Re : The Alpine A110 (finally) cometh | PH Fleet
Discussion
SidewaysSi said:
So do you know any enthusiasts?
I know a lot of petrolheads and some enthusiasts (really small group). I have seen a shift the last couple of years and most of them al have DCT equipped cars nowadays (M3, Porsche 991, Cayman 981, Ferrari, Lambo etc). They all bought DCT cars, with the idea then I will use the car more often in everyday traffic. Most of these guys understand why I bought a manual M2, but they would never have bought it themselves (it's my daily + occasional track)...besides one guy who bought the same car as mine. Then there are the pure driving enthusiasts who drive a normal car everyday and have special occasion "manual" cars (997 GT3 RS, Jaguar E type, old 911, etc). They drive their sportscars way less then those other enthusiasts and are becoming a real minority inside the petrolheads world.
To be fair, can't say I know of lot of hardcore enthusiasts.
But purely based on platforms where you have the choice, on VAG hot hatches it's mostly DSG that folks want, but on e.g. the GT86/BRZ, most still choose manual. Perhaps because some will say the auto sucks, but actually on pure driving I didn't think it was much worse then a DSG, but it doesn't have the better numbers. Or is it because numbers is all that matters today? Or is it a manual does gel with small sports cars (the size of a 996) after all?
But purely based on platforms where you have the choice, on VAG hot hatches it's mostly DSG that folks want, but on e.g. the GT86/BRZ, most still choose manual. Perhaps because some will say the auto sucks, but actually on pure driving I didn't think it was much worse then a DSG, but it doesn't have the better numbers. Or is it because numbers is all that matters today? Or is it a manual does gel with small sports cars (the size of a 996) after all?
nickfrog said:
Helicopter123 said:
Christ, stick a manual gear-box in it and widen the appeal !!
How many times are you going to say the same thing?Have you got the fun car yet? There must be some superb deals, time to strike.
SidewaysSi said:
nickfrog said:
Helicopter123 said:
Christ, stick a manual gear-box in it and widen the appeal !!
How many times are you going to say the same thing?Have you got the fun car yet? There must be some superb deals, time to strike.
t. 
TimoMak said:
SidewaysSi said:
nickfrog said:
Helicopter123 said:
Christ, stick a manual gear-box in it and widen the appeal !!
How many times are you going to say the same thing?Have you got the fun car yet? There must be some superb deals, time to strike.
t. Surely it's now time to wrap up the whole Alpine gearbox debate?
I've not been a PH member here for that long but lurked a lot before joining up and pretty much every thread about the A110 has been made unreadable due to the manual vs. DCT mudslinging tournament.
For me it's the most interesting and desirable new car release for years and I'm really keen to read about it, but it always turns into a very frustrating experience. For the record I don't own one, can't afford one, and to be honest probably wouldn't buy one right now even if I could for various reasons. Still nice to read about it though.
Anyway, here is the situation as I see it from my totally non-expert point of view:
The A110 has a DCT 'box
It was budgeted, designed and engineered from the outset for a DCT
The DCT is apparently very good indeed
The A110 will not ever be offered with a manual transmission
It is not that simple just to 'shove a manual in and be done with it'
If you want an A110 with a manual gearbox your luck is very much out so tough ste
Yes it would be nice to have a choice, but on this matter there is no choice
It's DCT or nowt
If you can't manage without a manual 'box the A110 is not the car for you
Please shut up about it
I've not been a PH member here for that long but lurked a lot before joining up and pretty much every thread about the A110 has been made unreadable due to the manual vs. DCT mudslinging tournament.
For me it's the most interesting and desirable new car release for years and I'm really keen to read about it, but it always turns into a very frustrating experience. For the record I don't own one, can't afford one, and to be honest probably wouldn't buy one right now even if I could for various reasons. Still nice to read about it though.
Anyway, here is the situation as I see it from my totally non-expert point of view:
The A110 has a DCT 'box
It was budgeted, designed and engineered from the outset for a DCT
The DCT is apparently very good indeed
The A110 will not ever be offered with a manual transmission
It is not that simple just to 'shove a manual in and be done with it'
If you want an A110 with a manual gearbox your luck is very much out so tough s
teYes it would be nice to have a choice, but on this matter there is no choice
It's DCT or nowt
If you can't manage without a manual 'box the A110 is not the car for you
Please shut up about it
DoubleD said:
I love it when people say there piece but tell others not too.
he has a point though.pages on pages of repetitive nonsense. the problem is that people like shihtzu remain lurkers rather than (possibly) contributing more value to the discussion than most of the regulars. i find it frustrating too as i just want to share experiences and thoughts about cars and driving. Goodwood MM was going to be a lovely weekend with fellow enthusiasts of diverse tastes, now that's gone i'm left with PH.
CABC said:
DoubleD said:
I love it when people say there piece but tell others not too.
he has a point though.pages on pages of repetitive nonsense. the problem is that people like shihtzu remain lurkers rather than (possibly) contributing more value to the discussion than most of the regulars. i find it frustrating too as i just want to share experiences and thoughts about cars and driving. Goodwood MM was going to be a lovely weekend with fellow enthusiasts of diverse tastes, now that's gone i'm left with PH.
CABC you’re spot on, it’s very repetitive and quite off putting. Some really good interesting stuff just gets lost in pages of gearbox debate.
Double D there’s loads and loads of posts suggesting ‘moving on’, but it never happens... always comes back to the same old manual vs DCT stuff. I’m not looking for an argument, I just think it’s gone on too long and it’s maybe time to wrap it up.
As a compromise; possibly have a specific thread about the gearbox? (Serious suggestion)
Double D there’s loads and loads of posts suggesting ‘moving on’, but it never happens... always comes back to the same old manual vs DCT stuff. I’m not looking for an argument, I just think it’s gone on too long and it’s maybe time to wrap it up.
As a compromise; possibly have a specific thread about the gearbox? (Serious suggestion)
Whichever way up you hold it I anticipate Alpine is probably the most successful French sports car builder of all time. It's been around long enough to be in the same age range as some of the world's best known and most successful sports car builders. I guess that if Lotus were used for comparison the key difference would be that at least one Lotus model has been in production every year whereas Alpine has had some long gaps.
Other interesting French sports cars include Venturi Atlantique with effectively their "Esprit GT" and, of course, Matra. If I have my facts right Matra was part of the old Simca company which later got merged into one of the French big three. Matra Simca Bagheera was a mid-engine sports car with three seats, not unlike the McLaren but with all the people sitting side-by-side and the steering position on the left. I have a feeling Matra may have ended up as another part of Renault, building Espace and other lower volume vehicles.
Give him his due - Johnny Frenchman may not have the Italian supercar builders and may not have the German engineering power-houses but he's generally had something interesting to contribute to the automotive world.
Other interesting French sports cars include Venturi Atlantique with effectively their "Esprit GT" and, of course, Matra. If I have my facts right Matra was part of the old Simca company which later got merged into one of the French big three. Matra Simca Bagheera was a mid-engine sports car with three seats, not unlike the McLaren but with all the people sitting side-by-side and the steering position on the left. I have a feeling Matra may have ended up as another part of Renault, building Espace and other lower volume vehicles.
Give him his due - Johnny Frenchman may not have the Italian supercar builders and may not have the German engineering power-houses but he's generally had something interesting to contribute to the automotive world.
rockin said:
Give him his due - Johnny Frenchman may not have the Italian supercar builders and may not have the German engineering power-houses but he's generally had something interesting to contribute to the automotive world.
yep. and the automotive world would be poorer without Citroen's innovation and quirkiness. we all benefit from the variety even if we don't like all the variations.Absolutely... Facel Vega, Alpine, Matra, Ligier, Venturi / Atlantique... the French have given us loads of interesting cars over the years.
As said they may not quite have the cachet of some names (Ferrari, Mercedes, Aston Martin etc) but properly interesting left field creations with character in abundance.
I really like the way they (nearly) always seem to prioritise a comfortable ride no matter what sporting pretensions they have. The Citroens as mentioned above are another matter again, how brave were they to put that suspension into an actual production car? Innovations like that are simply not seen these days.
As said they may not quite have the cachet of some names (Ferrari, Mercedes, Aston Martin etc) but properly interesting left field creations with character in abundance.
I really like the way they (nearly) always seem to prioritise a comfortable ride no matter what sporting pretensions they have. The Citroens as mentioned above are another matter again, how brave were they to put that suspension into an actual production car? Innovations like that are simply not seen these days.
Sorry bout the gearbox posts, I was baited perhaps. Or perhaps shocked by the reduced production, and wondering if another gearbox could help that, exactly because it's such a topic?
Anyhow, noticed I'm 6 months shy of 20 years of membership, and bit more than a thousand posts, so hope I haven't spammed all too much over the years....
Anyhow, noticed I'm 6 months shy of 20 years of membership, and bit more than a thousand posts, so hope I haven't spammed all too much over the years....
Onehp said:
Sorry bout the gearbox posts, I was baited perhaps. Or perhaps shocked by the reduced production, and wondering if another gearbox could help that, exactly because it's such a topic?
Anyhow, noticed I'm 6 months shy of 20 years of membership, and bit more than a thousand posts, so hope I haven't spammed all too much over the years....
My earlier comments were borne of a frustration at every Alpine thread turning into a bun fight over the gearbox.Anyhow, noticed I'm 6 months shy of 20 years of membership, and bit more than a thousand posts, so hope I haven't spammed all too much over the years....
Genuinely not aimed at anyone in particular. I do accept that there are some valid points raised on the subject though; just too many of them imo.
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