Re : The Alpine A110 (finally) cometh | PH Fleet
Discussion
Onehp said:
Venisonpie said:
Interesting they've halved production and not stopped like the German and Italian "sports" car makers..
Article is from 29 November 2019, so long before Covid19...Also before the lasts news of the 'suv' and special versions with new colors etc.
Edited by Onehp on Saturday 21st March 09:19
Reducing production to reflect reducing demand is a refreshingly sensible approach all round.
Make one fewer car than you can sell.
Helicopter123 said:
Christ, stick a manual gear-box in it and widen the appeal !!
Honestly; no it won't make a big difference...stick a Porsche badge on it and it will sell. The appeal of the Alpine brand is something that is not so big outside of France. I had people come up to me and say; what happend to your M2 and why did you buy a Renault (I still have my M2). Then there were other people who said; wow great you bought a Alpine instead of a Porsche. Let's be honest; hom many real petrolheads (that buy cars with their own money) are there still out there anno 2020, who value driving feel more over image or brand? And how many petrolheads really want to shift gears themselves in day to day traffic and live with the fact that they know their car is slower then the DCT version. I would; that is why I have a manual M2 (it even costs me more in yearly tax because of the higher Co2 then the DCT version). But In reality I'm the only guy with a manual M2 at my local BMW dealer and nobody understands why I bought the slower, more fuel consuming, less comfortable, higher taxed manual version. When I say it more fun; they look at me and think "you are crazy and live in the past"! In reality even if people have the choice between manual and DCT, the DCT version will sell way more then the manual. Thats the reality outside of forums
Yes, in general.
But turn it around. Say the few people that actually DO value light weight very highly AND actually appreciate the Alpine brand. That those quite rare attributes combined perhaps/maybe° go together with also WANTING (that is, will actually end up buying) one ONLY if it's a manual?
That's my situation, I very much like the A110 for what it represent (concept and brand), but the final big I MUST HAVE ONE sentiment just isn't there, for want of a (good) manual.... This might be internet, but I've also taken the time to check them out in the only official showroom in my country and have the means if there is the WANT...
(° Maybe marketing was looking and expecting too much of the 'general public' and forgot to check with much smaller but still significant 'hardcore enthusiast' group that won't show up on a general demographic check??)
PS: and while the GT3 is a good point, the A110 is actually very much NOT a track/lap times car where you must hit that 9000 rpm to get the most power yet you need to be bloody quick not to slam the limiter....
PPS: couldn't care less about lap times, this car is about (daily usuable) driving feel and maximal interaction with the road and the vehicle, incl. the drivetrain. For me...
But turn it around. Say the few people that actually DO value light weight very highly AND actually appreciate the Alpine brand. That those quite rare attributes combined perhaps/maybe° go together with also WANTING (that is, will actually end up buying) one ONLY if it's a manual?
That's my situation, I very much like the A110 for what it represent (concept and brand), but the final big I MUST HAVE ONE sentiment just isn't there, for want of a (good) manual.... This might be internet, but I've also taken the time to check them out in the only official showroom in my country and have the means if there is the WANT...
(° Maybe marketing was looking and expecting too much of the 'general public' and forgot to check with much smaller but still significant 'hardcore enthusiast' group that won't show up on a general demographic check??)
PS: and while the GT3 is a good point, the A110 is actually very much NOT a track/lap times car where you must hit that 9000 rpm to get the most power yet you need to be bloody quick not to slam the limiter....
PPS: couldn't care less about lap times, this car is about (daily usuable) driving feel and maximal interaction with the road and the vehicle, incl. the drivetrain. For me...
Edited by Onehp on Sunday 22 March 08:01
I suspect what they’ve done is looked at the actual sales of manual vs DCT cars in the segment vs the cost of developing, producing and supporting a manual option and determined that it’s not worth the cost.
It will be just that simple, they are in business to make money, if they thought a manual option would be profitable then there would be one.
It will be just that simple, they are in business to make money, if they thought a manual option would be profitable then there would be one.
charltjr said:
I suspect what they’ve done is looked at the actual sales of manual vs DCT cars in the segment vs the cost of developing, producing and supporting a manual option and determined that it’s not worth the cost.
It will be just that simple, they are in business to make money, if they thought a manual option would be profitable then there would be one.
I truly get that. Not saying they must make a manual 'for those 5 peeps on PH who 'would' buy one'. It will be just that simple, they are in business to make money, if they thought a manual option would be profitable then there would be one.
But I do wonder if marketing perhaps missed something. Exactly by using your above reasoning and making the mistake to compare the market for this car to other 'mainstream sportscars', when it isn't mainstream. It doesn't have headline power or engine, nor brand status (it seems they arenrealising this now). Instead (next realisation?), perhaps the actual reality is that the strenghths of the car that also appeal to a rather narrow demographic actually combine very well with the very small demographic that actually requires a manual gearbox in order to buy??
Not telling them what to do, just wondering and explaining my perspective as a big 'fan' but alas not 'wannabe owner'.
If Alpine were completely obsessed with lightweight it would have a manual gearbox because they are lighter than a DCT.
The marketing of the DCT by all manufacturers has been excellent though. Advertising that they are faster/better on fuel/cheaper on tax/you will feel like a F1 driver if you use the paddles...really draws everyone in(apart from the 5 of us on here).
The marketing of the DCT by all manufacturers has been excellent though. Advertising that they are faster/better on fuel/cheaper on tax/you will feel like a F1 driver if you use the paddles...really draws everyone in(apart from the 5 of us on here).
cerb4.5lee said:
If Alpine were completely obsessed with lightweight it would have a manual gearbox because they are lighter than a DCT.
The marketing of the DCT by all manufacturers has been excellent though. Advertising that they are faster/better on fuel/cheaper on tax/you will feel like a F1 driver if you use the paddles...really draws everyone in(apart from the 5 of us on here).
Didn't alpine say when they 1st released the car that the dct is actually lighter hence why they used it ?The marketing of the DCT by all manufacturers has been excellent though. Advertising that they are faster/better on fuel/cheaper on tax/you will feel like a F1 driver if you use the paddles...really draws everyone in(apart from the 5 of us on here).
egor110 said:
cerb4.5lee said:
If Alpine were completely obsessed with lightweight it would have a manual gearbox because they are lighter than a DCT.
The marketing of the DCT by all manufacturers has been excellent though. Advertising that they are faster/better on fuel/cheaper on tax/you will feel like a F1 driver if you use the paddles...really draws everyone in(apart from the 5 of us on here).
Didn't alpine say when they 1st released the car that the dct is actually lighter hence why they used it ?The marketing of the DCT by all manufacturers has been excellent though. Advertising that they are faster/better on fuel/cheaper on tax/you will feel like a F1 driver if you use the paddles...really draws everyone in(apart from the 5 of us on here).
cerb4.5lee said:
If Alpine were completely obsessed with lightweight it would have a manual gearbox because they are lighter than a DCT.
The marketing of the DCT by all manufacturers has been excellent though. Advertising that they are faster/better on fuel/cheaper on tax/you will feel like a F1 driver if you use the paddles...really draws everyone in(apart from the 5 of us on here).
Its a compromise, alpine arent obsessed by reducing weight, very few mainstream manufactures are, so they compromised between a fairly light car and a useable car. Shame about the lack of manual, but there you go. The marketing of the DCT by all manufacturers has been excellent though. Advertising that they are faster/better on fuel/cheaper on tax/you will feel like a F1 driver if you use the paddles...really draws everyone in(apart from the 5 of us on here).
Onehp said:
Yes, in general.
But turn it around. Say the few people that actually DO value light weight very highly AND actually appreciate the Alpine brand. That those quite rare attributes combined perhaps/maybe° go together with also WANTING (that is, will actually end up buying) one ONLY if it's a manual?
That's my situation, I very much like the A110 for what it represent (concept and brand), but the final big I MUST HAVE ONE sentiment just isn't there, for want of a (good) manual.... This might be internet, but I've also taken the time to check them out in the only official showroom in my country and have the means if there is the WANT...
(° Maybe marketing was looking and expecting too much of the 'general public' and forgot to check with much smaller but still significant 'hardcore enthusiast' group that won't show up on a general demographic check??)
PS: and while the GT3 is a good point, the A110 is actually very much NOT a track/lap times car where you must hit that 9000 rpm to get the most power yet you need to be bloody quick not to slam the limiter....
PPS: couldn't care less about lap times, this car is about (daily usuable) driving feel and maximal interaction with the road and the vehicle, incl. the drivetrain. For me...
Good Post, captures my feelings as well.But turn it around. Say the few people that actually DO value light weight very highly AND actually appreciate the Alpine brand. That those quite rare attributes combined perhaps/maybe° go together with also WANTING (that is, will actually end up buying) one ONLY if it's a manual?
That's my situation, I very much like the A110 for what it represent (concept and brand), but the final big I MUST HAVE ONE sentiment just isn't there, for want of a (good) manual.... This might be internet, but I've also taken the time to check them out in the only official showroom in my country and have the means if there is the WANT...
(° Maybe marketing was looking and expecting too much of the 'general public' and forgot to check with much smaller but still significant 'hardcore enthusiast' group that won't show up on a general demographic check??)
PS: and while the GT3 is a good point, the A110 is actually very much NOT a track/lap times car where you must hit that 9000 rpm to get the most power yet you need to be bloody quick not to slam the limiter....
PPS: couldn't care less about lap times, this car is about (daily usuable) driving feel and maximal interaction with the road and the vehicle, incl. the drivetrain. For me...
Edited by Onehp on Sunday 22 March 08:01
What an enthusiast looks for in a sports car is often quite different from what most motorists look for in their daily driver. Driving feel and involvement matter more than pub bragging rights over 0-60 times IMO.
Helicopter123 said:
Onehp said:
Yes, in general.
But turn it around. Say the few people that actually DO value light weight very highly AND actually appreciate the Alpine brand. That those quite rare attributes combined perhaps/maybe° go together with also WANTING (that is, will actually end up buying) one ONLY if it's a manual?
That's my situation, I very much like the A110 for what it represent (concept and brand), but the final big I MUST HAVE ONE sentiment just isn't there, for want of a (good) manual.... This might be internet, but I've also taken the time to check them out in the only official showroom in my country and have the means if there is the WANT...
(° Maybe marketing was looking and expecting too much of the 'general public' and forgot to check with much smaller but still significant 'hardcore enthusiast' group that won't show up on a general demographic check??)
PS: and while the GT3 is a good point, the A110 is actually very much NOT a track/lap times car where you must hit that 9000 rpm to get the most power yet you need to be bloody quick not to slam the limiter....
PPS: couldn't care less about lap times, this car is about (daily usuable) driving feel and maximal interaction with the road and the vehicle, incl. the drivetrain. For me...
Good Post, captures my feelings as well.But turn it around. Say the few people that actually DO value light weight very highly AND actually appreciate the Alpine brand. That those quite rare attributes combined perhaps/maybe° go together with also WANTING (that is, will actually end up buying) one ONLY if it's a manual?
That's my situation, I very much like the A110 for what it represent (concept and brand), but the final big I MUST HAVE ONE sentiment just isn't there, for want of a (good) manual.... This might be internet, but I've also taken the time to check them out in the only official showroom in my country and have the means if there is the WANT...
(° Maybe marketing was looking and expecting too much of the 'general public' and forgot to check with much smaller but still significant 'hardcore enthusiast' group that won't show up on a general demographic check??)
PS: and while the GT3 is a good point, the A110 is actually very much NOT a track/lap times car where you must hit that 9000 rpm to get the most power yet you need to be bloody quick not to slam the limiter....
PPS: couldn't care less about lap times, this car is about (daily usuable) driving feel and maximal interaction with the road and the vehicle, incl. the drivetrain. For me...
Edited by Onehp on Sunday 22 March 08:01
What an enthusiast looks for in a sports car is often quite different from what most motorists look for in their daily driver. Driving feel and involvement matter more than pub bragging rights over 0-60 times IMO.
SidewaysSi said:
Helicopter123 said:
Onehp said:
Yes, in general.
But turn it around. Say the few people that actually DO value light weight very highly AND actually appreciate the Alpine brand. That those quite rare attributes combined perhaps/maybe° go together with also WANTING (that is, will actually end up buying) one ONLY if it's a manual?
That's my situation, I very much like the A110 for what it represent (concept and brand), but the final big I MUST HAVE ONE sentiment just isn't there, for want of a (good) manual.... This might be internet, but I've also taken the time to check them out in the only official showroom in my country and have the means if there is the WANT...
(° Maybe marketing was looking and expecting too much of the 'general public' and forgot to check with much smaller but still significant 'hardcore enthusiast' group that won't show up on a general demographic check??)
PS: and while the GT3 is a good point, the A110 is actually very much NOT a track/lap times car where you must hit that 9000 rpm to get the most power yet you need to be bloody quick not to slam the limiter....
PPS: couldn't care less about lap times, this car is about (daily usuable) driving feel and maximal interaction with the road and the vehicle, incl. the drivetrain. For me...
Good Post, captures my feelings as well.But turn it around. Say the few people that actually DO value light weight very highly AND actually appreciate the Alpine brand. That those quite rare attributes combined perhaps/maybe° go together with also WANTING (that is, will actually end up buying) one ONLY if it's a manual?
That's my situation, I very much like the A110 for what it represent (concept and brand), but the final big I MUST HAVE ONE sentiment just isn't there, for want of a (good) manual.... This might be internet, but I've also taken the time to check them out in the only official showroom in my country and have the means if there is the WANT...
(° Maybe marketing was looking and expecting too much of the 'general public' and forgot to check with much smaller but still significant 'hardcore enthusiast' group that won't show up on a general demographic check??)
PS: and while the GT3 is a good point, the A110 is actually very much NOT a track/lap times car where you must hit that 9000 rpm to get the most power yet you need to be bloody quick not to slam the limiter....
PPS: couldn't care less about lap times, this car is about (daily usuable) driving feel and maximal interaction with the road and the vehicle, incl. the drivetrain. For me...
Edited by Onehp on Sunday 22 March 08:01
What an enthusiast looks for in a sports car is often quite different from what most motorists look for in their daily driver. Driving feel and involvement matter more than pub bragging rights over 0-60 times IMO.
Onehp said:
Yes, in general.
But turn it around. Say the few people that actually DO value light weight very highly AND actually appreciate the Alpine brand. That those quite rare attributes combined perhaps/maybe° go together with also WANTING (that is, will actually end up buying) one ONLY if it's a manual?
That's my situation, I very much like the A110 for what it represent (concept and brand), but the final big I MUST HAVE ONE sentiment just isn't there, for want of a (good) manual.... This might be internet, but I've also taken the time to check them out in the only official showroom in my country and have the means if there is the WANT...
(° Maybe marketing was looking and expecting too much of the 'general public' and forgot to check with much smaller but still significant 'hardcore enthusiast' group that won't show up on a general demographic check??)
Actually fair point; maybe marketing was looking too much to the general public and forgot about a 'hardcore enthusiast' group. but this groups are mostly rather small. I know our Alpine sale center struggles in selling and tI have the feeling hey are focussed on the more general public. All the enthousiasts who wanted one; already bought one in my country. But turn it around. Say the few people that actually DO value light weight very highly AND actually appreciate the Alpine brand. That those quite rare attributes combined perhaps/maybe° go together with also WANTING (that is, will actually end up buying) one ONLY if it's a manual?
That's my situation, I very much like the A110 for what it represent (concept and brand), but the final big I MUST HAVE ONE sentiment just isn't there, for want of a (good) manual.... This might be internet, but I've also taken the time to check them out in the only official showroom in my country and have the means if there is the WANT...
(° Maybe marketing was looking and expecting too much of the 'general public' and forgot to check with much smaller but still significant 'hardcore enthusiast' group that won't show up on a general demographic check??)
For me personally if I could only keep one car in my garage it would 100% be my manual M2...is love this car so much and it does so many things very well. 5 min into the initial testdrive I had the that feeling; "I MUST HAVE ONE". The Alpine is actually my girlfriend her car (she bought it, but I drive it more then she does
). After the initial Alpine testdrive she also said "I MUST HAVE ONE"...but she always wanted a DCT equipped car (coming from driving my Z4M as her daily driver) so that is a different story. When she was thinking about A110 vs Cayman vs Boxster...the choice was A110 straight away (with the big plus that it is not a Porsche).Onehp said:
PS: and while the GT3 is a good point, the A110 is actually very much NOT a track/lap times car where you must hit that 9000 rpm to get the most power yet you need to be bloody quick not to slam the limiter....
PPS: couldn't care less about lap times, this car is about (daily usuable) driving feel and maximal interaction with the road and the vehicle, incl. the drivetrain. For me...
I drive on track regularly (mostly Nurburgring), but for me it's all about the fun and the experience. Laptimes are cool on paper...but there will always be someone faster. In the end; trackdays are for fun and there are no prizes to win. If I had 200.000euro extra for another car I would 100% go for a manual 991.2 GT3 and not the faster GT3RS. Even if I win millions; the first car I would get is (pre OPF) manual 991.2 GT3 clubsport. PPS: couldn't care less about lap times, this car is about (daily usuable) driving feel and maximal interaction with the road and the vehicle, incl. the drivetrain. For me...
Edited by Franzino on Sunday 22 March 11:13
As a fan of the ‘60s Alpine, I’ve followed the new model with interest.
Do I want one: yes, it’s pretty and has a unique ethos in modern cars.
Could I afford one: yeah, with a years depreciation.
Does dct put me off: hate to say it,not really. Modern traffic is so bad,and apart from the 1960/70’s range of Ford gearbox’s I’ve never had a gear change I enjoyed. And yes I owned a mx5.
Regarding main dealers.... I live just off the M4 in South Wales. Ok,it’s hardly London but my nearest dealer is over 200 miles away. More UK coverage would be good.
Do I want one: yes, it’s pretty and has a unique ethos in modern cars.
Could I afford one: yeah, with a years depreciation.
Does dct put me off: hate to say it,not really. Modern traffic is so bad,and apart from the 1960/70’s range of Ford gearbox’s I’ve never had a gear change I enjoyed. And yes I owned a mx5.
Regarding main dealers.... I live just off the M4 in South Wales. Ok,it’s hardly London but my nearest dealer is over 200 miles away. More UK coverage would be good.
charltjr said:
I suspect what they’ve done is looked at the actual sales of manual vs DCT cars in the segment vs the cost of developing, producing and supporting a manual option and determined that it’s not worth the cost.
It will be just that simple, they are in business to make money, if they thought a manual option would be profitable then there would be one.
I think this is indeed 100% the case and for most sport cars it is 100% so. Back in the days when Ferrari and Lamborghini introduces paddle shifters and they became good. The orders of a manual Gallardo, Murcielago and F430 went to zero in no time. That is why all those brands stopped making and developing manual cars, because there was almost no demand. But of course Alpine is for other people then Lambo, Ferrari and (in my eyes) it would made a lot of sense to make the A110 a manual car....for what it represents. But honestly I think I'm a minority and most people would still want a DCT nowadays... I personally think that if the A110 would be manual only they would sell even less, but I would like it even more and I love it already (even with the DCT and I'm far from a DCT lover). Business wise it just did not make sense to develop both gearboxes; better to have one good gearbox then two bad ones and then DCT wins (sale wise) these days. It will be just that simple, they are in business to make money, if they thought a manual option would be profitable then there would be one.
DoubleD said:
Its a compromise, alpine arent obsessed by reducing weight, very few mainstream manufactures are, so they compromised between a fairly light car and a useable car. Shame about the lack of manual, but there you go.
It's a compromise; weight - comfort - useability - price...but they did a very good job.Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff