Subaru vs bike head on collision.

[Gad-Westy]

NickGRhodes said:

Gad-Westy said:

Horrible event to have happened and hope the biker makes a speedy recovery.

Like others on here, 10PS's story had a big impact on me and how I felt and approached road driving. among many other aspects of that case, one of the things that struck me about 10PS's incident were witness statements from other road users who had been overtaken who had described 10PS as driving like a lunatic or words to that effect.

Also remember a witness statement is most likely going to be from a road user with little knowledge of advanced driving techniques and often incomplete knowledge of the highway code.

This is very nice thread to read on the the consideration of your own driving based on 10PS story - https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...

Thanks. I'll have a read.

[Fastdruid]

Pica-Pica said:

darren f said:

From the footage and Google Maps I am a bit surprised the corner is not signed, or has ‘slow’ road paint or chevrons. Or is it comparatively not that severe for the Peaks (otherwise it’d be wall-to-wall signage up there I’d have thought)?

Plenty of clues. The route of the wall is visible through the fields.

It doesn't follow the road round the bend though.

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@53.3936225,-1.66513...

Although if you *did* assume that the route of the wall followed the road then you would be going plenty slow enough as it makes the corner look much tighter than it actually is.

Ignoring the wall etc there was plenty of notice with the centre line alone that there was a left bend, even from the dash cam (which can make things look quite a bit different to the view the driver would get).

[Dont like rolls]

The drivers head is not positioned at the top center of the windscreen.

[Pica-Pica]

Fastdruid said:

Pica-Pica said:

darren f said:

From the footage and Google Maps I am a bit surprised the corner is not signed, or has ‘slow’ road paint or chevrons. Or is it comparatively not that severe for the Peaks (otherwise it’d be wall-to-wall signage up there I’d have thought)?

Plenty of clues. The route of the wall is visible through the fields.

It doesn't follow the road round the bend though.

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@53.3936225,-1.66513...

Although if you *did* assume that the route of the wall followed the road then you would be going plenty slow enough as it makes the corner look much tighter than it actually is.

Ignoring the wall etc there was plenty of notice with the centre line alone that there was a left bend, even from the dash cam (which can make things look quite a bit different to the view the driver would get).

..but enough clues to suggest an early lift off to check the vanishing point.

[BrassMan]

Dont like rolls said:

ZX10R NIN said:

To be honest most agree that the driver misjudged the corner, it wasn't his speed/car/tyres etc just him not reading the road.

The question for me is, even if he misjudged that (seems simple) corner why did it go so far over and not be easy to pull back ?

(My bet is not looking)

You can hear the tyres skid as he starts to run wide, in the rear view you see the car lurch slightly. He'll have would more lock on as the steering lightened but as the tyres are sliding, it won't have done anything. Unfortunately the car sorts itself out as it's pointing at the biker.

Max Torque said:

we lost the ability to be "better" than ABS in around 2007

I'm surprised that it's that recent.

[Davie]

21st Century Man said:

We can see the bike in the distance (but we know to look for it). I'm wondering if he simply didn't see it (whereas he may have seen a car) and so let the car run wide using all the road rather than yanking it back into lane

My thoughts exactly.

Enters the corner at bit keen, brakes, runs wide and stays out until the impact.

I wonder during that, how much time was spent looking in the rear view mirror to see if matey behind did the same.

You can't see what's coming if you're looking the opposite direction and having a mate following, you're even more inclined to look behind.

Granted, speculation but...

[popeyewhite]

BrassMan said:

You can hear the tyres skid as he starts to run wide, .

No you can't.

[Dont like rolls]

popeyewhite said:

BrassMan said:

You can hear the tyres skid as he starts to run wide, .

No you can't.

And that sound strangely is not on the rear view.

[mercedeslimos]

BrassMan said:

I'm surprised that it's that recent.

I remember my first MK3 Golf with ABS. It was bloody awful compared to the non-ABS equipped ones I'd had. Even I find the MK4 generation ones were average to poor. The first system that I found actually made anyway to help my driving was the ESP version 2 in a Passat of 2006. And that was miles better than the ASR version fitted to the Golf of the same year.

[Driver101]

popeyewhite said:

BrassMan said:

You can hear the tyres skid as he starts to run wide, .

No you can't.

There's higher quality videos on YouTube.

It sounds as if there is a couple of chirps mid corner as the car looks as if it's bouncing a bit. The brakes go on after this.

You can hear the driver gasp mid corner too.

[popeyewhite]

Driver101 said:

popeyewhite said:

BrassMan said:

You can hear the tyres skid as he starts to run wide, .

No you can't.

There's higher quality videos on YouTube.

It sounds as if there is a couple of chirps mid corner as the car looks as if it's bouncing a bit. The brakes go on after this.

You can hear the driver gasp mid corner too.

Perhaps you could link the clip?

[Driver101]

popeyewhite said:

Driver101 said:

popeyewhite said:

BrassMan said:

You can hear the tyres skid as he starts to run wide, .

No you can't.

There's higher quality videos on YouTube.

It sounds as if there is a couple of chirps mid corner as the car looks as if it's bouncing a bit. The brakes go on after this.

You can hear the driver gasp mid corner too.

Perhaps you could link the clip?

Here is one.


https://youtu.be/XUK16hxemKA

[Electro1980]

768 said:

But not because he was going too fast.

So he intentionally went on to the wrong side of the road knowing there was someone coming the other way?

[popeyewhite]

Driver101 said:

popeyewhite said:

Driver101 said:

popeyewhite said:

BrassMan said:

You can hear the tyres skid as he starts to run wide, .

No you can't.

There's higher quality videos on YouTube.

It sounds as if there is a couple of chirps mid corner as the car looks as if it's bouncing a bit. The brakes go on after this.

You can hear the driver gasp mid corner too.

Perhaps you could link the clip?

Here is one.


https://youtu.be/XUK16hxemKA

Thanks. I can't identify any road/car noise on that clip that's not on the first?

[M4CK 1]

Electro1980 said:

Dr Jekyll said:

Electro1980 said:

It’s not for “getting one corner wrong”. It’s for poor driving that resulted in the serious injury of another road user. It was clearly and easily avoidable, but the driver was going too fast for the conditions that put someone in hospital for a long time.

We don't know he was going too fast for the conditions.

Did he make it safely round the corner? No. Therefore he was going too fast. Wether those conditions were caused primarily by the road layout, the car setup, the drivers skill, knowledge or attention is irrelevant. The simple fact is if the driver had been going slower he would be a free man and the biker would have got home unscathed.

The only other option is that the driver intentionally crossed in to the other lane.

All the reasoning going on boils down to two things, firstly one of the above and secondly people trying to show why it will never be them. “Didn’t know the road” and all this talk of how the driver should have done this or that is just people saying “it would never happen to me”. If you drive too fast and without thought of what might be round the corner it doesn’t matter how skilled you are.

I would like to know what speed you think was safe for the corner??? From what I can see he's doing 66 just before the corner and comes out at 55mph, conditions are dry and clear!!

[Captain Smerc]

M4CK 1 said:

Electro1980 said:

Dr Jekyll said:

Electro1980 said:

It’s not for “getting one corner wrong”. It’s for poor driving that resulted in the serious injury of another road user. It was clearly and easily avoidable, but the driver was going too fast for the conditions that put someone in hospital for a long time.

We don't know he was going too fast for the conditions.

Did he make it safely round the corner? No. Therefore he was going too fast. Wether those conditions were caused primarily by the road layout, the car setup, the drivers skill, knowledge or attention is irrelevant. The simple fact is if the driver had been going slower he would be a free man and the biker would have got home unscathed.

The only other option is that the driver intentionally crossed in to the other lane.

All the reasoning going on boils down to two things, firstly one of the above and secondly people trying to show why it will never be them. “Didn’t know the road” and all this talk of how the driver should have done this or that is just people saying “it would never happen to me”. If you drive too fast and without thought of what might be round the corner it doesn’t matter how skilled you are.

I would like to know what speed you think was safe for the corner??? From what I can see he's doing 66 just before the corner and comes out at 55mph, conditions are dry and clear!!

Perhaps if he was going slower he may have stayed on his own side of the road.

[Dont like rolls]

Captain Smerc said:

Perhaps if he was watching the road ahead he may have stayed on his own side of the road.

Possibly fixed that for you.

[M4CK 1]

Captain Smerc said:

M4CK 1 said:

Electro1980 said:

Dr Jekyll said:

Electro1980 said:

It’s not for “getting one corner wrong”. It’s for poor driving that resulted in the serious injury of another road user. It was clearly and easily avoidable, but the driver was going too fast for the conditions that put someone in hospital for a long time.

We don't know he was going too fast for the conditions.

Did he make it safely round the corner? No. Therefore he was going too fast. Wether those conditions were caused primarily by the road layout, the car setup, the drivers skill, knowledge or attention is irrelevant. The simple fact is if the driver had been going slower he would be a free man and the biker would have got home unscathed.

The only other option is that the driver intentionally crossed in to the other lane.

All the reasoning going on boils down to two things, firstly one of the above and secondly people trying to show why it will never be them. “Didn’t know the road” and all this talk of how the driver should have done this or that is just people saying “it would never happen to me”. If you drive too fast and without thought of what might be round the corner it doesn’t matter how skilled you are.

I would like to know what speed you think was safe for the corner??? From what I can see he's doing 66 just before the corner and comes out at 55mph, conditions are dry and clear!!

Perhaps if he was going slower he may have stayed on his own side of the road.

Same question to you?

IMO I would've said 70 mph should've been a safe speed.

[Debaser]

Electro1980 said:

768 said:

But not because he was going too fast.

So he intentionally went on to the wrong side of the road knowing there was someone coming the other way?

I imagine it was unintentional!

[Captain Smerc]

Dont like rolls said:

Captain Smerc said:

Perhaps if he was watching the road ahead he may have stayed on his own side of the road.

Possibly fixed that for you.

Or not.