Subaru vs bike head on collision.
Discussion
darren f said:
From the footage and Google Maps I am a bit surprised the corner is not signed, or has ‘slow’ road paint or chevrons. Or is it comparatively not that severe for the Peaks (otherwise it’d be wall-to-wall signage up there I’d have thought)?
Plenty of clues. The route of the wall is visible through the fields.
Pica-Pica said:
darren f said:
From the footage and Google Maps I am a bit surprised the corner is not signed, or has ‘slow’ road paint or chevrons. Or is it comparatively not that severe for the Peaks (otherwise it’d be wall-to-wall signage up there I’d have thought)?
Plenty of clues. The route of the wall is visible through the fields.It would be a lot of signs and paint to cover all the country roads with these....it is hardly a dangerous corner is it.
Can I ask again, what stability kit/systems (obviously ABS) is fitted to this car ?
DJP said:
Horrible incident but if that biker had been in a car they'd probably both be dead.
Being flung over the top of the car is probably what saved him/them.
Unlikely, according to the on-screen info the Subaru had reduced speed to about 30mph before impact, and a car coming the other way would have been able to decelerate faster than the bike could manage, especially as the bike was on only 1 wheel most of the time.Being flung over the top of the car is probably what saved him/them.
Leptons said:
Dont like rolls said:
Can I ask again, what stability kit/systems (obviously ABS) is fitted to this car ?
It has DCCD for a start. timrud said:
compounded by a poor handling car.
You must be posting that to get a reaction. I’m learning a lot today...Edited by Jim on the hill on Sunday 12th January 14:43
Leptons said:
Has DCCD
Had to look that up 
....thanks.https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
"The DCCD Imprezas I've driven (older STi-RAs) were far more neutral and balanced with it open than any 50:50 Subaru I've driven. No understeer, just pin-sharp turn-in and a bit of power oversteer if you wanted it."...................Hardly pin-sharp turn in then ?
Dont like rolls said:
Hardly pin-sharp turn in then ?
I'm unsure what you don't understand, the speed was relatively low, the similar (arguably inferior) car behind, made the turn without issue.The issue was the driver didn't turn the steering wheel - the only cars that can deal with this are ones with Autopilot !
V8RX7 said:
I'm unsure what you don't understand, the speed was relatively low, the similar (arguably inferior) car behind, made the turn without issue.
The issue was the driver didn't turn the steering wheel - the only cars that can deal with this are ones with Autopilot !
I understand that the driver was the reason for this crash, I understand that more now.The issue was the driver didn't turn the steering wheel - the only cars that can deal with this are ones with Autopilot !
I know this corner well and this video has perplexed me somewhat. The driver doesn’t appear to be doing a speed that would cause any issues getting around the corner, he just appears to drift out, road surface looks ok. I wonder if mobile phone was involved? Or just lack of concentration, changing radio station, eating a sweet etc, Very unfortunate for the motorcyclist, I assume though for dangerous driving that there must be some factor other than speed involved as in this case I can’t see how the speed itself could be deemed dangerous!
Dont like rolls said:
Had to look that up ....thanks.
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
"The DCCD Imprezas I've driven (older STi-RAs) were far more neutral and balanced with it open than any 50:50 Subaru I've driven. No understeer, just pin-sharp turn-in and a bit of power oversteer if you wanted it."...................Hardly pin-sharp turn in then ?
Stop digging, the car was not the factor in this event.....thanks.https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
"The DCCD Imprezas I've driven (older STi-RAs) were far more neutral and balanced with it open than any 50:50 Subaru I've driven. No understeer, just pin-sharp turn-in and a bit of power oversteer if you wanted it."...................Hardly pin-sharp turn in then ?
I know these cars and how they handle probably better than most people on this forum, there will certainly only be a small number with the time and experience of these cars similar to myself.
The DCCD-A system is just an electronically controlled variable rate centre diff unit, the WR1 was the first UK car to have this installed as previous versions (DCCD) wouldn't work with ABS. The previous generation JDM cars ran with a DCCD which had no automatic control of the lock rate and the car had no ABS. The DCCD-A cars are a very neutral handling car, the DCCD unit allows the centre diff to be open off throttle on corner entry, so you don't get the push of a more locked centre diff in conventional AWD system.
You can manually override the Automatic control and manually set the centre diff lock rate, but even with the diff set to fully locked, you won't suffer from terminal understeer off throttle, you still get adequate slip in the diff unit as all the electromagnet in the diff unit does is increase the clamp load of the LSD plates, it isn't a fully locked diff as you get with other systems.
When the ABS activates with the setting either in auto mode or manual mode, the centre diff opens up and only allows a maximum of 5% lock rate, this allows the sports ABS system to work at maximum effect on each wheel independently. It's a very effective sports ABS system with active brake bias managed via a G sensor, so you get really good braking no matter the road conditions.
Like any car, everything is limited by the grip available from the road/tyre interface, the car in question is one of the best on the road for maximising that, but you can't override the laws of physics, as always you are reliant on the driver not making an error of judgement, which is what happened here with sadly serious consequences.
V8RX7 said:
The issue was the driver didn't turn the steering wheel - the only cars that can deal with this are ones with Autopilot !
I'll ask this again - if it was simply a case of the driver not applying enough lock, what was the clearly audible squealing noise at approx 8-9 seconds in the video?jsf said:
Stop digging, the car was not the factor in this event.
Digging ? Not me for sure. I just asked about the systems on the car to help me understand. The thread I found informed me as I did not recognise the "DCCD" nomenclature.
Muchly defensive or what.
PS> I do not hear the tyres when viewing the rear camera file ....
Edited by Dont like rolls on Sunday 12th January 16:03
Obviously everybody will have a different opinion on this, but this is how it appears to me;
Having watched the video several times, I think the sharpness of the corner surprised him and he jumped on the brakes too hard in reaction to it.
You can hear a squeal as he enters the corner, and I think the combination of turning just as the front wheels initially locked before the ABS kicks in is what causes the car to move across the road.
If you watch the video with the sound up and pause at the first hint of tyre noise, it's before he gets to the corner and at that point he's still within his lane.
I think if he'd just turned the wheel instead of jumping on the brakes the whole thing may not have happened, but obviously that's easy to say in hindsight.
Having watched the video several times, I think the sharpness of the corner surprised him and he jumped on the brakes too hard in reaction to it.
You can hear a squeal as he enters the corner, and I think the combination of turning just as the front wheels initially locked before the ABS kicks in is what causes the car to move across the road.
If you watch the video with the sound up and pause at the first hint of tyre noise, it's before he gets to the corner and at that point he's still within his lane.
I think if he'd just turned the wheel instead of jumping on the brakes the whole thing may not have happened, but obviously that's easy to say in hindsight.
Dont like rolls said:
Pica-Pica said:
darren f said:
From the footage and Google Maps I am a bit surprised the corner is not signed, or has ‘slow’ road paint or chevrons. Or is it comparatively not that severe for the Peaks (otherwise it’d be wall-to-wall signage up there I’d have thought)?
Plenty of clues. The route of the wall is visible through the fields.It would be a lot of signs and paint to cover all the country roads with these....it is hardly a dangerous corner is it.
Can I ask again, what stability kit/systems (obviously ABS) is fitted to this car ?
t box would make that turn. No ‘special’ stability systems needed, just turn the wheel a bit more. Olivera said:
V8RX7 said:
The issue was the driver didn't turn the steering wheel - the only cars that can deal with this are ones with Autopilot !
I'll ask this again - if it was simply a case of the driver not applying enough lock, what was the clearly audible squealing noise at approx 8-9 seconds in the video?However he applies the brakes on the bend so it could well be a bit of tyre squeal - front tyres don't like turning and braking, as those of us who don't have ABS soon learnt.
I was taken around Curborough by a guy in a P1 - who couldn't drive, I was amazed at the liberties the car let him take.
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