A sportscar shouldn’t have...

[Miserablegit]

I'd say essence of a sports car is fun- I'd put an slk55 into that category- the weight of the trinkets is partially offset by a lovely v8.

If i had more time I'd work on an algorithm- pop up headlamps offset headlamp washers and contrast stitching/head rest embroidery etc.

[RobM77]

Miserablegit said:

I'd say essence of a sports car is fun- I'd put an slk55 into that category- the weight of the trinkets is partially offset by a lovely v8.

If i had more time I'd work on an algorithm- pop up headlamps offset headlamp washers and contrast stitching/head rest embroidery etc.

So would I. I would just define the MX5 as more of a sports car. My comment was mainly a dig at this ridiculous tendency on PH to laugh at the 118d, 118i etc, but praise the 130i, 135i etc. I've owned a variety of BMWs and driven virtually the whole 1 and 3 series range, and the truth is that the smaller engine models handle better than the larger engined models - they even feel more classically 'rear drive'. It's a simple matter of weight and weight distribution. The lower a car's weight and the better the weight distribution, the more sporty it'll feel like in terms of handling.

[PSB1]

Eyelashes.

[thiscocks]

Tyre Smoke said:

thiscocks said:

A Lancia Stratos is a sports car.

And according to you, because they are FWD, the an Elan M100, Lancia Fulvia HF and Mitsubishi FTO arn't sports cars then?

Why should it be a convertible? So a Renault Alpine A110 isn't a sports car? lol

A Stratos isn't a sports car. It's a rally car.

And you are quite correct none of the rest are sports cars.

It should be a convertible because any hard top is a roadster. There's a reason why the MGB is a sports car and the MGB GT isn't.

Well I'm pretty sure Mitsubishi called the FTO a sports car themselves when they made it. Perhaps sports coupe. If so, a sports coupe is surely a sports car?

Surely the roadgoing version of the Stratos is termed as a sports car? Perhaps the term sports car for me is much broader than yours then. To quote wikipedia (known to be 100% factual ) : "A sports car is designed to emphasise handling, performance or thrill of driving"

[cerb4.5lee]

RobM77 said:

So would I. I would just define the MX5 as more of a sports car. My comment was mainly a dig at this ridiculous tendency on PH to laugh at the 118d, 118i etc, but praise the 130i, 135i etc. I've owned a variety of BMWs and driven virtually the whole 1 and 3 series range, and the truth is that the smaller engine models handle better than the larger engined models - they even feel more classically 'rear drive'. It's a simple matter of weight and weight distribution. The lower a car's weight and the better the weight distribution, the more sporty it'll feel like in terms of handling.

I agree with you regards the weight bit, but if you prioritise the engine in a car like I do then I'd always prefer the 130i/135i over the 118i/118d.

For example I really liked my 520d as a car but the engine ruined the whole package for me.

[MikeDB1]

thiscocks said:

Surely the roadgoing version of the Stratos is termed as a sports car? Perhaps the term sports car for me is much broader than yours then. To quote wikipedia (known to be 100% factual ) : "A sports car is designed to emphasise handling, performance or thrill of driving"

No the Stratos is unique and needs its own category. It is simply the most dangerous mid engined roller-skate ever made .... and once driven makes every other car seem a waste of road space !

The only thing that comes close is a Superbike !

[anonymous-user]

yonex said:

ericmcn said:

If I was racing a 116d they would know.....

like this ST3 driver who seemed game

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YsSJuvYoKEY

dont know why you continualy digging up stty 116ds into conversations? its not making you look any way clever in case you think it is and not everyone is a moron and drives 90mph towards roundabouts in built up cities in leased out BMWs

You got dropped by a 118d, it’s funny. The topic is ‘sports cars’.

You’ve never owned one. HTH

I still can't decide if ericmn is a brilliant troll or mentally ill. A decade old Subaru Legacy Arse Peck is many things (a cheap shed, a good tip run car, great to leave in the station car park because who cares if it gets damaged, just about worth £1k, not as st as it looks, anonymous) but a sports car it is not.

[Eeyore9]

lard arse driver

[Pericoloso]

A set of 4 Linglongs.....

"Watch this"......aaaaand crash !

[Mr Tidy]

A Subaru badge.

Where has eric gone BTW? It's not quite the same on here without him!

[RobM77]

cerb4.5lee said:

RobM77 said:

So would I. I would just define the MX5 as more of a sports car. My comment was mainly a dig at this ridiculous tendency on PH to laugh at the 118d, 118i etc, but praise the 130i, 135i etc. I've owned a variety of BMWs and driven virtually the whole 1 and 3 series range, and the truth is that the smaller engine models handle better than the larger engined models - they even feel more classically 'rear drive'. It's a simple matter of weight and weight distribution. The lower a car's weight and the better the weight distribution, the more sporty it'll feel like in terms of handling.

I agree with you regards the weight bit, but if you prioritise the engine in a car like I do then I'd always prefer the 130i/135i over the 118i/118d.

For example I really liked my 520d as a car but the engine ruined the whole package for me.

For sure, yes, everyone has their priorities. However, the classic PH tendency to belittle smaller engined BMs assumes everyone only thinks about the engine, which is not the case and is especially true in a discussion about what makes a sports car. An 1.6 MX5 with barely 100bhp is most definitely a sports car.

[Debaser]

ericmcn said:

If I was racing a 116d they would know.....

like this ST3 driver who seemed game

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YsSJuvYoKEY

dont know why you continualy digging up stty 116ds into conversations? its not making you look any way clever in case you think it is and not everyone is a moron and drives 90mph towards roundabouts in built up cities in leased out BMWs

I just watched that video, what was I supposed to see?

Was that you holding up the Fiesta?

[donkmeister]

Eeyore9 said:

lard arse driver

Any real sports car driver knows the need to build-in extra warmth, for driving with the roof down in *all* weathers...
Not like fly-by-night wannabe sports car drivers who need "heaters"... And "coats"...

[cerb4.5lee]

RobM77 said:

cerb4.5lee said:

RobM77 said:

So would I. I would just define the MX5 as more of a sports car. My comment was mainly a dig at this ridiculous tendency on PH to laugh at the 118d, 118i etc, but praise the 130i, 135i etc. I've owned a variety of BMWs and driven virtually the whole 1 and 3 series range, and the truth is that the smaller engine models handle better than the larger engined models - they even feel more classically 'rear drive'. It's a simple matter of weight and weight distribution. The lower a car's weight and the better the weight distribution, the more sporty it'll feel like in terms of handling.

I agree with you regards the weight bit, but if you prioritise the engine in a car like I do then I'd always prefer the 130i/135i over the 118i/118d.

For example I really liked my 520d as a car but the engine ruined the whole package for me.

For sure, yes, everyone has their priorities. However, the classic PH tendency to belittle smaller engined BMs assumes everyone only thinks about the engine, which is not the case and is especially true in a discussion about what makes a sports car. An 1.6 MX5 with barely 100bhp is most definitely a sports car.

When I drove a 1.8 Caterham with only 120bhp I wasn't really expecting much performance wise, but due to its lightweight it was more than enough.

I also really like the ethos behind the MX5 too, lower weight equals much more engagement regards the actual driving experience for sure.

[MKnight702]

Rotor said:

On reflection maybe the term Sports car went out with 1950s MGs and Leather flying jackets

Well I wear my flying jacket whilst driving my Caterham in the winter, so yep, sports cars are still made.

[RobM77]

cerb4.5lee said:

RobM77 said:

cerb4.5lee said:

RobM77 said:

So would I. I would just define the MX5 as more of a sports car. My comment was mainly a dig at this ridiculous tendency on PH to laugh at the 118d, 118i etc, but praise the 130i, 135i etc. I've owned a variety of BMWs and driven virtually the whole 1 and 3 series range, and the truth is that the smaller engine models handle better than the larger engined models - they even feel more classically 'rear drive'. It's a simple matter of weight and weight distribution. The lower a car's weight and the better the weight distribution, the more sporty it'll feel like in terms of handling.

I agree with you regards the weight bit, but if you prioritise the engine in a car like I do then I'd always prefer the 130i/135i over the 118i/118d.

For example I really liked my 520d as a car but the engine ruined the whole package for me.

For sure, yes, everyone has their priorities. However, the classic PH tendency to belittle smaller engined BMs assumes everyone only thinks about the engine, which is not the case and is especially true in a discussion about what makes a sports car. An 1.6 MX5 with barely 100bhp is most definitely a sports car.

When I drove a 1.8 Caterham with only 120bhp I wasn't really expecting much performance wise, but due to its lightweight it was more than enough.

I also really like the ethos behind the MX5 too, lower weight equals much more engagement regards the actual driving experience for sure.

And that, in my opinion, is the essence of a sports car: a vehicle that's lighter and keener than a normal car and more responsive as a result. They're the shortboards or track spikes of the car world.

As I explained in my first post though, rigid categories don't help anyone. The reality is a spectrum.

[Coolbanana]

An ICE!

Yep, I used to enjoy the sound and soul of a powerful ICE, a thunderous V8, a silky 6 cylinder with a dirty growl...but the purity of the EV has swayed me. I prefer it - no big noise polluting my fun, just the sensation of speed.

I tried to go back to manual, hated it, just felt like work for no reason. So for me, a pure sports car would have to be an EV now and I look forward to an Elise-type version in the future from Lotus - that, to me, will be the evolution of the sportscar and finding a new level of its essence.

[Tickle]

Coolbanana said:

An ICE!

Yep, I used to enjoy the sound and soul of a powerful ICE, a thunderous V8, a silky 6 cylinder with a dirty growl...but the purity of the EV has swayed me. I prefer it - no big noise polluting my fun, just the sensation of speed.

I tried to go back to manual, hated it, just felt like work for no reason. So for me, a pure sports car would have to be an EV now and I look forward to an Elise-type version in the future from Lotus - that, to me, will be the evolution of the sportscar and finding a new level of its essence.

It would be very interesting if battery tech was developed to be small enough and light enough for a fun car. A sub 800kg Caterham or Elise would certainly be appealing if the days of ICE are coming to an end (for new cars).

If there's a big enough market for these types of car is another thing.

[cerb4.5lee]

Coolbanana said:

An ICE!

Yep, I used to enjoy the sound and soul of a powerful ICE, a thunderous V8, a silky 6 cylinder with a dirty growl...but the purity of the EV has swayed me. I prefer it - no big noise polluting my fun, just the sensation of speed.

I tried to go back to manual, hated it, just felt like work for no reason. So for me, a pure sports car would have to be an EV now and I look forward to an Elise-type version in the future from Lotus - that, to me, will be the evolution of the sportscar and finding a new level of its essence.

You have ruined my morning now that I've read that!

So much wrong in only two paragraphs for me. The noise and swapping cogs myself are two of the most enjoyable things about driving imo.

[kiseca]

cerb4.5lee said:

Coolbanana said:

An ICE!

Yep, I used to enjoy the sound and soul of a powerful ICE, a thunderous V8, a silky 6 cylinder with a dirty growl...but the purity of the EV has swayed me. I prefer it - no big noise polluting my fun, just the sensation of speed.

I tried to go back to manual, hated it, just felt like work for no reason. So for me, a pure sports car would have to be an EV now and I look forward to an Elise-type version in the future from Lotus - that, to me, will be the evolution of the sportscar and finding a new level of its essence.

You have ruined my morning now that I've read that!

So much wrong in only two paragraphs for me. The noise and swapping cogs myself are two of the most enjoyable things about driving imo.

I'm actually with Coolbanana. An electric motor feels so much better suited to a car because it exposes all the compromises that have to be made to allow an ICE to work at all, including the need for a clutch and a gearbox.

To me, it makes ICE feel obsolete, and while there can be fun in listening to an engine (not many, but some) and there can be satisfaction from swapping cogs (again, some gearboxes are lovely to use, others aren't), I'm sure there is also a lot of satisfaction to be had from smoothly operating a steam engine.

If you like instant and eager accelerator response, good steering feedback, excellent handling, EV has a lot more potential than ICE. There's lots more scope to put the weight where you want it, much more room to put good suspension in when it isn't fighting for room with a bulky V8 or V12 and gearbox. And EVs give a new, much more literal, and much more instant, quality to that oft used term "electric throttle response".

Sound is missing but with EV you can make it sound like a Tie Fighter if you want. So many ICE cars now are pumping fake sound into the cabin anyway...

Yes, I enjoy using a nice gearbox and listening to a tuneful petrol engine, but those aren't the only things I enjoy about driving, they aren't even the primary things I enjoy about driving, and so for me at least the pros outweigh the cons with EV.

We all get different pleasures from driving and I accept that for others, the balance tips the other way, but that's just my personal thing. I get it, and I don't see inevitable gloom in an electric future, or more to the point, I think whatever will make driving less fun in the future, automated safety systems, stricter policing possibly directly by the car's electronics, more and more crowding, these will all happen regardless of how the car is powered.