Best Hot Hatch of the 21st Century – nominations
Discussion
mstrbkr said:
Zarco said:
mstrbkr said:
Another vote for 172 Cup. I replaced mine with an S2000 but I enjoyed the Clio more.
Not only genuinely quicker than the standard car, it was £2100 (14%) cheaper than the regular 172 (£15095 > £12995).
How many other examples are there of special "track" versions being cheaper than the base car? (Not making a statement. I'm actually wondering).
Renault took parts away (air con, ABS, leather, traction control, xenon lights) and gave those savings straight to the customer. But they also added new parts like the lighter speedline wheels, the cup spoiler, thinner glass, and the unique paint colour.
I think Renault absolutely smashed it with that car.
Great summary. Not only genuinely quicker than the standard car, it was £2100 (14%) cheaper than the regular 172 (£15095 > £12995).
How many other examples are there of special "track" versions being cheaper than the base car? (Not making a statement. I'm actually wondering).
Renault took parts away (air con, ABS, leather, traction control, xenon lights) and gave those savings straight to the customer. But they also added new parts like the lighter speedline wheels, the cup spoiler, thinner glass, and the unique paint colour.
I think Renault absolutely smashed it with that car.
Getting me all misty eye'd about my old Cup now. So many adventures in that car.
Gad-Westy said:
Zarco said:
Niffty951 said:
kentheribs said:
Clio 182 trophy, small, light, just the right power to weight ratio to maximise the fun factor
The Clio has the mk1 Elise problem for me. Great chassis but not enough power to exploit it. To be fair I've only been in the 197 and 200 but a assume what applies to those applies to this. Also it's just not a place I want to spend time when I'm not driving like a demon.Surely an all time great is defined my its depth of ability but the interior is about as comforting as a van.
I guess maybe on track, things are different but I've always seen hot hatches as being at home on fiddly little roads rather than big wide expanses of tarmac.
alanbradley said:
Absolute bias, but the Yaris GRMN was the final raw hot hatch. No modes, no synthetic exhaust, no electronic pseudo-differential, just light weight and mechanical engineering...
Totally agree with you as I have one also , trouble is there s only about 90 in this country so most people have never even seen one let alone driven one , and still about 19k for a used one , that alone puts most people off , but they are definitely worth the cash . Peach of an engine in a lightweight car with 4 seats perfect hot hatch recipe. 
Petrolsmasher said:
How on earth has the fiesta st180 hardly been mentioned, rated one of the best hot hatches and won hot hatch of the year. Thats my vote anyway. Light nimble, quick enough with a playfull rear end for a fwd.
Probably due to judging by what people are suggesting, the ages of posters will be 30+ and have, in the majority, moved on from hot hatches. Plus at the time of the golden hot hatch era (ie before modern technology was properly introduced and you had to work the car to a certain degree), the Fiesta was a super mini.According to Evo (which was Porsche and Renault biased at the time), they put the R26.R in at no.5, and Clio Trophy 2005 @ joint 7th in the overall drivers car in 2009. They seemed to limit it to UKDM cars only.
Which is abit odd as they used to rate the ITR DC2 as being the best FWD drivers car (22nd ) and at the back of the same said mag, they prefer the Focus RS (39th) as a day to day car over the R26R in the which thing is best section.
It would be interesting to see a 'millennial' try the EP3, Megane non R26R (too stripped out), Clio and something else and see which ones they prefer as id have said theres alot of bias going on in nominations
lemmingjames said:
Probably due to judging by what people are suggesting, the ages of posters will be 30+ and have, in the majority, moved on from hot hatches. Plus at the time of the golden hot hatch era (ie before modern technology was properly introduced and you had to work the car to a certain degree), the Fiesta was a super mini.
According to Evo (which was Porsche and Renault biased at the time), they put the R26.R in at no.5, and Clio Trophy 2005 @ joint 7th in the overall drivers car in 2009. They seemed to limit it to UKDM cars only.
Which is abit odd as they used to rate the ITR DC2 as being the best FWD drivers car (22nd ) and at the back of the same said mag, they prefer the Focus RS (39th) as a day to day car over the R26R in the which thing is best section.
It would be interesting to see a 'millennial' try the EP3, Megane non R26R (too stripped out), Clio and something else and see which ones they prefer as id have said theres alot of bias going on in nominations
There will always be bias in these discussions. What would make it a much more valuable discussion would be posters’ experience of hot hatches generally. Someone who’s never driven car a, nominating car a because they read it was good is unhelpful. As might be situations where posters have limited experience of hot hatches. A reference point is gold. According to Evo (which was Porsche and Renault biased at the time), they put the R26.R in at no.5, and Clio Trophy 2005 @ joint 7th in the overall drivers car in 2009. They seemed to limit it to UKDM cars only.
Which is abit odd as they used to rate the ITR DC2 as being the best FWD drivers car (22nd ) and at the back of the same said mag, they prefer the Focus RS (39th) as a day to day car over the R26R in the which thing is best section.
It would be interesting to see a 'millennial' try the EP3, Megane non R26R (too stripped out), Clio and something else and see which ones they prefer as id have said theres alot of bias going on in nominations
Having owned the following:
Clio 182 FF with cup packs - Owned for 4.5 years, sold to buy a:
Mini GP1 - Absolute s
tbox, hated it, massively overrated and huge downgrade in driver enjoyment, sold to buy:
Porsche Cayman R - Epicness in every way, needed cheap daily which was an:
Fiesta ST150 - Dullest piss warm hatch ever made: Traded it for my original Clio 182 at the top of the list.
I work for Ford R&D so drive the ST and RS products all the time, the latest Fiesta STs with performance pack is superb, but still prefer my Clio for outright fun.
So even with a Cayman R on the drive, the 182 is still king of the hill for me in terms of proper hot hatch.
Big motor, little car with mega chassis.
You cant have more fun on 4 wheels for less cash
Clio 182 FF with cup packs - Owned for 4.5 years, sold to buy a:
Mini GP1 - Absolute s
tbox, hated it, massively overrated and huge downgrade in driver enjoyment, sold to buy:Porsche Cayman R - Epicness in every way, needed cheap daily which was an:
Fiesta ST150 - Dullest piss warm hatch ever made: Traded it for my original Clio 182 at the top of the list.
I work for Ford R&D so drive the ST and RS products all the time, the latest Fiesta STs with performance pack is superb, but still prefer my Clio for outright fun.
So even with a Cayman R on the drive, the 182 is still king of the hill for me in terms of proper hot hatch.
Big motor, little car with mega chassis.
You cant have more fun on 4 wheels for less cash
Edited by frayz on Tuesday 3rd December 14:31
Petrolsmasher said:
How on earth has the fiesta st180 hardly been mentioned, rated one of the best hot hatches and won hot hatch of the year. Thats my vote anyway. Light nimble, quick enough with a playfull rear end for a fwd.
This is probably going to be an unpopular opinion, but I did at least own one, as well as an EP3 Type R and 172 Cup. I am a millennial, for what it's worth ( as mentioned by the poster above).I think it should be on the shortlist, but I don't think it's anywhere close to the overall winner. The mk7 ST was perhaps the best of its time (circa 2013/14) and it was a breath of fresh air in the hot hatch market, but this is the award for best since 2000. I found the torque steer ridiculous considering the power output, the steering uncommunicative, and the ride too harsh. The engine noise isn't as exciting as older hot hatches (see above) and is piped into the cabin through a tube, and the note is finely tuned with a diaphragm. I don't think it's exciting enough to win this award, but it should be commended for what it brought to the market at the time. A lot of what the mk7 ST had going for it was it's cheap purchase price against rivals, and ST1 entry spec undercutting the Clio RS by £6-7k, plus easy access finance.
olliep82 said:
1. Clio 172 Cup - owed one for nigh on 10 years I’d have it back again in a heartbeat. Bang per buck factor is unmatched.
Only parted with it to get a.....
2. 2014 Fiesta ST - a more grown up version of the Clio but somehow i want a 172 Cup more.
I ran a 2015 Fiesta ST-3 (Mountune MP215) alongside my Clio 172 Cup for approx 6 months. Still got my 172 Cup, don't miss the ST.......Only parted with it to get a.....
2. 2014 Fiesta ST - a more grown up version of the Clio but somehow i want a 172 Cup more.
bcr5784 said:
Can't see this big difference between Clios and Meganes etc. Sure a Megane or Civic is bigger which may be significant in usefullness if you are big and have a big family, but for the rest of us the sheer size of current Meganes and Civics seriously diminishes the fun factor on your typical B road. Cars have expanded a lot in size in the last 20 years - roads haven't.
Agree. The 3 great hot hatches of the 20th century for me were the 205 GTi 1.9, R5 GTT and mk2 Golf GTi 16v. The French pair being more fun and the Golf GTi being the best all-rounder and the availability of 5 doors in the Golf certainly assisted in the practicality. The 205 GTi 1.9 however epitomised the big engine in a small, light car hot hatch formula. The Escort RS Cosworth and Delta Integrale also deserve a mention but they were considered more specialised at the time and in a completely different price bracket, so I think were considered more as homologation specials than hot hatches.Personally, although the 30k+ 2 litre turbo hot hatch class is more buoyant, those cars are relatively big and heavy and I certainly can't afford them, so I find the class down to be more true to the original hot hatch ethos. Smaller, lighter, less power and no AWD but more attainable and fun and more likely to be available with 3 doors. I see a hot hatch as a fun but practical and reasonable to run second car that probably isn't going to take you on holiday (I prefer an estate/SUV for family duties) but you can stick the kid's seats in the back and pick them up for school and still accommodate the weekly shop. If I was buying a new hot hatch, it would be a Fiesta ST for me no question. It's decent value, comfortable and well-appointed enough and makes the new Focus ST look expensive whilst I suspect also being more fun.
In the past, I believe that the Clio 197/200 fulfilled this brief equally as well and if I recall the mk3 Clio was quite a roomy little car and on launch had more passenger/boot space than the mk2 Megane! Likewise, the mk5 Polo (2009ish) was not far off a contemporary Golf in terms of passenger and boot space, so in recent times, I think that the accusation that the smaller hatches are less useable than the next class up is unfounded and a Clio 197/200 is certainly a more practical car than a Megane R26R.R or Trophy R!
Sure, if it was my main family car, I'd go for the Megane/Golf/Focus over the Clio/Polo/Fiesta for the extra refinement/space but for me the best hot hatches are 80% about fun, 15% about practicality and 5% about pure speed.
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