RE: BMW Z4 M Coupe | Spotted

[cerb4.5lee]

J4CKO said:

cerb4.5lee said:

GroundEffect said:

I had a Z4C and a Z4M Roadster for 4 years.

The Z4C was crap. Steering, ride, RFTs just meant it wasn't fun to drive. And the hard roof was very claustrophobic.

The Z4M was much better but still, you could not push the boundaries of the handling. It was snappy and aloof. Despite being very fast.

By comparison, my E92 M3 was an over-sized and over-powered MX5. Could drive it sideways everywhere if you wanted.

Amazing that they came out at the same time.

I'm another one who couldn't believe how much better the E92 M3 was(chassis/ride/handling wise) in comparison to the Z4M. I found the M3 really easy to slide and I always knew where I stood with it. I just couldn't trust the Z4M and I found it very unpredictable in comparison.

I always got the idea you were never all that keen on your M3 ?

I certainly wasn't in terms of it as a daily driver for me and it didn't suit my commute at all(it was thirsty which was to be expected, but the performance was wasted because I couldn't enjoy it/main roads too busy). However I've always been very complimentary about it ride/suspension/chassis wise, and it has been the best car I've had regarding that.

I'd be tempted into a E9x M3 now though as an occasional car, that way you can search the quiet roads out and enjoy what it is best at(very high revs).

[rotaryjam]

Skc100 said:

Ha ha, maybe, but it doesn’t feel like it, I still have it and it’s a blast to drive??

I found the dyno I was thinking of:



Source: https://www.zpost.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5955...

Turns out it was from 4.5k that the difference starts and then from 6750 that the Z4C runs out and the Z4M carries on, same idea but I imagine it would be easier than access that difference in daily driving than I suggested originally!

[GroundEffect]

rotaryjam said:

Skc100 said:

Ha ha, maybe, but it doesn’t feel like it, I still have it and it’s a blast to drive??

I found the dyno I was thinking of:



Source: https://www.zpost.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5955...

Turns out it was from 4.5k that the difference starts and then from 6750 that the Z4C runs out and the Z4M carries on, same idea but I imagine it would be easier than access that difference in daily driving than I suggested originally!

I've owned both. Yes, the 3.0 is a lovely engine that pulls very well through lower and mid range. It's better than the S54 in that regard. But when you want to give it some there's no comparison.

[NathanChadwick]

I love the Z4M. I love the way it looks. I love the way the engine dominates the car. I love the fact it's a bit scary. I love the fact the interior is relatively simple.

I also love the steering – it's essentially the same rack as the M3 CS and CSL, and I love the sharpness of it.

The £25k question I have is this or a Maserati GranSport. Two very different cars that would see similar use (ie. nowhere near a track). Hmm.

[Taylor James]

They seem a bit flawed and therefore not good enough to justify the price. I like M cars and have had a few but this one doesn't interest me.

[otolith]

I think the best thing about it is that you get that fantastic engine without having to put it with it being in a family saloon.

[mmm-five]

Taylor James said:

They seem a bit flawed and therefore not good enough to justify the price. I like M cars and have had a few but this one doesn't interest me.

...that's part of the reason I chose the Z4MC over the e46 M3, and why I chose the e34 M5 over the e36 M3.

I don't want to follow the crowd, and be seen as taking the well-trodden path.

Imagine what my experience was like coming from an e34 M5 (with bouncy mcbouncy electronic suspension) to a Z4MC with no suspension

Neither ever stopped me having lots of fun in all conditions...on the commute, weekend hoons, drift days, trackdays, or Nurburgring weekends - they're just different beasts and it's great to be driving something different.

However, being different did make finding aftermarket upgrades more difficult/expensive

Edited by mmm-five on Wednesday 17th March 13:10

[Niffty951]

mmm-five said:

Neither ever stopped me having lots of fun in all conditions...on the commute, weekend hoons, drift days, trackdays, or Nurburgring weekends - they're just different beasts and it's great to be driving something different.

Sir, I salute you. I could never get a handle on my Z4MC. I figured most drivers never really used them hard enough to learn the dark side. Your images prove I just never got the knack!

My car was factory standard (only 1yr old when I bought it) and the scariest handling car I've ever owned. I could drift a perfect circle one moment, believing I had the measure of it and then it would bite me out of nowhere and throw me off the road. I came off extremely lucky 3 times in that car and then sold it to buy a TVR Cerbera, which was in my mind the total opposite. It snarled and bit at you as you tried to tame it and then onve you knew it's limits, was good as gold and never surprised me despite being driven far harder than sanity should have permitted me to try in the Z4M

[cerb4.5lee]

Niffty951 said:

mmm-five said:

Neither ever stopped me having lots of fun in all conditions...on the commute, weekend hoons, drift days, trackdays, or Nurburgring weekends - they're just different beasts and it's great to be driving something different.

Sir, I salute you. I could never get a handle on my Z4MC. I figured most drivers never really used them hard enough to learn the dark side. Your images prove I just never got the knack!

My car was factory standard (only 1yr old when I bought it) and the scariest handling car I've ever owned. I could drift a perfect circle one moment, believing I had the measure of it and then it would bite me out of nowhere and throw me off the road. I came off extremely lucky 3 times in that car and then sold it to buy a TVR Cerbera, which was in my mind the total opposite. It snarled and bit at you as you tried to tame it and then onve you knew it's limits, was good as gold and never surprised me despite being driven far harder than sanity should have permitted me to try in the Z4M

I experienced exactly the same as you regarding the Cerbera and the Z4M. The Cerbera communicated to me well I thought and I could mostly trust and predict what would happen with it. I always felt like a passenger in the Z4M though and I found it really difficult to read/trust. I never had any confidence in the Z4M, whereas the Cerbera seemed to fit the way I drive like a glove and I was happy to push it in comparison.

I think that I just didn't have the depth of skills for the Z4M. Tiff Needell seems to absolutely love the Z4M from what I've read/seen, so if you have the skills(like Tiff/mmm-five) then I presume that you can really get the best from it for sure.

[mmm-five]

I still don't like the throttle application in the Z4MC - have got used to it, but don't like it. I still prefer a cable throttle where I know I will get the amount I've asked for, rather than a computer deciding how much I should have based on some dodgy 'comfort' or 'sport' setting.

You really need to get used to driving it with the traction/stability aids off though - as they cut in far too early and will cause handling issues when pushing on. You've also got to get used to (or rather anticipate) the very rapid change from slight understeer to heavy oversteer - as you'll have no notice due to being sat on the rear wheels - and is where the M3/M5 gives you much more ability to hold drifts.

I almost ended up in a barrier at the Ring when I forgot to turn it off...as I was expecting some mild oversteer as I powered on and opened up the steering, only to find my power cut and the brakes applied to the 'wrong' wheels which started the car understeering towards the armco.

Only have it on in the rain now.

[cerb4.5lee]

mmm-five said:

I still don't like the throttle application in the Z4MC - have got used to it, but don't like it. I still prefer a cable throttle where I know I will get the amount I've asked for, rather than a computer deciding how much I should have based on some dodgy 'comfort' or 'sport' setting.

You really need to get used to driving it with the traction/stability aids off though - as they cut in far too early and will cause handling issues when pushing on. You've also got to get used to (or rather anticipate) the very rapid change from slight understeer to heavy oversteer - as you'll have no notice due to being sat on the rear wheels - and is where the M3/M5 gives you much more ability to hold drifts.

I almost ended up in a barrier at the Ring when I forgot to turn it off...as I was expecting some mild oversteer as I powered on and opened up the steering, only to find my power cut and the brakes applied to the 'wrong' wheels which started the car understeering towards the armco.

Only have it on in the rain now.

Thanks for this.

Like you I found the traction/stability aids to be a bit too intrusive/unpredictable(especially after the TVR without any). So I generally switched them off in the dry and left them on in the rain too.

Mine(Z4M Roadster) did unnerve me a couple of times over bumps etc(because of the ride/suspension) so I lost confidence in it pretty early on. Plus with me not gelling with the gearbox(I really disliked 1st to 2nd) I moved it on pretty quickly(only had it 5 months). So I never really got to fully know it/understand it to be fair.

I definitely missed having a car like that though(2 seat Roadster), and that prompted me to go and get my 370Z Roadster a few years down the line. I've had the 370Z for 2 years next month and I'm still really enjoying it. The first thing I do when I get in that is also switch the traction/stability aids off!(again they are a bit too quick to cut in for my liking).

[carl_w]

cerb4.5lee said:

I experienced exactly the same as you regarding the Cerbera and the Z4M. The Cerbera communicated to me well I thought and I could mostly trust and predict what would happen with it. I always felt like a passenger in the Z4M though and I found it really difficult to read/trust. I never had any confidence in the Z4M, whereas the Cerbera seemed to fit the way I drive like a glove and I was happy to push it in comparison.

I found the opposite, but you have to remember that pretty much every Cerbera is unique. I have a degree of confidence in the Z4MC that I didn't have with the Cerb, and I am certainly no driving god.

[cerb4.5lee]

carl_w said:

I found the opposite, but you have to remember that pretty much every Cerbera is unique. I have a degree of confidence in the Z4MC that I didn't have with the Cerb, and I am certainly no driving god.

As mmm-five alludes to...I prefer the longer wheelbase of the Cerbera and the E92 M3. I find them easier to handle, and I think being sat over the rear wheels in the Z4M threw me off a bit in comparison. Plus the unforgiving suspension used to unnerve me in the Z4M as well.

There is one thing with the Z4M though from a positive point of view...is that you will always have a thrilling drive/ride in one for sure. You have to respect it for that I reckon.

[NathanChadwick]

cerb4.5lee said:

carl_w said:

I found the opposite, but you have to remember that pretty much every Cerbera is unique. I have a degree of confidence in the Z4MC that I didn't have with the Cerb, and I am certainly no driving god.

As mmm-five alludes to...I prefer the longer wheelbase of the Cerbera and the E92 M3. I find them easier to handle, and I think being sat over the rear wheels in the Z4M threw me off a bit in comparison. Plus the unforgiving suspension used to unnerve me in the Z4M as well.

There is one thing with the Z4M though from a positive point of view...is that you will always have a thrilling drive/ride in one for sure. You have to respect it for that I reckon.

I’m not sure I could live with a Z4M as a daily car. Sometimes you just want to park your brain and get home; similar to my 147 GTA in a way. If I had to use that everyday it would soon wind me up, but as a weekend thrash it’s great fun. Not as dynamically pure as an RS Clio/Megane, but an entertaining wrestle. The Z4M is similar in that regard, compared to a Cayman S for example.

[Mr Tidy]

NathanChadwick said:

I’m not sure I could live with a Z4M as a daily car. Sometimes you just want to park your brain and get home; similar to my 147 GTA in a way. If I had to use that everyday it would soon wind me up, but as a weekend thrash it’s great fun. Not as dynamically pure as an RS Clio/Megane, but an entertaining wrestle. The Z4M is similar in that regard, compared to a Cayman S for example.

That makes perfect sense to me.

I wouldn't want to use my Z4MC as a daily (I have a 3 Series for getting trolley rash in Tescos) but on the right road in the right circumstances it's just so exciting!

[SidewaysSi]

BMW have never made a decent sports car, Z4M included. Always seemed a bit half arsed to me.

[gizlaroc]

I had the 3.0si, and the stock geo settings are not good at all.

Put a set of PS4s on it, and then get someone who knows about geo set ups to spend some time with it, somewhere between the standard sport settings on a Hunter and the M3 CSL settings and it suddenly clicks into place.

You then have a car that goes exactly where you point it and grips like st.

The other issue is it is slightly under damped and over sprung, whether the M or the M-sport. Slightly firmer dampers like the B8's and a more progressive spring like the Eibach pro kit spring, gets rid of that strange bouncy back end at lower speeds and gives you far more control.

I think it is a shame how these left BMW as they can be so, so, so much better with the right tyres, damping and geo.


Already a classic imho, such pretty lines.

[jontysafe]

mmm-five said:

Taylor James said:

They seem a bit flawed and therefore not good enough to justify the price. I like M cars and have had a few but this one doesn't interest me.

...that's part of the reason I chose the Z4MC over the e46 M3, and why I chose the e34 M5 over the e36 M3.

I don't want to follow the crowd, and be seen as taking the well-trodden path.

Imagine what my experience was like coming from an e34 M5 (with bouncy mcbouncy electronic suspension) to a Z4MC with no suspension

Neither ever stopped me having lots of fun in all conditions...on the commute, weekend hoons, drift days, trackdays, or Nurburgring weekends - they're just different beasts and it's great to be driving something different.

However, being different did make finding aftermarket upgrades more difficult/expensive

Edited by mmm-five on Wednesday 17th March 13:10

I must admit to never really getting the measure of my Z4MC. I think this was down to it being only my 2nd RWD car, first was 750i, so v different. I think also as mmm-five has said, it was the pivot point of the car and where you were sat in relation to that. It massively highlighted any sideways movement to where you`d come out of the throttle early and it would snap back into grip. I never took it anywhere to safely explore that transition between outright grip and drift.
I sometimes wish I hadn`t sold it but then I remember the bunny hopping throttle, the 1st gear pull away and change into 2nd and the simply too hard ride.