the 182 Trophy is more comfortable due to the Recaros, climate control, and cruise control, and quieter due to the additional sound deadening. It also requires less skill in poor conditions due to the ABS and EBD. The Sachs suspension is great but it’s not enough to make it the best in the range.
.
It really depends on where you draw the line and what you use the car for. My wife rejected the Trophy for being too uncomfortable in the rear - otherwise I would have bought one. Anything more raw than the Trophy would had to be a weekend toy or limited to shorter journeys for me - in effect a thrid car. A Twingo 133 with the cup chassis, for example, was also too raw to be a reasonable all rounder for us. (surprised it hasn't had an honourable mention though by some hardy soul).Firstly, credit where credit is due, the 182 Trophy is more comfortable due to the Recaros, climate control, and cruise control, and quieter due to the additional sound deadening. It also requires less skill in poor conditions due to the ABS and EBD. The Sachs suspension is great but it’s not enough to make it the best in the range.
.
For me, it has to be the Mk2 Ford Focus ST. That engine just oozes character. It sticks to the road, pulls hard in any gear, makes a great sound and looks pretty decent, even these days. It's definitely not the most deft handling car, the fastest car, or potentially the best hot hatch to drive, but as an all round package, I don't think you can beat it.
I've owned mine for 5 years now it's barely given me any issues (clocks needed replacing and ST DMF went, replaced with RS clutch). Other than now requiring a suspension refresh (the car is 13 years old, on standard shocks with lowering springs) it still drives fantastic. I genuinely love it, and when I eventually sell it on, I know it'll be a sad day.
I've owned mine for 5 years now it's barely given me any issues (clocks needed replacing and ST DMF went, replaced with RS clutch). Other than now requiring a suspension refresh (the car is 13 years old, on standard shocks with lowering springs) it still drives fantastic. I genuinely love it, and when I eventually sell it on, I know it'll be a sad day.
roystinho said:
The 172 Cup v 182 Trophy thing... is it ok to say stick some better seats and suspension in the 172 as a viable answer in this case? Surely the question is out of the box? So for me, out of the box the Trophy wins
No as then you go down the whole modified vs unmodded route and where do you draw the line?lemmingjames said:
No as then you go down the whole modified vs unmodded route and where do you draw the line?
Yes I do agree to be honest, although I still maintain the 172 cup is a ‘better’ hot hatch than the 182 Trophy straight out the box. The trouble is, my interpretation of ‘better’ means the most involving driving experience. Whereas other people might be looking for something else. Renault Sports certainly don’t excel if you’re looking for comfort, reliability or fuel economy. There are also a multitude of quicker hot hatches out there.
I use my 172 for a short commute to work, weekend blasts and track days, and absolutely love it. It can also take two baby seats in the back when the mrs takes the other car. While I’d love a 2 seater such as an S2000 or Boxster S, the Clio makes a stronger case for itself as an all round fun car with a nod to practicality.
Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff