Re : The Alpine A110 (finally) cometh | PH Fleet

[DoubleD]

bcr5784 said:

DoubleD said:

No, I think they could have done a better job.

Given that the budget was limited and had to be carefully considered what, as a designer, would you spend your budget on? A manual gearbox which would be quite expensive and constraining to engineer PROPERLY, but which hardly anyone would buy, or spend it on a bespoke set of gear ratios for the automatic box which would be the choice of the great majority of buyers? From a hard headed perspective it's a no-brainer.

Yes I see that. Shame though as it could have been so much better.

[Miserablegit]

I think at the price level they managed to release it at they did an outstanding job.

[100 OCTANE]

DoubleD said:

No, I think they could have done a better job.

What would you suggest, without spending extra money.

[bcr5784]

DoubleD said:

Yes I see that. Shame though as it could have been so much better.

Explain HOW? As far as I am concerned they made the right commercial choices.

[DoubleD]

For me, a sports car needs to have a manual gearbox, but others are happy with an automatic. Thats fine, but its not for me, so that is why I think they could have made a better sports car than what they ended up with.

[rufusgti]

DoubleD said:

bcr5784 said:

DoubleD said:

No, I think they could have done a better job.

Given that the budget was limited and had to be carefully considered what, as a designer, would you spend your budget on? A manual gearbox which would be quite expensive and constraining to engineer PROPERLY, but which hardly anyone would buy, or spend it on a bespoke set of gear ratios for the automatic box which would be the choice of the great majority of buyers? From a hard headed perspective it's a no-brainer.

Yes I see that. Shame though as it could have been so much better.

I can't speak with any experience in these matters. I've never driven a car with an auto or semi auto or whatever they are called these days. But when you say "it could have been so much better" you can only be speaking of your personal ideals. Alpine will fully know what it's customer wants, what they value and play to that. They're not going to be in the game of making cars nobody wants. So you are probably in the minority of people who would want the manual. Or at least the minority of buyers, who wanted manual. Almost certainly not the minority on PH forum or in general. But they are playing to the actual customer.

My guess is there was a decision to stick with the semi auto as a way of separating itself from its competitors. It was probably never going to be as light or focussed as a Lotus. So keeping directly out of its competition could be a good move.

It wouldn't bother me in the slightest that it's not manual. I bet it drives better than 99% of cars on the road. I absolutely love it!

[100 OCTANE]

DoubleD said:

For me, a sports car needs to have a manual gearbox, but others are happy with an automatic. Thats fine, but its not for me, so that is why I think they could have made a better sports car than what they ended up with.

It not a sport car, it was designed as a every day coupe

[DoubleD]

100 OCTANE said:

DoubleD said:

For me, a sports car needs to have a manual gearbox, but others are happy with an automatic. Thats fine, but its not for me, so that is why I think they could have made a better sports car than what they ended up with.

It not a sport car, it was designed as a every day coupe

Oh well that makes all the difference then......

[bcr5784]

DoubleD said:

For me, a sports car needs to have a manual gearbox, but others are happy with an automatic. Thats fine, but its not for me, so that is why I think they could have made a better sports car than what they ended up with.

If YOU were spending the money on the development and knowing that the market for a manual was small and expensive to cater for why would you spend it on a manual/ We get that you prefer a manual but car makers have to base their decisions on commercial realities. A better job in the real world is one that is commercially successful - not one that particularly satisfies a narrow fringe market (in what is already a niche market).

Practically no supercar manufacturers produce cars with manual gearboxes - if it made commercial sense they would.

But have you actually driven one? And would you ACTUALLY buy one if it had a manual gearbox. If not the fact that theoretically you would prefer a manual becomes irrelevant.

Edited by bcr5784 on Sunday 26th January 20:54

Edited by bcr5784 on Sunday 26th January 20:56

[Hungrymc]

100 OCTANE said:

DoubleD said:

For me, a sports car needs to have a manual gearbox, but others are happy with an automatic. Thats fine, but its not for me, so that is why I think they could have made a better sports car than what they ended up with.

It not a sport car, it was designed as a every day coupe

That’s my main impression from my test drive. I was expecting it to all be focused on being alive and fun. It was actually remarkably refined.

It’s a cracking sports coupe. I think it’s slightly miss reported / represented which is why you get people making these observations.

It’s certainly more Cayman competitor than Elise..... It is very good at what it does,

[DoubleD]

bcr5784 said:

DoubleD said:

For me, a sports car needs to have a manual gearbox, but others are happy with an automatic. Thats fine, but its not for me, so that is why I think they could have made a better sports car than what they ended up with.

If YOU were spending the money on the development and knowing that the market for a manual was small and expensive to cater for why would you spend it on a manual/ We get that you prefer a manual but car makers have to base their decisions on commercial realities. A better job in the real world is one that is commercially successful - not one that particularly satisfies a narrow fringe market (in what is already a niche market)

But have you actually driven one? And would you ACTUALLY buy one if it had a manual gearbox. If not the fact that theoretically you would prefer a manual becomes irrelevant.

Edited by bcr5784 on Sunday 26th January 20:54

Yep, they have obviously had to compromise with the money that they had. Shame.

[Miserablegit]

Every car is a compromise in one way or another
Your constant whinge about no manual is getting tiresome.
It isn’t the car for you and that is fine but the rest of us don’t need to be reminded constantly. I don’t have time to tell the internet about every car I don’t like.

[DoubleD]

Miserablegit said:

Every car is a compromise in one way or another
Your constant whinge about no manual is getting tiresome.
It isn’t the car for you and that is fine but the rest of us don’t need to be reminded constantly. I don’t have time to tell the internet about every car I don’t like.

Stop replying then, easy.

[Miserablegit]

This is a thread about a car I’m interested in.

[DoubleD]

I get that. But you talk about me and manual gearboxes, so I reply.

[Julian Thompson]

One point to make is probably obvious but the lack of a manual gearbox issue is one which crops up in almost every single article, discussion and forum ranting session - it’s not just PH.

For that reason, and because surely everyone who buys an A110 is a confirmed petrolhead, it actually might not be fair to say that “the market only wants an auto” in the case of a car like this. “The Market” might like auto. “The lightweight special sports car Market” might just prefer a manual.

[bcr5784]

Julian Thompson said:

One point to make is probably obvious but the lack of a manual gearbox issue is one which crops up in almost every single article, discussion and forum ranting session - it’s not just PH.

For that reason, and because surely everyone who buys an A110 is a confirmed petrolhead, it actually might not be fair to say that “the market only wants an auto” in the case of a car like this. “The Market” might like auto. “The lightweight special sports car Market” might just prefer a manual.

But in the context of the (UK) RHD market can you really suggest that developing a RHD manual option was anywhere near commercially viablle. Frankly I'm surprised that they thought it commercially sensble to have a RHD drive car at all. I think we should be truly grateful that we have a RHD car at all.

[cerb4.5lee]

I think it is a difficult one regards the gearbox and you have to try to understand the remit of the A110 for me. On the one hand most of us see it as a lightweight sports car...yet it has an auto gearbox and very soft supple suspension which lends it to being a very usable daily.

If it wasn't so light(so you start thinking Lotus like) I think we would all just see it as a sporty coupe and then an auto gearbox isn't a problem. Most of us see it as a sports car though(I think) so then we automatically(excuse the pun) think that it should have a manual gearbox.

It is a breath of fresh air either way though and I'm very glad that it exists for sure.

[Miserablegit]

bcr5784 said:

But in the context of the (UK) RHD market can you really suggest that developing a RHD manual option was anywhere near commercially viablle. Frankly I'm surprised that they thought it commercially sensble to have a RHD drive car at all. I think we should be truly grateful that we have a RHD car at all.

This is my view - LHD manual or RHD DCT. Like you I’m grateful they made it RHD bearing in mind the limited numbers they anticipate selling in the UK.

[Julian Thompson]

Absolutely agreed that the UK was lucky to get a RHD one. So if that was the choice, they made the right one.