Re : Ghosn savages accusers in first public address

[sharkattack]

Just do some Googling and read a quick horror story about the Japanese 'hostage justice' system. It's a terrifying thing to be caught up in.

Given he has the money and the connections to make a run for it, I'm not surprised he did. Most normal people don't have the option.

[fido]

sharkattack said:

Just do some Googling and read a quick horror story about the Japanese 'hostage justice' system. It's a terrifying thing to be caught up in.

Given he has the money and the connections to make a run for it, I'm not surprised he did. Most normal people don't have the option.

Indeed. It does sounds a bit 'Man in the High Castle'. After the watching his press conference I'm in no doubt this is a stitch up. A guilty person does not openly appear in public like that and present their case.

[V8 FOU]

Reckon he should have a job awaiting him in the Trump administration.

[sharkattack]

fido said:

A guilty person does not openly appear in public like that and present their case.

Ted Bundy being a notable exception!

But seriously, there are much better articles about Carlos Ghosn on the Economist for example, and hundred of articles about hostage justice and the 99% conviction rate. Once you're arrested in Japan you're confessing to something whether you like it or not.

It's good to see the international spotlight turning on it, which is exactly what Japan have been trying to avoid.

[dvs_dave]

emperorburger said:

LuS1fer said:

emperorburger said:

On the fiddle.

Quite evidently a bass-less case.

It's clear he pulled some strings to get out of Japan.

He’s certainly blowing his own trumpet and harping on about it now.

[Stu-wookie-pagey]

dvs_dave said:

emperorburger said:

LuS1fer said:

emperorburger said:

On the fiddle.

Quite evidently a bass-less case.

It's clear he pulled some strings to get out of Japan.

He’s certainly blowing his own trumpet and harping on about it now.

Some has clearly Orchestrated that escape!

[dvs_dave]

Stu-wookie-pagey said:

dvs_dave said:

emperorburger said:

LuS1fer said:

emperorburger said:

On the fiddle.

Quite evidently a bass-less case.

It's clear he pulled some strings to get out of Japan.

He’s certainly blowing his own trumpet and harping on about it now.

Someone has clearly Orchestrated that escape!

Yes, they banded together for well conducted performance and they didn’t miss a beat.

[wisbech]

Worked in Japan for two years. Complaining about the Japanese system is a bit like an immigrant here complaining that honour killings are fine back home, so what’s the problem in fleeing to escape prosecution. Different countries have different laws and, just as importantly, different ‘unwritten rules’ that you break at your peril.

[Caterhamfan]

simon-tigjs said:

Its difficult to determine truths and lies at this point as there are always 2 sides to a story,

Doesn't the saying go "There are three sides to every story: my side, your side, and the truth."??!!

[Exige77]

PZR said:

DeltonaS said:

On the other hand you have the Japanese culture. Incomprehensible to Westerners. Perhaps he became too powerful, a danger to Japanese interests due to the merger with Renault. As he explained himself.

Japanese culture is incomprehensible in the way they undergo life and their fate.

Is that your own view, formed through personal experience? What's your experience of Japanese culture, Japanese people and Japanese life?

It’s the angry Nissan guy again ?

Knowing the ins and outs of the draconian Japanese legal system doesn’t make it right.

You’ve been asked before, if you you have all the answers then tell us the story.

[irocfan]

jontbone said:

emperorburger said:

LuS1fer said:

emperorburger said:

On the fiddle.

Quite evidently a bass-less case.

It's clear he pulled some strings to get out of Japan.

And then went on stage and ‘got the violin out’

well he's certainly not in a rush to exit stage left

[PZR]

Exige77 said:

PZR said:

DeltonaS said:

On the other hand you have the Japanese culture. Incomprehensible to Westerners. Perhaps he became too powerful, a danger to Japanese interests due to the merger with Renault. As he explained himself.

Japanese culture is incomprehensible in the way they undergo life and their fate.

Is that your own view, formed through personal experience? What's your experience of Japanese culture, Japanese people and Japanese life?

It’s the angry Nissan guy again ?

Knowing the ins and outs of the draconian Japanese legal system doesn’t make it right.

You’ve been asked before, if you you have all the answers then tell us the story.

I think you should stand by for the Kelly case to come to court.

It will - like it or not - be a de facto Ghosn trial.

[Exige77]

PZR said:

Exige77 said:

PZR said:

DeltonaS said:

On the other hand you have the Japanese culture. Incomprehensible to Westerners. Perhaps he became too powerful, a danger to Japanese interests due to the merger with Renault. As he explained himself.

Japanese culture is incomprehensible in the way they undergo life and their fate.

Is that your own view, formed through personal experience? What's your experience of Japanese culture, Japanese people and Japanese life?

It’s the angry Nissan guy again ?

Knowing the ins and outs of the draconian Japanese legal system doesn’t make it right.

You’ve been asked before, if you you have all the answers then tell us the story.

I think you should stand by for the Kelly case to come to court.

It will - like it or not - be a de facto Ghosn trial.

So why not tell us what you know instead of just posturing ?

If you have some insight then share it.

I’m sure any info on a British car chat forum isn’t going to prejudice the trial ? The verdict is probably already decided.

[PZR]

Exige77 said:

So why not tell us what you know instead of just posturing ?

If you have some insight then share it.

I’m sure any info on a British car chat forum isn’t going to prejudice the trial ? The verdict is probably already decided.

"Posturing"?

I've made my position clear on the other thread. You know, the one where you called a couple of people objecting to open bigotry "snoflakes".

I think you've made your position clear too.

[Fast Bug]

PZR said:

"Posturing"?

I've made my position clear on the other thread. You know, the one where you called a couple of people objecting to open bigotry "snoflakes".

I think you've made your position clear too.

The only thing you've made clear is that you don't like a man you've never met?

[Exige77]

PZR said:

Exige77 said:

So why not tell us what you know instead of just posturing ?

If you have some insight then share it.

I’m sure any info on a British car chat forum isn’t going to prejudice the trial ? The verdict is probably already decided.

"Posturing"?

I've made my position clear on the other thread. You know, the one where you called a couple of people objecting to open bigotry "snoflakes".

I think you've made your position clear too.

Spill the beans then ? Tell us what you know that makes his treatment OK ?

You clearly don’t like what he’s done to your beloved company but it’s a business thing. This has clearly become political thing now.

We are not looking at mass murder here ?

Snowflakes don’t like being recognised as a snowflake. To repeat, I’m happy to be referred to as a Brit, a Pom, Roast beef. Take your pick.

[PZR]

Fast Bug said:

The only thing you've made clear is that you don't like a man you've never met?

I have met Ghosn.

[Wills2]

He's done the right thing clearly he was held and treated under conditions well below the standards you'd expect in a modern democracy, he was treated like that in no small measure due him being a foreigner, lots of bigotry on show from the Japanese system towards him.

99.4% conviction rate? Probably only bettered by the Spanish inquisition.

[Fast Bug]

PZR said:

Fast Bug said:

The only thing you've made clear is that you don't like a man you've never met?

I have met Ghosn.

You weren't very clear on the other thread

PZR said:

I think not my cup of tea covers it. Could say the same about some of the people who became his acolytes in Japan.

I'd like to see car guys heading car companies, but the world's not like that any more is it?

What's your agenda with him?

I know he's made some fairly savage cost savings with manufacturers I've been close to, but ultimately they have saved the companies in question which has kept many more people in employment

[PZR]

Exige77 said:

Spill the beans then ? Tell us what you know that makes his treatment OK ?

You clearly don’t like what he’s done to your beloved company but it’s a business thing. This has clearly become political thing now.

We are not looking at mass murder here ?

Snowflakes don’t like being recognised as a snowflake. To repeat, I’m happy to be referred to as a Brit, a Pom, Roast beef. Take your pick.

Nothing Ghosn has done - or anything anybody else has done - makes bad treatment and 'Hostage Justice' OK. I've never said it does. There are plenty of people in Japan who are not happy with the 'Hostage Justice' tactics too.

Since when was Nissan my "beloved company"? What Ghosn, his family and others accused have ('allegedly') done is not just "a business thing". Ghosn and his PR team are pointing to factional machinations within the Renault-Nissan-Mitsubishi Alliance - whilst also playing the race card - as the reason for his arrest, but the prosecutors are pursuing Ghosn, Kelly and Nissan themselves (as had the US Securities and Exchange Commission) for financial irregularities.

About your "snowflake" comments: This is not about what you're happy for people to call you. It's about what other people will accept being called. Whether you accept it or not, the terms 'Jap' and 'Nip' are usually seen as being offensive to Japanese people by Japanese people. If you want to engage with me in this thread or the other one, I won't sit on my hands whilst you call objectors to such slurs "snowflakes".