A sportscar shouldn’t have...

A sportscar shouldn’t have...

Author
Discussion

Miserablegit

Original Poster:

4,021 posts

110 months

Thursday 28th November 2019
quotequote all
Schmed said:
A french badge on it....

laugh
Wondered how long it would take wink
Presumably we should add 4000 contrasting stitching combinations and embroidered head restraints?

anonymous-user

55 months

Thursday 28th November 2019
quotequote all
MikeyC said:
An expensive hi-fi system ?
You bought the car because it's a 'sports' car, to drive and experience it's handling/performance and, most importantly the sound of the engine
Just seems a waste of money plus extra weight.

Sure have a standard one, but more than that, I've never really seen the point ....
JMHO
Eugh. I get comments on the TVR section when I mention my system (when people ask for help). Underseat sub, amps, very good speakers.

I drive it every day (Griff 500) spring to autumn as my main car and whilst the V8 sounds lovely, that novelty wears off fast sitting in traffic or doing long slogs. With the roof off you need some decent kit to feel and hear the music.

TyrannosauRoss Lex

35,100 posts

213 months

Thursday 28th November 2019
quotequote all
Miserablegit said:
kambites said:
Yeah I've never understood the aversion to drive aids which can be switched off and add no weight to the car or inherent interference to the controls.
OP here - I think these driver aids are bad because they add weight because they need cameras and other sensors - not just a software option. I take the view that anyone who needs lane departure warning shouldn’t be driving.
Does traction control or ABS require a camera? Do the sensors add much weight for ABS? If so, is that weight even remotely noticeable, especially when you consider the benefits it can give.

Miserablegit

Original Poster:

4,021 posts

110 months

Thursday 28th November 2019
quotequote all
TyrannosauRoss Lex said:
Does traction control or ABS require a camera? Do the sensors add much weight for ABS? If so, is that weight even remotely noticeable, especially when you consider the benefits it can give.
Suggest you read the original quote that referred to lane departure and auto wipers not ABS

talksthetorque

10,815 posts

136 months

Thursday 28th November 2019
quotequote all
TyrannosauRoss Lex said:
Does traction control or ABS require a camera? Do the sensors add much weight for ABS? If so, is that weight even remotely noticeable, especially when you consider the benefits it can give.
Abs gubbins is also unsprung weight. Boooooo.


I’m going to throw in pop up headlights - add weight.

SidewaysSi

10,742 posts

235 months

Thursday 28th November 2019
quotequote all
The new non GT 911s are not sports cars. They are GT cars...

J4CKO

41,628 posts

201 months

Thursday 28th November 2019
quotequote all
A overly rigid and prescriptive definition.

Tyre Smoke

23,018 posts

262 months

Thursday 28th November 2019
quotequote all
A sports car should really be a convertible, whether hard or soft it doesn't matter, should only have two seats and two doors. Cup holders are fine, as is traction control and Abs. It should have a manual gearbox, but an auto that can be used or overridden manually. It should be able to wear a luggage rack on it's boot lid, but by no means must. It cannot be FWD. Anything with a fixed roof and/or back seats is not a sports car.

An MGB is a sports car
An MX5 is a sports car
An MR2 Roadster is a sports car
An X/19 is a sports car
An SLK is a sports car

Any Spider/Spyder is a sports car (unless it's FWD)

A TVR Chimeara/Griffith is not a sports car but a Grand Tourer.
A DeTomaso Pantera is not a sports car
A Lancia Stratos is not a sports car
A blower Bentley is not a sports car


Wooda80

1,743 posts

76 months

Thursday 28th November 2019
quotequote all
Would I be right in the assertion that people buy a sports car for the enjoyment of driving it?

So you can start with something like, say, an Elise and revel in its responses and agility on deserted country roads. And you can use it for more ordinary purposes too, when rather than enjoying it you have to be seen to be earnestly appreciating it. A bit like being at a Beirut gig.

Then someone comes up with the idea of making something with a broader range of appeal. Maybe not pretending so much to be a race-car-that-you-never-take-on-a-race-track-in-case-someone-scratches-it, but something that's still fun to drive but your passenger enjoys the ride too, that you can take to the shops because it has somewhere for shopping, that you can spec with heated seats and an awesome sound system to make your winter commute as enjoyable as that B-road blast.

And then you look at the breadth of appeal and commercial success of Porsche and compare it with that of Lotus, for example.

kambites

67,587 posts

222 months

Thursday 28th November 2019
quotequote all
Miserablegit said:
kambites said:
Yeah I've never understood the aversion to drive aids which can be switched off and add no weight to the car or inherent interference to the controls.
OP here - I think these driver aids are bad because they add weight because they need cameras and other sensors - not just a software option. I take the view that anyone who needs lane departure warning shouldn’t be driving.
No more than a handful of grams in most cases. Things like leather (as opposed to cloth) interiors almost certainly add more weight so shall we discount leather seats from sports cars too? Certainly a set of carpets will weight more than a rain sensor, are they allowed?

I had to replace the wheel speed sensor on my car years ago (it only has one, used for the speedometer), it can't have weighed more than 20 grams. I'm all for saving weight, but things like that are pretty insignificant.

Edited by kambites on Thursday 28th November 19:11

SidewaysSi

10,742 posts

235 months

Thursday 28th November 2019
quotequote all
Wooda80 said:
Would I be right in the assertion that people buy a sports car for the enjoyment of driving it?

So you can start with something like, say, an Elise and revel in its responses and agility on deserted country roads. And you can use it for more ordinary purposes too, when rather than enjoying it you have to be seen to be earnestly appreciating it. A bit like being at a Beirut gig.

Then someone comes up with the idea of making something with a broader range of appeal. Maybe not pretending so much to be a race-car-that-you-never-take-on-a-race-track-in-case-someone-scratches-it, but something that's still fun to drive but your passenger enjoys the ride too, that you can take to the shops because it has somewhere for shopping, that you can spec with heated seats and an awesome sound system to make your winter commute as enjoyable as that B-road blast.

And then you look at the breadth of appeal and commercial success of Porsche and compare it with that of Lotus, for example.
The key word being "commercial". Let's not get into a Porsche vs Lotus chat though as you can cut and paste from lots of threads.

Wooda80

1,743 posts

76 months

Thursday 28th November 2019
quotequote all
The commercial success follows on from the breadth of appeal.

Is an Elise a better sports car than a Boxster or vice versa? That's entirely your own individual preference.

Are they both sports cars? Of course they are.

I don't understand your reference to cutting and pasting other threads. I only post my own thoughts and opinions. Do you mean to say that some people don't?

ericmcn

1,999 posts

98 months

Thursday 28th November 2019
quotequote all
Miserablegit said:
OP here - I think these driver aids are bad because they add weight because they need cameras and other sensors - not just a software option. I take the view that anyone who needs lane departure warning shouldn’t be driving.
If you're too reliant on driver aids your not a competent enough driver, parallel parking, lane departure, auto everything is mostly superficial stuff and a true sports car is all about driver engagement with the car itself, not with ancillary equipment that takes away from the whole experience.

F1 cars back before regulations killed the sport were all about the skills in controlling a wild beast that was a v12, a thousand of a second out of timing doing a bend could have been fatal, now it's as exciting as boiling an egg. I last was watching when Eddie Irvine was involved and even then it was getting a bit tame..

Turbojuice

601 posts

90 months

Thursday 28th November 2019
quotequote all
Stop/start. Surprised no one has said this yet.

Dynion Araf Uchaf

4,461 posts

224 months

Thursday 28th November 2019
quotequote all
Cotty said:
roof rack or roof box
tow bar or mudflaps

Jimmy Recard

17,540 posts

180 months

Thursday 28th November 2019
quotequote all
kambites said:
I don't think many people would class an F1 car as a "sport car".

Racing cars and sports cars have fundamentally different remits - for me at least, a sports car's primary purpose is to be fun whereas a racing cars primary purpose is to be fast (within whatever rules it competes under).
This is how I see the distinction too

anonymous-user

55 months

Thursday 28th November 2019
quotequote all
A roof

Burgerbob

485 posts

78 months

Thursday 28th November 2019
quotequote all
I think this hinges on how you define a sports car.

I'd say a sports car is a car designed to emphasise the thrill of driving. But that doesn't stop a sports car having a few creator comforts.

Otherwise the only sports cars available would be stripped out track ready caterhams which would be a pain to drive anywhere but round Cadwell Park.


Pericoloso

44,044 posts

164 months

Thursday 28th November 2019
quotequote all
Front wheel drive cars are being dismissed too easily.

Lotus Elan M100

FIAT Barchetta

I might be biased towards one of those......tongue out

There must be others.

blueg33

35,981 posts

225 months

Thursday 28th November 2019
quotequote all
Dynion Araf Uchaf said:
Cotty said:
roof rack or roof box
tow bar or mudflaps
Really? Lotus Evora has front mud flaps.