What is a drivers car to you?
Discussion
SidewaysSi said:
A Subaru Legacy. Preferably one of those Spec B things.
Fast, raw, wild. It has the configuration of a 911 too so it is sporty, has amazing handling and will s
t on any RWD car you care to mention.
Definitely, but less of a driver's car, and more a Driving God's car Fast, raw, wild. It has the configuration of a 911 too so it is sporty, has amazing handling and will s
t on any RWD car you care to mention.
Frankly, I stand in bewildered awe at anyone who can pilot such a magnificent machine.
Edited by TheJimi on Friday 13th December 08:33
Ajsimp said:
Ford puma 1.7. Had a loan of one from work for a week a few years after they were released. Had a smile on my face all week as I was living in West Cork (rural windy roads) Lovely steering, great playful chassis balance and the 1.7l engine surprised me with eagerness to rev. Adding two large paggangers upset the balance but over the years I have kept an eye on one for a bit of fun but trying to find a rust free example is tough! Never had a go in a puma sport though!
I think and car can become a drivers car as you learn the limits of the car you're driving! I have had great fun drives from Ferraris, astons to Hyundais. Find the chuck ability of the smaller fords so much fun though!
Fare play getting a large passenger in the back of a puma I think and car can become a drivers car as you learn the limits of the car you're driving! I have had great fun drives from Ferraris, astons to Hyundais. Find the chuck ability of the smaller fords so much fun though!
Edited by Ajsimp on Friday 13th December 02:47
I agree though , great handling , great gear change , revy little engine and absolute bargains.
egor110 said:
Ajsimp said:
Ford puma 1.7. Had a loan of one from work for a week a few years after they were released. Had a smile on my face all week as I was living in West Cork (rural windy roads) Lovely steering, great playful chassis balance and the 1.7l engine surprised me with eagerness to rev. Adding two large paggangers upset the balance but over the years I have kept an eye on one for a bit of fun but trying to find a rust free example is tough! Never had a go in a puma sport though!
I think and car can become a drivers car as you learn the limits of the car you're driving! I have had great fun drives from Ferraris, astons to Hyundais. Find the chuck ability of the smaller fords so much fun though!
Fare play getting a large passenger in the back of a puma I think and car can become a drivers car as you learn the limits of the car you're driving! I have had great fun drives from Ferraris, astons to Hyundais. Find the chuck ability of the smaller fords so much fun though!
Edited by Ajsimp on Friday 13th December 02:47
I agree though , great handling , great gear change , revy little engine and absolute bargains.
Pretty sure passenger space in the back is fairly low down the list of components...
TheJimi said:
egor110 said:
Ajsimp said:
Ford puma 1.7. Had a loan of one from work for a week a few years after they were released. Had a smile on my face all week as I was living in West Cork (rural windy roads) Lovely steering, great playful chassis balance and the 1.7l engine surprised me with eagerness to rev. Adding two large paggangers upset the balance but over the years I have kept an eye on one for a bit of fun but trying to find a rust free example is tough! Never had a go in a puma sport though!
I think and car can become a drivers car as you learn the limits of the car you're driving! I have had great fun drives from Ferraris, astons to Hyundais. Find the chuck ability of the smaller fords so much fun though!
Fare play getting a large passenger in the back of a puma I think and car can become a drivers car as you learn the limits of the car you're driving! I have had great fun drives from Ferraris, astons to Hyundais. Find the chuck ability of the smaller fords so much fun though!
Edited by Ajsimp on Friday 13th December 02:47
I agree though , great handling , great gear change , revy little engine and absolute bargains.
Pretty sure passenger space in the back is fairly low down the list of components...
egor110 said:
TheJimi said:
egor110 said:
Ajsimp said:
Ford puma 1.7. Had a loan of one from work for a week a few years after they were released. Had a smile on my face all week as I was living in West Cork (rural windy roads) Lovely steering, great playful chassis balance and the 1.7l engine surprised me with eagerness to rev. Adding two large paggangers upset the balance but over the years I have kept an eye on one for a bit of fun but trying to find a rust free example is tough! Never had a go in a puma sport though!
I think and car can become a drivers car as you learn the limits of the car you're driving! I have had great fun drives from Ferraris, astons to Hyundais. Find the chuck ability of the smaller fords so much fun though!
Fare play getting a large passenger in the back of a puma I think and car can become a drivers car as you learn the limits of the car you're driving! I have had great fun drives from Ferraris, astons to Hyundais. Find the chuck ability of the smaller fords so much fun though!
Edited by Ajsimp on Friday 13th December 02:47
I agree though , great handling , great gear change , revy little engine and absolute bargains.
Pretty sure passenger space in the back is fairly low down the list of components...
Statement retracted
Edited by TheJimi on Friday 13th December 09:55
Bagzie88 said:
Alex_225 said:
I derive pleasure from two aspects of driving.
I still enjoy the actual art of driving, manual gear changes, sharp steering and decent grip. The kind of experience that my Twingo 133 provides.
On the flip side, I also enjoy long drives so comfort, features and a decent amount of power are preferred. My CLS63 offers just that. I get enjoyment from the sheer noise and power of the thing, whilst wafting along!
I actually looked at the twingo 133 when I bought the Swift Sport , I probably would have got it if I had the financial ability to have the BMW M135i aswell.I still enjoy the actual art of driving, manual gear changes, sharp steering and decent grip. The kind of experience that my Twingo 133 provides.
On the flip side, I also enjoy long drives so comfort, features and a decent amount of power are preferred. My CLS63 offers just that. I get enjoyment from the sheer noise and power of the thing, whilst wafting along!
I ended up with the Swift Sport because it's a very similar car to the twingo 133 whilst having Sat Nav , a 6th gear and cruise control.
Little Quality of life things you want from a fun daily I guess.
Shoulda done better at school and maybe I could have a setup like you haha :P
I always had a soft spot for the Twingo 133 mainly as I've always been a RenaultSport fan. Then they released the Gordini edition and I was sold. The styling was a little fussy but it had things I considered rather nice in a little relatively cheap car - full leather interior, climate control, upgraded stereo and cruise control.
Ironically it's never been used as a daily car so I could have got away with a 133 Cup which is somewhat spartan haha. Great little cars though. Quite underrated and often overlooked.
SidewaysSi said:
A Subaru Legacy. Preferably one of those Spec B things.
Fast, raw, wild. It has the configuration of a 911 too so it is sporty, has amazing handling and will st on any RWD car you care to mention.
Really ?Fast, raw, wild. It has the configuration of a 911 too so it is sporty, has amazing handling and will s
t on any RWD car you care to mention.I had a legacy gtb so twin turbo , proper factory bilstein suspension and found it was fast but so capable that it pretty much drove itself .
Most driving was done on/around exmoor so proper windy b roads plus some open moorland , all the hot hatches i've had ( clio 182's , clio cup, puma) have felt much more involving to drive in comparison .
egor110 said:
SidewaysSi said:
A Subaru Legacy. Preferably one of those Spec B things.
Fast, raw, wild. It has the configuration of a 911 too so it is sporty, has amazing handling and will st on any RWD car you care to mention.
Really ?Fast, raw, wild. It has the configuration of a 911 too so it is sporty, has amazing handling and will s
t on any RWD car you care to mention.I had a legacy gtb so twin turbo , proper factory bilstein suspension and found it was fast but so capable that it pretty much drove itself .
Most driving was done on/around exmoor so proper windy b roads plus some open moorland , all the hot hatches i've had ( clio 182's , clio cup, puma) have felt much more involving to drive in comparison .
Biker's Nemesis said:
My current Mk1 Focus RS.
It's not that fast in a straight line but it can hang onto anything I've ever come across on the back roads of rural Northumberland.
I’ve kind of gotten to the same stage now myself in that the best fun for me these days is in a c.200bhp smallish hatch, FWD with a diff, driven down a back road I know pretty well. Luckily here in Ireland we have quite a few, and the introduction of motorways over the last couple of decades ensures that they’re generally quiet enough most of the timeIt's not that fast in a straight line but it can hang onto anything I've ever come across on the back roads of rural Northumberland.
I’ve tried all these back roads with old and new RWD and 4WD stuff, but I keep coming back to the above recipe that works best for me. I’m more than happy to admit I don’t have either the skills or the bravery to tackle said roads with maximum attack in something with bigger power though. I’ve tried to get close, but I’m unwilling and unable to carry the speeds I feel are required to get full enjoyment from a car with 350+bhp. A good hot hatch allows me to make very reasonable progress, but within my limits for what is still a public road, and yet thoroughly enjoy it all too
PH card will be returned if this is deemed to break any driving god rules!
In my defence, I do also enjoy an occasional blatt down an autobahn trying to get to VMax - a bit childish but it’s fun to meLet me suggest a wide, but generally true definition of a "drivers car"
"Any car where pure function has been explicitly compromised in order to increase the enjoyment of the driver"
For example:
an elise hasn't got big doors, which makes it functionally "difficult" to get into, but as a result, it has a very stiff, very light chassis, meaning it can handle very well
A clio 182 cup has silly expensive dampers than wear out a rust very quickly (compared to std dampers) but they are fitted to bring a level of body and wheel control that a standard damper cannot ever hope to provide
A 997 GT-3 RS, that has plastic rear window you can't see out of, a rear spoiler you can't see past, and a load of scafolding where the back seats and luggage should be, all in order to reduce mass, provide downforce, and provide stiffness
"Any car where pure function has been explicitly compromised in order to increase the enjoyment of the driver"
For example:
an elise hasn't got big doors, which makes it functionally "difficult" to get into, but as a result, it has a very stiff, very light chassis, meaning it can handle very well
A clio 182 cup has silly expensive dampers than wear out a rust very quickly (compared to std dampers) but they are fitted to bring a level of body and wheel control that a standard damper cannot ever hope to provide
A 997 GT-3 RS, that has plastic rear window you can't see out of, a rear spoiler you can't see past, and a load of scafolding where the back seats and luggage should be, all in order to reduce mass, provide downforce, and provide stiffness
Max_Torque said:
Let me suggest a wide, but generally true definition of a "drivers car"
"Any car where pure function has been explicitly compromised in order to increase the enjoyment of the driver"
For example:
an elise hasn't got big doors, which makes it functionally "difficult" to get into, but as a result, it has a very stiff, very light chassis, meaning it can handle very well
A clio 182 cup has silly expensive dampers than wear out a rust very quickly (compared to std dampers) but they are fitted to bring a level of body and wheel control that a standard damper cannot ever hope to provide
A 997 GT-3 RS, that has plastic rear window you can't see out of, a rear spoiler you can't see past, and a load of scafolding where the back seats and luggage should be, all in order to reduce mass, provide downforce, and provide stiffness
I can see why this is the case in those specific examples, but is it really true generally? Your logic assumes that function is implicitly always at odds with enjoyment."Any car where pure function has been explicitly compromised in order to increase the enjoyment of the driver"
For example:
an elise hasn't got big doors, which makes it functionally "difficult" to get into, but as a result, it has a very stiff, very light chassis, meaning it can handle very well
A clio 182 cup has silly expensive dampers than wear out a rust very quickly (compared to std dampers) but they are fitted to bring a level of body and wheel control that a standard damper cannot ever hope to provide
A 997 GT-3 RS, that has plastic rear window you can't see out of, a rear spoiler you can't see past, and a load of scafolding where the back seats and luggage should be, all in order to reduce mass, provide downforce, and provide stiffness
A car that makes you work to get the best out of it
My Cupra 4Drive whilst far more composed across country than my old M135i is also far less of a drivers car, but I also do not regard the M135i as a drivers car as its not well resolved enough
To me its not about speed or accelerations, its about the components working together but at all times the driver making the decision and paying the price if the wrong decision is made
My old 205 GTi was a drivers car, my Westfield most definitely was and so will my Tuscan, every car I have owned has been too well mannered or too encumbered with safety nets
My Cupra 4Drive whilst far more composed across country than my old M135i is also far less of a drivers car, but I also do not regard the M135i as a drivers car as its not well resolved enough
To me its not about speed or accelerations, its about the components working together but at all times the driver making the decision and paying the price if the wrong decision is made
My old 205 GTi was a drivers car, my Westfield most definitely was and so will my Tuscan, every car I have owned has been too well mannered or too encumbered with safety nets
Leins said:
Biker's Nemesis said:
My current Mk1 Focus RS.
It's not that fast in a straight line but it can hang onto anything I've ever come across on the back roads of rural Northumberland.
I’ve kind of gotten to the same stage now myself in that the best fun for me these days is in a c.200bhp smallish hatch, FWD with a diff, driven down a back road I know pretty well. Luckily here in Ireland we have quite a few, and the introduction of motorways over the last couple of decades ensures that they’re generally quiet enough most of the timeIt's not that fast in a straight line but it can hang onto anything I've ever come across on the back roads of rural Northumberland.
I’ve tried all these back roads with old and new RWD and 4WD stuff, but I keep coming back to the above recipe that works best for me. I’m more than happy to admit I don’t have either the skills or the bravery to tackle said roads with maximum attack in something with bigger power though. I’ve tried to get close, but I’m unwilling and unable to carry the speeds I feel are required to get full enjoyment from a car with 350+bhp. A good hot hatch allows me to make very reasonable progress, but within my limits for what is still a public road, and yet thoroughly enjoy it all too
PH card will be returned if this is deemed to break any driving god rules!
In my defence, I do also enjoy an occasional blatt down an autobahn trying to get to VMax - a bit childish but it’s fun to meIt’s funny the things that stick in your mind. I remember reading a post on here by a guy with a c500bhp EVO, and he was saying that can and does frequently use the entire performance envelope on the road.
I always remember that post pulling me up short, thinking that either he was just giving it billy big balls, or he actually does what he says and is a complete certifiable nutter.
cerb4.5lee said:
From the sports car thread is has been mentioned that having a clutch pedal alone doesn't make a car a drivers car.
So what ingredients does a car need to make it a drivers car to you?
Well, I think the opening condition regarding the clutch is very subjective, as for me a clutch pedal is essential for it being a "driver's car".So what ingredients does a car need to make it a drivers car to you?
More involvement over the gear change, involvement how the gear engages, the required attention needed for choice of gears for the upcoming road conditions and intentions with the car, or even the ability to remove 'drive' and coast (for what ever reason that may be), the point being the driver involvement is such that you are in more control, which for me is an essential part of what I would consider a "driver's car".
Other ingredients would be a car that offers a level of enjoyment reward for the effort the driver puts in. This again is subjective, but for example this could be something like the 'harder' the car is driven, the more it puts a smile on your face. Or if there is a particular nuance of the car in terms of character or handling etc. that may be realised when the driver does a particular action or input, which again delivers something enjoyable, this too would be something to make the car a "driver's car".
Personally I enjoy the characteristics of a high powered rear wheel drive, manual 6-speed box and a rear mechanical limited slip differential.
That combination of features often creates a car that has characteristics that, for me, make a good "driver's car".
Add in to that mix a good responsive chassis and good handling that means when you focus and put in the effort, to a level that is not overwhelming, you can see noticeable differences/gains - of which would put a smile on your face of course.
I spent a number of my younger years racing cars around various tracks in the UK and of course removing the need to use a clutch pedal on gear shifts is 'quicker', but in a racing environment the car is simply a tool to win against your competitor's tools. A "driver's car" in my criteria, is something to use on the public roads, either for everyday use or for weekend enjoyment. The aim of a race car is to make the driver's job as easy as possible to go as fast as possible, to me this is not the criteria of a "driver's car" because extra effort of the driver usually just means a quicker lap time rather than extra enjoyment in terms of the car's characteristics.
For example, its often fun to get the rear to step out slightly whilst powering around a corner, in a pure lap time environment this extra effort can be a negative for the purpose it is driven for. And by that there is a difference between using a car as a 'tool' rather than as a "driver's car".
Just my personal opinions of course, others are free to disagree.
NotNormal said:
73 replies and hardly any mention of the way a car sounds. Based on the comments on a lot of PH threads that is surprising 
The noise a car makes is right at the top of the list for me personally. The cars I've generally not got along with that well have fell a little short in the sound department(usually when they are too muted). Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff