RE: Gordon Murray | PH Meets

[Gameface]

GetCarter said:

He offered me one (of the 100 he's making). I asked him how much and he said £600k deposit.

I suggested that I needed to look down the back of HIS sofa...

Do you know him? You never mention it...

[BOR]

New flagship building.

Another announcement about a car which will be another bejewelled cod-piece for oligarchs.

Some more repeats about the F1.

This looks like the build up to a public flotation or sell off to an investment consortium.

If he could get 100 deposits from buyers today, he could have got 100 deposits from buyers five years ago, yet here we are, still looking at vapourware.

I loved what he did with the F1 so I hope he can pull something off this time, but I'm not hugely interested in another pointless 300mph ornament for billionaires.

[Lt. Coulomb]

He seems like a one-hit wonder.

[Crusoe]

As nice as fan driven active aero sounds, is it really going to be practical? A few laps of a clean race track is one thing but imagine the grit, stones, leaves etc. it would suck up if used beyond the track and the sandblasting given to any car behind.

[Equus]

Gameface said:

Do you know him? You never mention it...

[Equus]

BOR said:

...I'm not hugely interested in another pointless 300mph ornament for billionaires.

The thing that bugs me about the project is that he's promoting it as the ultimate driver's car.

So why restrict production to such limited levels that you know they're going to be bought almost entirely by speculators, and never really driven?

[Unexpected Item In The Bagging Area]

Equus said:

Gameface said:

Do you know him? You never mention it...

It seems to me that GM has gone too far down the road of focusing on figures and tech, but I guess that’s the way of securing the interest of potential buyers these days as all the other supercar manufacturers do the same.

[PaulJC84]

Looks and reads like it would be a very special car. Also an interesting point on how many cars have actually been brought to market that Gordon Murray has designed.

I remember the city car he designed and hoped to sell the rights to build to someone. It would be cool if this could happen with the T50 to say Mclaren.

[Pommy]

GetCarter said:

Pommy said:

It'll never happen - hes just making up random numbers and spruiking a product telling everyone he's almost sold out to get some cash to get 'something'off the ground.

100 buyers to get £60m already? So 100 people have already put down £600k each without any firm product from a bloke who hasnt produced what he said he would for last 25 years?

I do hope im wrong but theres no evidence or reassurance this will ever happen and the only thing being produced is a salesmans pitch.

No. As I mentioned, he's been flying around the world meeting people to whom £600k is small change and getting a firm commitment from them that they want one. As the F1 has proved, in 10 years time they'll be worth 10 or 20 times as much, so it's a no-brainer to spend the cash.

If you think it's a cost thing for GMD ... take a look at the new premises (currently being built).

https://www.designengine.co.uk/projects/gordon-mur...

As for not producing what he said he would, He's sold the MOTIV.e to Yamaha, and the TVR to Ted Edgar. Both on time and under budget.

He is undoubtedly an engineering genius, an ideas man and a visionary, but in terms of manufacturing a full and final vehicle that’s what he brings - visions but no reality.

He is also an inherent salesman. And you may well know him but all you’ve heard is what we are all reading...from what he has said himself in interviews.

If you go back to the interviews when he was introducing the T25 and subsequently the T27 (and recently the T43) they were just like the one we are talking about now for the T50..it’ll be like nothing else...it’ll be revolutionary...it’ll be simple, efficient, light, amazing to drive...followed by very specific stats about power, weight, dimensions, speed, space, cost - all very specific for a car that hasn’t been built or tested in any form of Pre-production capacity.

They are always just theoretical numbers - for cars that don’t exist in production form.

He has an amazing brain for what he ‘thinks’ a car should be but he hasn’t actually ever built a road car himself and has no evidence that this is going to change. He’s rolling out the same style sales pitch to journalists just like in every case before.

With regards to his sale of process and engineering to both Yamaha and TVR - where are the cars? Where is a product. Either stuck in development (TVR) or closed down (Yamaha Car Division).

It should also be remembered what he did with them is the equivalent of me designing the worlds most environmentally efficient house brick, telling you all what an amazing house I’m going to build with my brick and then simply selling the design of my brick to a home builder who actually never uses them commercially.

So, I think he has an amazing design and engineering consultancy, as evidenced by his lavish new offices, but as a stand-alone car manufacturer he’s the kings new clothes. There is no evidence he will actually build the car or having actually sold any yet and this has been the same ever since he set up on his own so forgive me for my lack of belief in the outcome as I simply have not seen any of his GM Cars come to life. I have read lots of interviews with rock solid facts and definitives but not actually seen a car.

I hope I’m wrong, I truly do as a British (South African? ) designed and made car is a thing to celebrate so I suppose we watch this space.

Edit:

P.s - from 2010 for the T25 - all sounds familiar in terms of content and specificity:

The T.25 features a 660cc three-cylinder engine with 51 hp (38 kW / 52 PS) and 57 Nm (42 lb-ft) of torque. It enables the car to accelerate from 0-62 mph (0-100 km/h) in 16.2 seconds.

Gordon Murray Design has released the first images of the T.25 City Car, ahead of it's unveiling at the Smith School's World Forum on Enterprise and the Environment, later today.

Looking like a futuristic Smart fortwo, the T.25 measures 2.4m long, 1.3m wide, and 1.6m tall. It has a McLaren F1-style three person seating arrangement and a "world leading 6 meter turning circle."

Power is provided by a 660cc three-cylinder engine with 51 hp (38 kW / 52 PS) and 57 Nm (42 lb-ft) of torque. Connected to a five-speed semi-automatic transmission, the 575 kg (1268 lb) T.25 accelerates from 0-62 mph (0-100 km/h) in 16.2 seconds and has a limited top speed of 145 km/h (90 mph). While it's not fast, the car is expected to achieve a combined 74 mpg-imp (3.83 L/100km) while emitting 86 grams of CO2 per kilometer.

If that isn't green enough for you, GMD has previously released specifications for the T.27 Electric City Car. It boasts a 12 kWh lithium-ion battery and a small electric motor with 25 kW (34 hp / 34 PS) and 875 Nm (645 lb-ft) of torque. The powertrain enables the T.27 to accelerate from 0-62 mph (0-100 km/h) in less than 15 seconds, before topping out at 105 km/h (65 mph). The 680 Kg (1,500 lb) ECC will have a range of 129-161 kilometers (80-100 miles).

Edited by Pommy on Thursday 12th December 12:03

[Wammer]

big_rob_sydney said:

hothatchery7 said:

Wammer said:

Well as Lewis Hamiltons Zonda 760LH had a manual gear box that he requested, im not exactly sure what your point is.

I think his point is that people have they’re own preferences and don’t blindly follow famous people.

All that, plus a subtle dig at the forums self-proclaimed driving gods. The idea that it "must" be NA V12 and manual. Please. If people making such ridiculous comments about road cars are actually half as good as their over-inflated egos suggest, I recommend they turn up to the first F1 race and actually SHOW people their driving skills, rather than post unaccomplished BS in forums.

Could not agree with you more. I hate armchair F1 drivers, i don't think they realise what goes in to becoming an F1 driver. I have had countless arguments with people saying that Hamilton isn't an athlete and i point out to them that he does over 3 hours of training every day and that Button used train with the Brownlee Brothers and has competed in a number of professional triathlons.

[Kolbenkopp]

Pommy said:

So, I think he has an amazing design and engineering consultancy, as evidenced by his lavish new offices, but as a stand-alone car manufacturer he’s the kings new clothes. There is no evidence he will actually build the car or having actually sold any yet and this has been the same ever since he set up on his own so forgive me for my lack of belief in the outcome as I simply have not seen any of his GM Cars come to life.

Very much unfortunately, I think GM has no interest in doing anything else than engineering consultancy. It's totally up to the customers to build the cars. Yamaha stopped their long planned entry, new TVR seem to have a fairly wobbly business plan. Of most other projects we will probably never hear, NDAs and all that :-/.

The T50 is probably a bit of Fabergé car manufacturing on the side that GM can indulge in without much risk. They are commiting to building it themselves and I think they will deliver. Also excellent marketing if it works out.

What would interest _me_ more is a maker bringing the T43 to market. But looking at all the uncertainty in the auto business, I fear no one is keen to take a gamble on this. Shame all the super rich seem to like as hobby is ruining wineyards or going racing .