Re : The Alpine A110 (finally) cometh | PH Fleet

[bcr5784]

Helicopter123 said:

This, a lovely 6 cylinder option and a manual gearbox would surely appeal to Alpine buyers even if no real performance gain?

Unfortunately (for me) until they get rid of that unresponsive dip in the torque curve in the 2500-4000 common to all Cayster and get some sensible gear ratios it wouldn't appeal to me. That's why I sold my 981S to get an Alpine.

[bcr5784]

DoubleD said:

I would have thought that fun was the most important thing rather than performance.

It is - and that's what an A110 has in spades.

[DoubleD]

bcr5784 said:

DoubleD said:

I would have thought that fun was the most important thing rather than performance.

It is - and that's what an A110 has in spades.

Yep, nothing wrong with a bit more though.

[Venisonpie]

bcr5784 said:

Unfortunately (for me) until they get rid of that unresponsive dip in the torque curve in the 2500-4000 common to all Cayster and get some sensible gear ratios it wouldn't appeal to me. That's why I sold my 981S to get an Alpine.

This sums it up. I came out of a 981 into an Elise and it's another league of fun on the road.

For all of the positives of the 981 it's a pretty inert thing to drive, the gear ratios make a manual box pointless and it's just got so much tyre for road use. Whilst Porsche continue on their constant iterating of products Alpine came along and changed the game with a light car that makes the competition look lardy.

The return of the flat 6 to the 718 GTS is great but all the other problems remain - the pork fanboys are polishing their rockets over it but it is likely to still be a hugely frustrating road car; too heavy, too big, not enough feel and the aforementioned gearing. And tyre roar. And fiddly switchgear.

[bcr5784]

DoubleD said:

Yep, nothing wrong with a bit more though.

True.but I'd take a helluva lot of convincing that a F6 with the power characteristics of the Porsche mated with Porsche manual gearbox ratios would add rather than SERIOUSLY detract from the fun. There is too much NA good/turbo bad manual good/auto bad nonsense talked. It's the sum total of engine and gearbox characteristics and how much the total gives to driving pleasure that counts. And In the A110 case how much any weight or configuration issue add or detract from driving fun.

Edited by bcr5784 on Saturday 25th January 20:58

[martin mrt]

Yeah this is me, buy something and always looking for something else.

Only car that never happened with was my E90 M3

[Prestonese]

bcr5784 said:

Helicopter123 said:

This, a lovely 6 cylinder option and a manual gearbox would surely appeal to Alpine buyers even if no real performance gain?

Unfortunately (for me) until they get rid of that unresponsive dip in the torque curve in the 2500-4000 common to all Cayster and get some sensible gear ratios it wouldn't appeal to me. That's why I sold my 981S to get an Alpine.

Surely you didn't switch just because of the torque dip!

[Prestonese]

DoubleD said:

Helicopter123 said:

nickfrog said:

Helicopter123 said:

Wish they had put a better engine in the S and a manual gearbox. That would have been near perfect.

I thought you said it was a hot hatch in a frock?

Would a different engine and box change that?

A nice 6 cylinder and a manual box would certainly lift the car from its more humble origins, wouldn’t it?

Well it would certainly make it heavier.

I think the a 718 in 4cyl is heavier than the 981. Don't know what Porsche were doing there. Allegedly, the additional weight comes from the bag of spanners they installed in the 718.....

[bcr5784]

Prestonese said:

Surely you didn't switch just because of the torque dip!

No, it was mainly the inert nature of the chassis - but the torque dip (even with PDK gearing) contributes to that. Much as I dislike the 718 engine, the extra torque makes the chassis significantly more playful at half reasonable speeds. The torque dip is a significant factor in why I much prefer the Evora engine to the Porsche one.

[100 OCTANE]

It appears to me that the main gripe here is that the Alpine doesn’t have a manual gearbox and this takes away the fun. Driving a big heavy performance car with a manual gearbox at speed isn’t fun for me, it’s inefficient and irritating. Let’s face it, to changing up or down smoothly at speed is difficult, especially down under hard braking, the engine speed needs to matched the gear speed, the only way to do this, is operating three pedals with two feet, and at same time letting go of the steering wheel to change gear, whilst wrestling with the heavy weight transfer when braking and cornering, surely this should be breaking some sort of health and safety rules , it’s madness, not my idea of fun, it would wind me up driving such an inefficient car. Thank goodness Alpine chose not to follow this madness, it’s a very well thought out car.

PS looking forward to talking my S around Goodwood.

Edited by 100 OCTANE on Sunday 26th January 15:24

[cerb4.5lee]

100 OCTANE said:

It appears to me that the main gripe here is that the Alpine doesn’t have a manual gearbox and this takes away the fun. Driving a big heavy performance car with a manual gearbox at speed isn’t fun for me, it’s inefficient and irritating. Let’s face it, to changing up or down smoothly at speed is difficult, especially down under hard braking, the engine speed needs to matched the gear speed, the only way to do this, is operating three pedals with two feet, and at same time letting go of the steering wheel to change gear, whilst wrestling with the heavy weight transfer when braking and cornering, surely this should be breaking some sort of health and safety rules , it’s madness, not my idea of fun, it would wind me up driving such an inefficient car. Thank goodness Alpine chose not to follow this madness, it’s a very well thought out car.

You are old so it is inevitable that you will prefer 2 pedals and paddles...leave the driving to us youngsters!

[100 OCTANE]

cerb4.5lee said:

100 OCTANE said:

It appears to me that the main gripe here is that the Alpine doesn’t have a manual gearbox and this takes away the fun. Driving a big heavy performance car with a manual gearbox at speed isn’t fun for me, it’s inefficient and irritating. Let’s face it, to changing up or down smoothly at speed is difficult, especially down under hard braking, the engine speed needs to matched the gear speed, the only way to do this, is operating three pedals with two feet, and at same time letting go of the steering wheel to change gear, whilst wrestling with the heavy weight transfer when braking and cornering, surely this should be breaking some sort of health and safety rules , it’s madness, not my idea of fun, it would wind me up driving such an inefficient car. Thank goodness Alpine chose not to follow this madness, it’s a very well thought out car.

You are old so it is inevitable that you will prefer 2 pedals and paddles...leave the driving to us youngsters!

Yes I’m old and retired, but I use to be a HGV class one driver, and I can still pull 140 MPH at Goodwood in manual so I could teach a young whippersnapper like you how to drive properly

Edited by 100 OCTANE on Sunday 26th January 16:45

[cerb4.5lee]

100 OCTANE said:

cerb4.5lee said:

100 OCTANE said:

It appears to me that the main gripe here is that the Alpine doesn’t have a manual gearbox and this takes away the fun. Driving a big heavy performance car with a manual gearbox at speed isn’t fun for me, it’s inefficient and irritating. Let’s face it, to changing up or down smoothly at speed is difficult, especially down under hard braking, the engine speed needs to matched the gear speed, the only way to do this, is operating three pedals with two feet, and at same time letting go of the steering wheel to change gear, whilst wrestling with the heavy weight transfer when braking and cornering, surely this should be breaking some sort of health and safety rules , it’s madness, not my idea of fun, it would wind me up driving such an inefficient car. Thank goodness Alpine chose not to follow this madness, it’s a very well thought out car.

You are old so it is inevitable that you will prefer 2 pedals and paddles...leave the driving to us youngsters!

Yes I’m old and retired, but I use to a HGV class one driver, and I can still pull 140 MPH at Goodwood in manual so I could teach a young whippersnapper like you how to drive properly

[DoubleD]

It is a shame that Alpine haven't bothered to offer the option of a manual, but there you go.

[100 OCTANE]

DoubleD said:

It is a shame that Alpine haven't bothered to offer the option of a manual, but there you go.

It would be impossible to offer a manual option for the Alpine, as it would involved making to many changes. Their ethos was to produce a modern form of the old A110 which they’ve done admirably.

Edited by 100 OCTANE on Sunday 26th January 16:35

[DoubleD]

100 OCTANE said:

DoubleD said:

It is a shame that Alpine haven't bothered to offer the option of a manual, but there you go.

It would be impossible to offer a manual option for the Alpine, as it would involved making to many changes. Their ethos was to produce a modern form of the old A110 which they’ve done admirably.

Edited by 100 OCTANE on Sunday 26th January 16:35

Well for me, they could have done it better.

[springfan62]

DoubleD said:

Well for me, they could have done it better.

They only had the budget to develop one or the other and they chose (wisely I think) to develop the Auto as thats the way the market has gone whether you like it or not. A manual would have been nice but I don't think that many actually buy them.

[100 OCTANE]

DoubleD said:

100 OCTANE said:

DoubleD said:

It is a shame that Alpine haven't bothered to offer the option of a manual, but there you go.

It would be impossible to offer a manual option for the Alpine, as it would involved making to many changes. Their ethos was to produce a modern form of the old A110 which they’ve done admirably.

Edited by 100 OCTANE on Sunday 26th January 16:35

Well for me, they could have done it better.

No, I think what you’re saying is it doesn’t suits you, which is fair enough

[DoubleD]

100 OCTANE said:

DoubleD said:

100 OCTANE said:

DoubleD said:

It is a shame that Alpine haven't bothered to offer the option of a manual, but there you go.

It would be impossible to offer a manual option for the Alpine, as it would involved making to many changes. Their ethos was to produce a modern form of the old A110 which they’ve done admirably.

Edited by 100 OCTANE on Sunday 26th January 16:35

Well for me, they could have done it better.

No, I think what you’re saying is it doesn’t suits you, which is fair enough

No, I think they could have done a better job.

[bcr5784]

DoubleD said:

No, I think they could have done a better job.

Given that the budget was limited and had to be carefully considered what, as a designer, would you spend your budget on? A manual gearbox which would be quite expensive and constraining to engineer PROPERLY, but which hardly anyone would buy, or spend it on a bespoke set of gear ratios for the automatic box which would be the choice of the great majority of buyers? From a hard headed perspective it's a no-brainer.