Re : The Alpine A110 (finally) cometh | PH Fleet

[Onehp]

Too early, the S data on ZEPERFS is from one mag only, while the non-S is from 15 different sources and thus more reliable as an average. I do expect the S to be quicker but not massively so... But more fun revving out.

What about a remap taking in easy on torque increase but with a nice top end for the A110...

Edited by Onehp on Thursday 23 January 19:55

[bcr5784]

Hungrymc said:

Isn’t it a car that’s all about the feel and the experience?

I think to try and boil it down to the numbers is really missing the point / underselling it.

As with an Elise etc.

b

Yes! I agree. Just trying objective comparison of the S to non-S. But as you say the appeal of the Alpine is about feel not numbers.

[a110au]

in case it hasnt been mentioned Evo redid a 718 T vs a110 test
it originally came out as a slight preference for the 718 S but this time they came down favoring the a110 (it was a premiere edition), based on it being more fun even just in a drive to the shops.

[Helicopter123]

Wish they had put a better engine in the S and a manual gearbox. That would have been near perfect.

[s m]

TurboBlue said:

I'm not sure where they are getting all the data from, but here is a comparison between the S and not-S; sometimes the not-S appears to be quicker while using gears whereas the S is quicker when in gear times are measured. It is all very subjective an utterly within the margin of error and I'd doubt you'd be able to tell the difference in performance. I think the handling and roadholding would feel noticeably different and that might affect a circuit time more.

Duel : Alpine A110 II S vs Alpine A110 II

Was anyone actually able to determine which car mag had done a proper test on the ‘S’? i.e. where zeperfs were sourcing their data from?

Just looks like manufacturer figures in the brief pre- test reviews I’ve seen?

[Onehp]

s m said:

TurboBlue said:

I'm not sure where they are getting all the data from, but here is a comparison between the S and not-S; sometimes the not-S appears to be quicker while using gears whereas the S is quicker when in gear times are measured. It is all very subjective an utterly within the margin of error and I'd doubt you'd be able to tell the difference in performance. I think the handling and roadholding would feel noticeably different and that might affect a circuit time more.

Duel : Alpine A110 II S vs Alpine A110 II

Was anyone actually able to determine which car mag had done a proper test on the ‘S’? i.e. where zeperfs were sourcing their data from?

Just looks like manufacturer figures in the brief pre- test reviews I’ve seen?

Like I posted before, S data has one source (French 'Auto Plus') and the non-S 15 publications. Sources are given on the individual car page just above the performance stats.

So wouldn't draw too many conclusions from the S data, but await more proper tests.

Edited by Onehp on Saturday 25th January 07:17

[Miserablegit]

a110au said:

in case it hasnt been mentioned Evo redid a 718 T vs a110 test
it originally came out as a slight preference for the 718 S but this time they came down favoring the a110 (it was a premiere edition), based on it being more fun even just in a drive to the shops.

On the basis the a110 outperforms the Cayman S it seems pointless to compare it with a lesser model? I mean if the A110 had the performance of the T I can’t imagine the press being as kind.

[bcr5784]

Miserablegit said:

On the basis the a110 outperforms the Cayman S it seems pointless to compare it with a lesser model? I mean if the A110 had the performance of the T I can’t imagine the press being as kind.

Not wishing to defend Porsche, but there is precious little difference in through the gears performance between a Base PDK 718 and an A110 - see http://www.zeperfs.com/en/duel6621-6350.htm The Porsche is quicker off the mark but the Alpine accelerates a tad quicker thereafter. The Alpine is however much more flexible in significant part by virtue of lower gearing.

I think the difference in preference of the press is down (as with buyers) to priorities of individual testers. If you consider the 718 engine as an "utter abomination" the 718 has a lot of catching up to do. If on the other hand it just "doesn't sound very nice" then other factors like interior trim and infotainment may (for you) redress the balance.

[100 OCTANE]

Onehp said:

s m said:

TurboBlue said:

I'm not sure where they are getting all the data from, but here is a comparison between the S and not-S; sometimes the not-S appears to be quicker while using gears whereas the S is quicker when in gear times are measured. It is all very subjective an utterly within the margin of error and I'd doubt you'd be able to tell the difference in performance. I think the handling and roadholding would feel noticeably different and that might affect a circuit time more.

Duel : Alpine A110 II S vs Alpine A110 II

Was anyone actually able to determine which car mag had done a proper test on the ‘S’? i.e. where zeperfs were sourcing their data from?

Just looks like manufacturer figures in the brief pre- test reviews I’ve seen?

Like I posted before, S data has one source (French 'Auto Plus') and the non-S 15 publications. Sources are given on the individual car page just above the performance stats.

So wouldn't draw too many conclusions from the S data, but await more proper tests.

Edited by Onehp on Saturday 25th January 07:17

A car acceleration figures in a straight line is academic. The drivability for a given situation is far more important, ie, chassis set up coupled with how the engine/gearbox delivers the power to the rear wheels. I’ve driven both cars A110 & A110S and the S is far quicker.

[Miserablegit]

bcr5784 said:

Not wishing to defend Porsche, but there is precious little difference in through the gears performance between a Base PDK 718 and an A110 - see http://www.zeperfs.com/en/duel6621-6350.htm The Porsche is quicker off the mark but the Alpine accelerates a tad quicker thereafter. The Alpine is however much more flexible in significant part by virtue of lower gearing.

I think the difference in preference of the press is down (as with buyers) to priorities of individual testers. If you consider the 718 engine as an "utter abomination" the 718 has a lot of catching up to do. If on the other hand it just "doesn't sound very nice" then other factors like interior trim and infotainment may (for you) redress the balance.

In a sports car I want engine flexibility and fun. I’ve got a home cinema for infotainment!

I like Porsche but I think they get an easy ride in the press.

[nickfrog]

Helicopter123 said:

Wish they had put a better engine in the S and a manual gearbox. That would have been near perfect.

I thought you said it was a hot hatch in a frock?

Would a different engine and box change that?

[DoubleD]

Helicopter123 said:

Wish they had put a better engine in the S and a manual gearbox. That would have been near perfect.

For me, a manual gearbox is a must, but im not so sure that it needs a better engine. Better in what way?

[Miserablegit]

DoubleD said:

For me, a manual gearbox is a must, but im not so sure that it needs a better engine. Better in what way?

I think he means :

(Stolen from another thread)

[Helicopter123]

nickfrog said:

Helicopter123 said:

Wish they had put a better engine in the S and a manual gearbox. That would have been near perfect.

I thought you said it was a hot hatch in a frock?

Would a different engine and box change that?

A nice 6 cylinder and a manual box would certainly lift the car from its more humble origins, wouldn’t it?

[DoubleD]

Helicopter123 said:

nickfrog said:

Helicopter123 said:

Wish they had put a better engine in the S and a manual gearbox. That would have been near perfect.

I thought you said it was a hot hatch in a frock?

Would a different engine and box change that?

A nice 6 cylinder and a manual box would certainly lift the car from its more humble origins, wouldn’t it?

Well it would certainly make it heavier.

[Miserablegit]

DoubleD said:

Well it would certainly make it heavier.

And no quicker on the basis that is what Porsche did with the GT4 that was, in fact, slower than the 4 pot GTS...

[DoubleD]

Miserablegit said:

DoubleD said:

Well it would certainly make it heavier.

And no quicker on the basis that is what Porsche did with the GT4 that was, in fact, slower than the 4 pot GTS...

Worth it though if it makes it more fun.

[Helicopter123]

DoubleD said:

Miserablegit said:

DoubleD said:

Well it would certainly make it heavier.

And no quicker on the basis that is what Porsche did with the GT4 that was, in fact, slower than the 4 pot GTS...

Worth it though if it makes it more fun.

This, a lovely 6 cylinder option and a manual gearbox would surely appeal to Alpine buyers even if no real performance gain?

[Miserablegit]

That is what a cayman is for.
Additional weight for no performance gain is contrary to the Alpine ethos.

[DoubleD]

Miserablegit said:

That is what a cayman is for.
Additional weight for no performance gain is contrary to the Alpine ethos.

I would have thought that fun was the most important thing rather than performance.