Diagnostics fee!!
Discussion
Diagnostics ≠ Blindly throwing any parts the scanner tells you have logged faults.
Even on something simple like an ABS sensor a good tech is going to want to at least visually inspect both ends of the sensor before ordering one. This is all time that needs to be paid for.
Some mechanics may take short cuts, but then they have to take that responsibility in the occasions that things go wrong, so that's on them.
Even on something simple like an ABS sensor a good tech is going to want to at least visually inspect both ends of the sensor before ordering one. This is all time that needs to be paid for.
Some mechanics may take short cuts, but then they have to take that responsibility in the occasions that things go wrong, so that's on them.
It's the way they justify their bill... They call it being transparent, but the reality is if they split everything down suddenly a £350 bill seems reasonable. You'll see it in service parts too, where they split out disposal costs, rubber gloves and towels costs etc.
Whereas if they grouped it all... suddenly they'd be big amounts and there'd be complaints.
As others have said, diagnostics takes time, and as the hourly rate for a garage is sky high, 15-30 minutes could easily account for the charge you're seeing.
Whereas if they grouped it all... suddenly they'd be big amounts and there'd be complaints.
As others have said, diagnostics takes time, and as the hourly rate for a garage is sky high, 15-30 minutes could easily account for the charge you're seeing.
I've never had an invoice with a charge for diagnostics. I expect they just bundle it in with the costs of the labour involved. Ultimately, I don't care. As long as their overall prices are competitive and their work is good then I'm happy. The current garage I'm using have done a great job of some quite complex jobs and have consistently surprised me with bills that were 1/2 what I thought they'd be.
WorldBoss said:
Diagnostics ? Blindly throwing any parts the scanner tells you have logged faults.
Irony of this statement is - I bought an old Snap On scanner off eBay for my fleet and one of the first things it says is "Do not replace components on the strength of a fault code" Or words to that effect
WorldBoss said:
Diagnostics ? Blindly throwing any parts the scanner tells you have logged faults.
Even on something simple like an ABS sensor a good tech is going to want to at least visually inspect both ends of the sensor before ordering one....
Oh I mean yes, but I would expect that to be 'labour' but maybe the 'diagnostics' fee includes the labour for checking both ends.Even on something simple like an ABS sensor a good tech is going to want to at least visually inspect both ends of the sensor before ordering one....
If that where the case, and the machine cost was split into that that might make more sense. But as I understood it the £45 for for plugging in the machine, not inspecting the sensor etc.
Daniel
My local Saab indie doesn’t charge me if it’s in for a service. If I ask him to do a scan then yes he charges me about £30 but has wavered it when it’s something trivial. If it’s in for a service he does a scan anyway as it can have things hidden. He may add it the service cost (£90 as I supply oil) but never adds it separate.
BMW/MINI list a compulsory "Standard Scope" diagnostic fee (£32 for the last one) as a separate line item on the bill after any service, even if it's just an oil change or new brake pads. It's always felt a bit rich to me, especially given how eye wateringly expensive they are for the rest of the job.
For a diagnostic service (i.e. to find a fault), out of warranty, or at an indie, I would of course expect to pay for a diagnostic service, but to have it as a compulsory, chargeable line item whenever they lift the bonnet to perform even scheduled maintenance grates a little bit.
For a diagnostic service (i.e. to find a fault), out of warranty, or at an indie, I would of course expect to pay for a diagnostic service, but to have it as a compulsory, chargeable line item whenever they lift the bonnet to perform even scheduled maintenance grates a little bit.
Flumpo said:
I understand the various reasons for the charge. To an extent that’s all fair. But I’m willing to bet the main dealer £60+ contains a large mark up beyond paying for the machine and updates.
But I dare say all of us company directors aren’t driving tvrs due to fair mark ups?
That mark up is profit, I dont think any of us would expect a company to not want to make a profit.But I dare say all of us company directors aren’t driving tvrs due to fair mark ups?
Aiminghigh123 said:
My local Saab indie doesn’t charge me if it’s in for a service. If I ask him to do a scan then yes he charges me about £30 but has wavered it when it’s something trivial. If it’s in for a service he does a scan anyway as it can have things hidden. He may add it the service cost (£90 as I supply oil) but never adds it separate.
Yeah, I mean that sounds fair enough.For balance, I have paid it, and I can afford it, and the service from this garage (new and recently moved) otherwise seems reasonable. But it is also become seriously steep when compared to the local BMW specialist and breakers I used to use.
This ABS sensor has been £160 round trip, at my previous garage I would expect (based on other similar work over the five years I used them) to be about half that. And they used to to code-read any fault for me while I waited without charge, presumably on the basis they where going to get the work one way or the other anyway because they knew me and knew I wasnt a chancer. They were also in the position to offer used parts and or had a huge stock of used parts to try for diagnostics to prove out the 'machines not always right' issues.
blank said:
£16k for a diagnostic tool is a hell of a lot. You could get a few different genuine manufacturer ones for that.
A decent multi brand one is more like £5k then £1k a year for updates.
Yeah, so there we go. As a percentage of annual costs for a garage with three general bays and an mot bay, 6 mechanics and two receptionists on the books.A decent multi brand one is more like £5k then £1k a year for updates.
DoubleD said:
Flumpo said:
I understand the various reasons for the charge. To an extent that’s all fair. But I’m willing to bet the main dealer £60+ contains a large mark up beyond paying for the machine and updates.
But I dare say all of us company directors aren’t driving tvrs due to fair mark ups?
That mark up is profit, I dont think any of us would expect a company to not want to make a profit.But I dare say all of us company directors aren’t driving tvrs due to fair mark ups?
Searider said:
dhutch said:
Evercross said:
I sympathise with the OP to certain extent as there is an element of 'rent-seeking' going on with diagnostics. Various government bodies have put pressure on manufacturers to standardise diagnostic systems with varying levels of success (standard ports, locations, protocols etc.) but the manufacturers always look for ways of maintaining the closed-shop.
I guess one of the issuesJaredVannett said:
What's the subscription cost for AutoLogic Diagnostic Kits (Dealer level diagnosis) these days..... £16k?
I guess if it really is substantially more than that, a lift and the overheads on the roof over it, then maybe there is some logic between in effect taking it off the bill of and oil change or mot, routine service items that do not need that equipment.sjg said:
What if it wasn't a sensor?
Decent garages aren't using a £20 ebay special code reader either, it's Delphi or similar at 4-figures minimum for the kit and hundreds every year to keep it up to date.
But then if if it is actually just £8000 and £500 a year, thats back to the same point that I would personally expect it to be just part of the labour.Decent garages aren't using a £20 ebay special code reader either, it's Delphi or similar at 4-figures minimum for the kit and hundreds every year to keep it up to date.
Hard to know.
So I guess it comes down to; as a percentage of garages annual cost, how much is the diagnostics kit?
Daniel
It’s general garage equipment and should be included in the ridiculously high hourly rate.
dhutch said:
I know this is an old topic, but then years on, I still dont get why it is a separate charge.
Fair enough if you are asking for diagnostics alone, but if you are a regular customer and it is part of them doing the work?
ABS light on the e46 has come on, some googling later, 98% points to a sensor failure. Struggle to make time to spend the car myself, so into the garage it goes. I tell them the exact symptoms, and they agree it seems like a sensor failure. Front sensors are £36 and handed, rears are £60 and not.
Bill comes out at £135+vat, of which:
£36 is the sensor
£45 diagnostics fee
£54 therefore labour
£27 vat on top
£45+vat is £54
I can almost understand it back in the days where it was special new/rare kit, but 98% cars they see much have an obd port now, at which point it is as common as putting a car on the lift. Can you imagine if you went in for an exhaust at it had an extra £50 stuck on for 'use of a lift' as well as parts and labour?
Daniel
Did you know which sensor it was that needed replacing? Fair enough if you are asking for diagnostics alone, but if you are a regular customer and it is part of them doing the work?
ABS light on the e46 has come on, some googling later, 98% points to a sensor failure. Struggle to make time to spend the car myself, so into the garage it goes. I tell them the exact symptoms, and they agree it seems like a sensor failure. Front sensors are £36 and handed, rears are £60 and not.
Bill comes out at £135+vat, of which:
£36 is the sensor
£45 diagnostics fee
£54 therefore labour
£27 vat on top
£45+vat is £54
I can almost understand it back in the days where it was special new/rare kit, but 98% cars they see much have an obd port now, at which point it is as common as putting a car on the lift. Can you imagine if you went in for an exhaust at it had an extra £50 stuck on for 'use of a lift' as well as parts and labour?
Daniel
I am guessing not, hence the diagnostic charge to find out which sensor it was that needed replacing.
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