Best hot hatch of the century - the results!

[J4CKO]

Mr Whippy said:

MattHall91 said:

As a 140i owner, I concede its’ comparatively poor chassis and steering in this sort of company. However, it we are taking ‘hot hatch’ literally, it hits the brief, and 340bhp from 6 cylinders being channelled to the rear is - rightly or wrongly - a rare and desirable mix.

I hope most petrol heads would rather not see the extinction of cars like this. The rate of change to electric is only going to speed up.

To be fair, if it’s automatic it may as well be electric with speakers making noises... as it already partly does.

I’d have a manual 3dr one to ‘drive’

The 5dr looks too much like a bread van, and as an auto it must be boring to drive as a hot hatch.

Sort of agree, I dont mind the looks to be honest,

But, though the auto box is brilliant, it isnt a manual and that, for me, I now realise is a big part of the appeal of a drivers car.

There is fun to be had, but its glimpses and you need to put it into Sport Plus, or turn the TCS off (if you have space, are Chris Harris or unhinged), then put it into Sports mode on the gearbox (knock the lever left) grab it by the scruff, use the gears manually on the paddles and throw it about, and at that point there is some hint of a playfulness. But even then, its still not manual and the limitations of the chassis, steering and lack of an LSD come into focus.

Rest of the time, its a one series that accelerates faster than most other one series, the ride is pretty good, the brakes are effective and despite the fairly drab interior, its pretty comfortable and decent to drive.

Not tried a manual version but think that may make enough difference and I would possibly address the other issues with some mods, but as it is I will just run it and change it next year, or keep it as a daily and get an MX5 to mess with.



But in the top ten hot hatches ever, its like me making top ten sexiest blokes ever

[cerb4.5lee]

PTF said:

My dream garage would contain an M140i auto as a daily driver (because it would be a great way to get from A-B quickly and is happy being driven at 8/10ths),

I'd imagine the M140i to be a cracking daily. Plenty fast enough and relatively comfortable, and like many others I don't see it as a Hot Hatch. There is just too much typical BMW cruising nature about it for me.

[MattHall91]

cerb4.5lee said:

PTF said:

My dream garage would contain an M140i auto as a daily driver (because it would be a great way to get from A-B quickly and is happy being driven at 8/10ths),

I'd imagine the M140i to be a cracking daily. Plenty fast enough and relatively comfortable, and like many others I don't see it as a Hot Hatch. There is just too much typical BMW cruising nature about it for me.

That’s exactly what mine is - a daily that offers some excitement from a great engine, that costs no more than a VW 2.0 TFSI engine to run.

Re the point and squirt comment above: I wish it was but try it in the damp versus a Golf R and see which is the easy, less involving one.

[TREMAiNE]

300bhp/ton said:

Is the Panda really that good?

Yes. They really are an absolute blast to thrash. A real 'grab it by the scruff of its neck' car - but that is what will determine whether you love it or not.
If you enjoy revving the nuts out of the enjoy and keeping in the powerband at all times, it's a great car to chuck about and keep the momentum going. If you don't want to work for the fun, you'll find it slow and boring.

300bhp/ton said:

Especially at steering feel?

No. Feels decent enough but I can't say the steering feel was memorable - but I've not driven other class rivals to compare.

[acme]

Anyone had a MK7 Fiesta ST & a Trophy & able to compare & contrast them? Even better in that order.

Cheers

[Richyboy]

172 cup with coilovers and recaros, giant killer. I miss that car so much.

[daytonavrs]

There seems to be some with a puritan assessment here of validating worthy vs not worthy hot hatches UNLESS they follow the exact 40 year old recipe of same weight and power as the originals - OR instead taking them infinite conclusion of being a "track car ready" vehicle ....
I don't really follow that argument and find it odd.....

The wikis/definition lookups seem to be more simplified and suggest that its just a performance version of a standar car. How well that performance tuning was applied to a specific car is surely a separate debate and when did anyone agree it had to be track nimble or prepared to be a hot hatch?

I find it stange to alienate the Beemer in the line up ( and I'm not really a BMW advocate) just because its the less balanced of the arrangement.
What would you call it then?

None of my cars I own would fit into the top 10 for instance, but in real worlld driving I've past plenty of 100hp Panda or 130hp Suzuki Swifts in either my Fabia (now200hp), or even better my MQB engined 2.0 TSI replacement for it.

However I've always accepted ( and been told) the Fabia is nothing more than warm,
how can those kind of cars in modern terms be anything like a hot hatch in anything but very outdated terms?
So I think its fair to include the BMW...........
If its not a fast hatch, what moniker would you give to it then ?

Edited by daytonavrs on Tuesday 24th December 19:56

[Hol]

daytonavrs said:

There seems to be some with a puritan assessment here of validating worthy vs not worthy hot hatches

There were two whole threads to nominate and vote what the parameters should or should not be.

Maybe you missed it last time around??


https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...

https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...

Edited by Hol on Tuesday 24th December 20:40

[PorkFan]

Not sure if a DC2 really counts as a "hatch" in my eyes....I see it as more of a coupe personally....but either way, for the EK9 or DC2 to not even get on the list...when a watered down UK EP3 that doesnt even have an LSD comes in at third???....Take a look at secondhand values if you want to see which is the better car.

Pulsar GTi-R? a car from 1990 that did 0-60 in low 5's?

Plenty of more deserving cars missing from the list.....but to be honest, the "proper" list, would probably only contain Hondas and Renaults anyway

[Turbojuice]

Jesus wept, how many people can't read the bloody title!? Clearly says best hatch OF THE CENTURY

[white_goodman]

What with all the love for the hot Renaults, I'm surprised that this didn't get a look in, as I seem to remember that it beat all but the 911R in eCOTY one year and that included stuff like the R8 V10 Plus, McLaren 570S, AM Vantage GT8, 2WD Hurracan etc. It's also the "original" popular hot hatch but I expect that not many of us have driven one. I wonder how the more recent Golf GTI TCR compares...

Glad that the Golf R didn't make the list but the mk5 GTI deserves its place, as it rebooted the Golf GTI and put it back at the top. Probably not as good as the Clubsport S but more practical with the rear seats and accessible to more people, as well as being the best all-rounder at the time (much better than the standard RS Megane 225 for example).

[white_goodman]

PTF said:

Had an M135i. I echo the sentiments above. It felt more like a normal 1 series with a monster engine than a hot hatch. Mine was a manual and it's not the best gearbox out there. I think the auto would suit that engine much better.

My dream garage would contain an M140i auto as a daily driver (because it would be a great way to get from A-B quickly and is happy being driven at 8/10ths), and a BRZ as a second car for messing about in and trackdays (because it isn't overwhelmed with power yet has delightful chassis/steering/gearchange combo).

M140i/M135i isn't really a hot hatch if the definition is track focus, steering feel, and enjoying a lovely manual gearchange. However it is a hot hatch if the definition is straight line performance and epic engine.

I think I'm with you there. That would be a great combo but then would I need rear seats in my track/fun car and maybe an open roof would be nice too, so MX5?

Can't really justify two cars though, so what to do? I love the big engine in a smallish car formula of the M135i/M140i and of the two it would certainly be the nicer place to sit but I think that I'd probably find the auto a bit uninvolving as my only car. So get the supposedly inferior manual version for the extra involvement or get the GT86/BRZ and put up with the lack of power, relative impracticality and cheap interior? I've driven one though and the handling and "feel" were sublime, a revelation for a modern car. I haven't felt that "connected" to a car since my 205 GTi.

Provided that you're not biased against FWD/towards RWD though, a good FWD hot hatch could offer a pretty good compromise in one car. Fiesta ST maybe?

[SimeRS]

Good list not supposed to see so many Renaultsports in but agree with others the megane mk3 should of been in I had a 250 cup and it was a great hot hatch now have a Clio 200 and love it too. Also missing from the list is the mk2 focus Rs brilliant hot hatch wrc styling very cool and great fun to drive would easily take a focus Rs or megane Rs over the Alfa or bmw 140 which no doubt is a fast car but not really a hot hatch in the true sense of it, much more of a small muscle car normal 1 series with a great engine.

[KTMsm]

white_goodman said:

or get the GT86/BRZ and put up with the lack of power, relative impracticality and cheap interior?

I've driven one though and the handling and "feel" were sublime, a revelation for a modern car. I haven't felt that "connected" to a car since my 205 GTi.

I think you need to try a good old car again - I recently bought a supercharged GT86 and it's going - poor steering feel, notchy gearbox, appalling throttle mapping.

[CABC]

KTMsm said:

I think you need to try a good old car again - I recently bought a supercharged GT86 and it's going - poor steering feel, notchy gearbox, appalling throttle mapping.

what are you comparing it with? most moderns have poor throttle maps and electric steering. it would have remapped after fitting SC.
86 is no Lotus, but it compares very well to cars of this century. my own map 'moved the dip left' and sharpened the throttle too.
I think Gordon Murray is on the right track by restoring (er, completely reengineering) a Ford Escort.

[KTMsm]

CABC said:

what are you comparing it with? most moderns have poor throttle maps and electric steering. it would have remapped after fitting SC.
86 is no Lotus, but it compares very well to cars of this century. my own map 'moved the dip left' and sharpened the throttle too.
I think Gordon Murray is on the right track by restoring (er, completely reengineering) a Ford Escort.

As stated I'm comparing it to old cars - I wouldn't own any modern car for fun, they're all crap

[Leon R]

Driven every modern car have you?

[KTMsm]

Leon R said:

Driven every modern car have you?

I've driven many of "the best ones"

As I like lightweight, RWD cars, with an LSD, a linear throttle with no delay and plenty of steering feel which do you recommend ?

Because most say the GT86 and it's rubbish

[cerb4.5lee]

KTMsm said:

Leon R said:

Driven every modern car have you?

I've driven many of "the best ones"

As I like lightweight, RWD cars, with an LSD, a linear throttle with no delay and plenty of steering feel which do you recommend ?

Because most say the GT86 and it's rubbish

I think that a GT86 as standard is rubbish, but I'm a bit confused, because with a turbo or a supercharger bolted to it(like yours) then surely that would be a different kettle of fish?

[M.F.D]

Also surprised the Mk3 Megane didn't make the list. Dominated the hot hatch sector for ages, and manufacturers have only recently caught up.

M140i is a surprise. More to a hot hatch than a blistering engine.