Re : The Alpine A110 (finally) cometh | PH Fleet

[100 OCTANE]

DoubleD said:

bcr5784 said:

DoubleD said:

For me, a sports car needs to have a manual gearbox, but others are happy with an automatic. Thats fine, but its not for me, so that is why I think they could have made a better sports car than what they ended up with.

If YOU were spending the money on the development and knowing that the market for a manual was small and expensive to cater for why would you spend it on a manual/ We get that you prefer a manual but car makers have to base their decisions on commercial realities. A better job in the real world is one that is commercially successful - not one that particularly satisfies a narrow fringe market (in what is already a niche market)

But have you actually driven one? And would you ACTUALLY buy one if it had a manual gearbox. If not the fact that theoretically you would prefer a manual becomes irrelevant.

Edited by bcr5784 on Sunday 26th January 20:54

Yep, they have obviously had to compromise with the money that they had. Shame.

They had to meet a price point to compete, but they have exceed the specification and the build quality of the competition.

[100 OCTANE]

TurboBlue said:

I'm not sure where they are getting all the data from, but here is a comparison between the S and not-S; sometimes the not-S appears to be quicker while using gears whereas the S is quicker when in gear times are measured. It is all very subjective an utterly within the margin of error and I'd doubt you'd be able to tell the difference in performance. I think the handling and roadholding would feel noticeably different and that might affect a circuit time more.

Duel : Alpine A110 II S vs Alpine A110 II

I thought this might help to clarify
https://youtu.be/uFV1EEX-jvU

[Gary C]

cerb4.5lee said:

just see it as a sporty coupe and then an auto gearbox isn't a problem..

I assure you, I would still see an auto as a problem in a sporty coupe.

But thats just me

[cerb4.5lee]

Gary C said:

cerb4.5lee said:

just see it as a sporty coupe and then an auto gearbox isn't a problem..

I assure you, I would still see an auto as a problem in a sporty coupe.

But thats just me

I was trying to be as kind as I could be!

I do get frustrated with my bias to three pedals though sometimes...because I feel that it really limits my choice of performance car now. Pretty much every performance car comes with only two pedals currently.

[Gary C]

cerb4.5lee said:

Gary C said:

cerb4.5lee said:

just see it as a sporty coupe and then an auto gearbox isn't a problem..

I assure you, I would still see an auto as a problem in a sporty coupe.

But thats just me

I was trying to be as kind as I could be!

I do get frustrated with my bias to three pedals though sometimes...because I feel that it really limits my choice of performance car now. Pretty much every performance car comes with only two pedals currently.

yes, and its a shame with the Alpine because it could have been even lighter with a manual

• If it had been designed to take one from day 1

[Miserablegit]

This is why low volume cars are DCT - someone else directed me to this site:


Almost no-one is buying manuals. For all the chat about driving gods the numbers tell a different story.

[anonymous-user]

cerb4.5lee said:

Pretty much every performance car comes with only two pedals currently.

It can be summarised in two words, torque management.

Install a nice computer to manage torque right through the driveline and although "driver involvement" may be reduced there are other benefits,

• Improved performance statistics
• Improved reliability
• Lighter components
• Improved economy
• Reduced emissions.

We might not like it, but it appears to be the future.

[Gary C]

Miserablegit said:

This is why low volume cars are DCT - someone else directed me to this site:

Almost no-one is buying manuals. For all the chat about driving gods the numbers tell a different story.

just because people are following the marketing hype, doesn't make our opinion wrong.

Lets be honest about it, they have been picked up and pushed by manufacturers to reduce the cars emissions.

[Miserablegit]

Gary C said:

just because people are following the marketing hype, doesn't make our opinion wrong.

Lets be honest about it, they have been picked up and pushed by manufacturers to reduce the cars emissions.

The people spending the money are buying the car they prefer to drive. They aren’t all following the marketing hype. DCT allows better performance.

The figures are there and are not simply dismissed as marketing hype.
For Uk driving I’d be looking at a PDK cayman rather than a manual as the manual’s gearing is too long for my idea of fun at UK speeds.

[Gary C]

Miserablegit said:

rather than a manual as the manual’s gearing is too long for my idea of fun at UK speeds.

Thats not the fault of being manual.

True, people are buying DCT boxes, and yes they are a fantastic piece of tech, but the manufactures went for them because of emissions.

People are also like sheep.

[Miserablegit]

You can’t throw that at Alpine buyers...

[Gary C]

Miserablegit said:

You can’t throw that at Alpine buyers...

That is certainly true

I apologise for the inference

Dont get me wrong, I like the Alpine, its an almost perfect car for me.

[Miserablegit]

No need to apologise - a lot of people are like sheep

[DoubleD]

Gary C said:

Thats not the fault of being manual.

True, people are buying DCT boxes, and yes they are a fantastic piece of tech, but the manufactures went for them because of emissions.

People are also like sheep.

Yep I agree, some are.

[Gary C]

DoubleD said:

Gary C said:

Thats not the fault of being manual.

True, people are buying DCT boxes, and yes they are a fantastic piece of tech, but the manufactures went for them because of emissions.

People are also like sheep.

Yep I agree, some are.

maybe I should stop bleating about it

[SirTK]

I prefer auto - always have, even though most of the cars I've had only came as manuals. Changing gear is over-rated once you've truly mastered it, especially given that there's not really much to master.

If the A110 had only been available as a manual I would still have bought one.

If it only came as manual and LHD I would still have bought one.

I'm really happy it is DCT and RHD, but it's not that big a deal. The gearbox, much like the rest of the experience, is sheer joy.

[Julian Thompson]

Don’t forget, also. Lots of us are unimpressed by the new cars. So we are buying old ones.

That doesn’t mean the buying public isn’t buying cars. It’s not the same thing...

[Miserablegit]

Julian Thompson said:

Don’t forget, also. Lots of us are unimpressed by the new cars. So we are buying old ones.

That doesn’t mean the buying public isn’t buying cars. It’s not the same thing...

I understand but to a manufacturer it is the same thing- if you aren’t buying one of their new cars

[TurboBlue]

100 OCTANE said:

TurboBlue said:

I'm not sure where they are getting all the data from, but here is a comparison between the S and not-S; sometimes the not-S appears to be quicker while using gears whereas the S is quicker when in gear times are measured. It is all very subjective an utterly within the margin of error and I'd doubt you'd be able to tell the difference in performance. I think the handling and roadholding would feel noticeably different and that might affect a circuit time more.

Duel : Alpine A110 II S vs Alpine A110 II

I thought this might help to clarify
https://youtu.be/uFV1EEX-jvU

Yes, that is interesting, appears that the S is increasingly faster once you get into 3rd/4th gear from around 90kph onwards; I'd like to see it verified by a full road and track test with gps tracking though! I'd also note that the non-S was carrying an almost full tank of fuel while the S was nearly empty (70 vs. 380 km remaining range) and that the S was warmer (they both were a bit cool for a max rev's test for me).

[bcr5784]

SirTK said:

I prefer auto - always have, even though most of the cars I've had only came as manuals. Changing gear is over-rated once you've truly mastered it, especially given that there's not really much to master.

If the A110 had only been available as a manual I would still have bought one.

If it only came as manual and LHD I would still have bought one.

I'm really happy it is DCT and RHD, but it's not that big a deal. The gearbox, much like the rest of the experience, is sheer joy.

Though I wouldn't actually say I prefer auto, (I like good examples of both auto and manual) I don't understand the religious fervour which some have for manuals.The manual gearbox as it is today, with three pedals, for two feet, is just an accident of history. There is an interesting youtube about the tesla from Engineering Explained https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cXkRcuwoIm4 It considers how an internal combustion engine would be viewed if we had been driving electric cars for a 100 years - and the internal combustion engine was newly invented. He doesn't send up the internal combustion engine quite as well as Bob Newhart would have - but he does give serious pause for thought.

Edited by bcr5784 on Tuesday 28th January 08:34

Edited by bcr5784 on Tuesday 28th January 08:45