Re : The Alpine A110 (finally) cometh | PH Fleet
Discussion
Have you got anything to add of value on the Alpine, or do you require further support? bcr5784 said:
To answer the question "is it twice as good as an MX5". Of course it isn't - any more that a Mclaren of Ferrari is 4 times as good as an Alpine. It's a case of diminishing returns. But is an Alpine Is significantly better than an MX5 - yes it is in areas that will be important to many. How much you are prepared to pay for the chassis, the refinement or the performance of the Alpine is very much a personal choice.
Thank you for the polite response. I feel the need to try an Alpine to judge for myself. Its an intriguing car because - like the 4c, which I was certain I would like but ended finding too compromised - it's going about things a different way. Essentially spending all its money on a chassis and bolting on (very good) Renault parts. I'm not bothered by switchgear or interior aesthetics, so it should be right up my street. Miserablegit said:
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.evo.co.uk/mazda...
“ On the Spanish roads of our test route the metal roof seemed to add some structural rigidity to the MX-5’s body - the constant tremors that often pass through the roadster are muted here. Despite a few rough sections the roads weren’t as demanding as those in the UK in terms of surface changes and cambers though, and we’ll have to wait to be confident enough to claim the RF is appreciably stiffer. ”
Other sources are available
My second ND - both convertible - has a strut brace, which seems to have improved things massively. The RF was appreciably more rigid but the added weight and slightly odd proportions put me off. I think a bit of flexibility in the chassis is part of the charm but appreciate its probably an area where the Alpine is streets ahead.“ On the Spanish roads of our test route the metal roof seemed to add some structural rigidity to the MX-5’s body - the constant tremors that often pass through the roadster are muted here. Despite a few rough sections the roads weren’t as demanding as those in the UK in terms of surface changes and cambers though, and we’ll have to wait to be confident enough to claim the RF is appreciably stiffer. ”
Other sources are available
Anyway I'm off to take Matt Willis advice. Top down, heated seats on and thrash to LIDL and back, oh the glamour!
Hello. So this thread has been really interesting for me, I have always read Pistonheads but never contributed BTL. Apologies if I started the thread down a blind alley with the MX5 comparison. I didn't realise it would stir things up.
Having read everyone's comments on the Alpine and watched a couple of recommended YouTube reviews, I am now very keen to try one. It seems like it may do everything I like about the ND but quicker, with more body control and in a more practical package - with the exception of doing any work on the engine, 5 mins to open the "bonnet" seems insane!
Assuming it is tangible better, whether it's worth the extra money is going to be subjective. I suspect, for me, it won't be but that is from the basis of only being able to afford - and garage - one car and it being right at the very top of my budget.
The discussion also made me think about the ND more critically and the difficulty of being dispassionate about a car you own - it will be interested to see how Dan manages with this in his Alpine updates. I went out for a drive on my favourite local road late yesterday afternoon. Top down, seats hot feeling very orange and conspicuous! I won't bore you with the details but I did notice a couple of things for the first time:
Gearing - just like the Alpine it's 2 changes to 60 and third tops out at 80. You do a lot of 3 to 6 shift changes! The box is a delight though.
The lack of any character to the engine means that even top down the engine doesn't tell you that the limiter is close. So you hit it mid overtake if the other car accelerates on a straight. This wasn't a problem in the ND1 as it was so reluctant to rev!
I didn't notice the lack of chassis stiffness, either wasn't going hard enough or I just haven't experienced a really stiff car. Can't report any rattles. I did notice that it gets unsettled by off camber tight bends - simultaneously ducking and diving in and skittering wide - all correctable by easing off but it decreases confidence a little.
I'm still weighing up whether to go for the BBR 220 kit or not. On balance, I can live with the lack of power but might need to do something about the lack of noise!
Finally, I also realised that - for me - I am willing to put up with a slight loss of dynamic ability for having an open topped car. Its not the pose factor - it ruins your hair
- but my job keeps me indoors all day everyday and it makes me happy being outside even on a mundane drive.
Sorry for the long post and thanks for the enlightening debate.
Having read everyone's comments on the Alpine and watched a couple of recommended YouTube reviews, I am now very keen to try one. It seems like it may do everything I like about the ND but quicker, with more body control and in a more practical package - with the exception of doing any work on the engine, 5 mins to open the "bonnet" seems insane!
Assuming it is tangible better, whether it's worth the extra money is going to be subjective. I suspect, for me, it won't be but that is from the basis of only being able to afford - and garage - one car and it being right at the very top of my budget.
The discussion also made me think about the ND more critically and the difficulty of being dispassionate about a car you own - it will be interested to see how Dan manages with this in his Alpine updates. I went out for a drive on my favourite local road late yesterday afternoon. Top down, seats hot feeling very orange and conspicuous! I won't bore you with the details but I did notice a couple of things for the first time:
Gearing - just like the Alpine it's 2 changes to 60 and third tops out at 80. You do a lot of 3 to 6 shift changes! The box is a delight though.
The lack of any character to the engine means that even top down the engine doesn't tell you that the limiter is close. So you hit it mid overtake if the other car accelerates on a straight. This wasn't a problem in the ND1 as it was so reluctant to rev!
I didn't notice the lack of chassis stiffness, either wasn't going hard enough or I just haven't experienced a really stiff car. Can't report any rattles. I did notice that it gets unsettled by off camber tight bends - simultaneously ducking and diving in and skittering wide - all correctable by easing off but it decreases confidence a little.
I'm still weighing up whether to go for the BBR 220 kit or not. On balance, I can live with the lack of power but might need to do something about the lack of noise!
Finally, I also realised that - for me - I am willing to put up with a slight loss of dynamic ability for having an open topped car. Its not the pose factor - it ruins your hair
- but my job keeps me indoors all day everyday and it makes me happy being outside even on a mundane drive.Sorry for the long post and thanks for the enlightening debate.
yonex said:
£50k, this seems to be a sticking point?
What would a Cayman RS lightweight cost, and how quickly couldn’t you buy one?
A lot of this is pure snobbery. How much weight can realistically be removed from a modern Cayster, these appear to be the only real alternative?
Hi YonexWhat would a Cayman RS lightweight cost, and how quickly couldn’t you buy one?
A lot of this is pure snobbery. How much weight can realistically be removed from a modern Cayster, these appear to be the only real alternative?
I think the problem here is that for you - and other enthusiasts - the fact that this car is a ground up aluminium chassis car makes it worth £50k. I respect that opinion but I suspect, from the comments on here, that it might be quite niche. I'm thinking 99% of all drivers and probably 90 to 95% of all Phers aren't going to notice the improvement that the alu chassis makes, hence aren't getting why it's £50k.
I think if they had built a ground up steel chassis car and saved weight with a manual and put that engine in it and charged under £40k they would have sold 10 times the volume.
For purists that would be an unacceptable compromise, which I understand.
I suspect there are a lot of others who love the look of the Alpine, love the engine and wish they had the option to buy it at £40k hence the frustration.
Cheers
Butter Face said:
All for the same reason they could have made it a FWD 5 door hatchback for £30k. They could have called that something snazzy like a ‘Megane’ or something.
But I don't want 5 seats or 5 doors. I want a rear drive, lightweight sports car and the options under £40k these days are unbelievably limited compared to say under £25k in 2005.CABC said:
no, i don't agree, though i see your argument.
the true sports car market is really, really small. let's agree on that....or not?
MX5s are also easy driving convertibles. there's a decent market for that, plus they 'drive really well' to average punter.
Porsches are mostly bought for the badge and non-enthusiast. i know owners who are racers/enthusiasts, but they are the minority.
GT86 has focus on driving, but more than just its crappy engine, it doesn't cover enough bases for most drivers. no badge, no practicality, no 0-60.
Lotus don't sell any.
etc
If Alpine had made a steel car for 40k i doubt it would have sold either, as 40k is too much just for looks (and no badge). 4C failed because it was too expensive compared to a Mazda for non-enthusiasts and not good enough for enthusiasts. Germans do a great job of straddling several buying segments and thus selling good numbers. the 'purists' segment is just too small.
the people taking a pop at it on PH are just not into driving that much i suggest. It's fine if it's not a car for them, but some on here are actively taking time to knock it. having an opinion is fine, but some do protest too much...
Am I really the only person looking for a light, rear drive sporty car under £40k? Dad to see how few options there are.the true sports car market is really, really small. let's agree on that....or not?
MX5s are also easy driving convertibles. there's a decent market for that, plus they 'drive really well' to average punter.
Porsches are mostly bought for the badge and non-enthusiast. i know owners who are racers/enthusiasts, but they are the minority.
GT86 has focus on driving, but more than just its crappy engine, it doesn't cover enough bases for most drivers. no badge, no practicality, no 0-60.
Lotus don't sell any.
etc
If Alpine had made a steel car for 40k i doubt it would have sold either, as 40k is too much just for looks (and no badge). 4C failed because it was too expensive compared to a Mazda for non-enthusiasts and not good enough for enthusiasts. Germans do a great job of straddling several buying segments and thus selling good numbers. the 'purists' segment is just too small.
the people taking a pop at it on PH are just not into driving that much i suggest. It's fine if it's not a car for them, but some on here are actively taking time to knock it. having an opinion is fine, but some do protest too much...
In 2005 my budget was £25k - about similar with inflation - and my options were 2 Mazda's, 2 Toyota's, a Lotus, a Vauxhall that was a Lotus, an MG, a Honda, Base BMW Z4 and various lightweight options. From memory the 2.7 Boxster was in budget but not with even basic options ticked.
yonex said:
A Boxster is a bloated GT in comparison, the point, which is lost on you is that the Alpine rides brilliantly. Unlike a Corvette, and modern Porsche on sports suspension. Shame some are obsessed with badges and harp on about an entry level car as If it’s a GT3 
Mx5 and Boxster ‘proper modern sports cars’
I know this will annoy you but "proper sports cars" to me should be open topped. Anything from an MGB to a Griffith. Mx5 and Boxster ‘proper modern sports cars’
yonex said:
I don’t know who’s serious and who’s not anymore?
350z, S2000, MX5, Megane, RCZ.
Its you, only you are serious. Thou art all seeing and all knowing.350z, S2000, MX5, Megane, RCZ.
Take a deep breath and repeat after me the Alpine is in a class of one, no other car is comparable. Now find a mirror and have a conversation with it. There...that's better isn't it? You've found a forum where nobody disagrees with you.x
yonex said:
Lol, it’s not me moaning about the cost, yet understanding the cost of manufacture. It’s not me comparing various vanilla cars, for no reason. It’s a thread about the Alpine, yet it’s eaten alive by these muppets. Even you with the hairdressers car of choice admit you’ve got a sneaky test drive, maybe.
Got to love PH
You know how annoying you find people who don't understand the engineering behind the Alpine? That's how annoying I find the "hairdressers car" comment.Got to love PH
Julian Thompson said:
Love the Alpine.
The only thing about it, and the reason I haven’t bought one yet is that, for me, the car has a strange range of talents and doesn’t do any one thing so well that it is “the best” at it, and so I worry that it’ll not be used. Maybe that means it’s the best all rounder? I’m sure I’ll end up with one! For now:
You are better in an basic Elise for a B road thrash - for the thirty seconds in a one hour drive you find “that” opportunity.
You are better in a fast Elise on a track day. But you’re better driving home in the Alpine.
You can’t go to Le Mans in an Alpine because your tent won’t fit. So you need to dig the boxster out with its cavernous front boot. But that’s once a year.
You can’t enjoy a sunny Sunday morning cruise with the top off so you’re better off in an MX5. That’s is true without possibility of balance.
You can’t take the kids to the pub for lunch so you need a 997. That is also true.
You can’t perfect your irrational and yet strangely compelling love for the art of changing gear yourself or listening to a musical engine, and so you’ll want to dig the 360 out to hear the H gate clacking around and the V8 howl (ok that’s pushing it at Alpine money but still just about similar if you use man maths.
) The Ferrari is a daft point made for fun but again, the manual thing/engine configuration is an issue if it’s an issue for you.
You can’t take it to work because someone will scratch it - same as all the nice cars.
You can’t take it to Sainsbury’s because someone will open their door on it and ruin it - same as all the nice cars.
So, I have decided that the perfect job for the Alpine is a weekend away in changeable weather, in hotels, with your significant other, taking in some cruising up the motorway and some excellent twisty roads and an afternoon at a track day on the way home.
Really enjoyed this post. You could definitely do a camping trip in it though...we once did a 3 month European camping trip in a MK3 MR2!The only thing about it, and the reason I haven’t bought one yet is that, for me, the car has a strange range of talents and doesn’t do any one thing so well that it is “the best” at it, and so I worry that it’ll not be used. Maybe that means it’s the best all rounder? I’m sure I’ll end up with one! For now:
You are better in an basic Elise for a B road thrash - for the thirty seconds in a one hour drive you find “that” opportunity.
You are better in a fast Elise on a track day. But you’re better driving home in the Alpine.
You can’t go to Le Mans in an Alpine because your tent won’t fit. So you need to dig the boxster out with its cavernous front boot. But that’s once a year.
You can’t enjoy a sunny Sunday morning cruise with the top off so you’re better off in an MX5. That’s is true without possibility of balance.
You can’t take the kids to the pub for lunch so you need a 997. That is also true.
You can’t perfect your irrational and yet strangely compelling love for the art of changing gear yourself or listening to a musical engine, and so you’ll want to dig the 360 out to hear the H gate clacking around and the V8 howl (ok that’s pushing it at Alpine money but still just about similar if you use man maths.
) The Ferrari is a daft point made for fun but again, the manual thing/engine configuration is an issue if it’s an issue for you.You can’t take it to work because someone will scratch it - same as all the nice cars.
You can’t take it to Sainsbury’s because someone will open their door on it and ruin it - same as all the nice cars.
So, I have decided that the perfect job for the Alpine is a weekend away in changeable weather, in hotels, with your significant other, taking in some cruising up the motorway and some excellent twisty roads and an afternoon at a track day on the way home.
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