Subaru vs bike head on collision.
Discussion
M4CK 1 said:
You say you've driven 1/2million km. Sorry that doesn't really ring with me. You could've done all that on a motorway.
I'm not going to start bragging about my driving life I've not even going to calculate how many miles I've done.
I've been driving for 23 years on a mixture of roads.
The car he was travelling in was more than capable of going around the corner in a safe manner at the speed he was travelling, it was his misjudgement that was the issue and when he saw the biker he froze instead of moving back onto the correct lane.
The facts contradict your argument. He crashed. Whether someone else could have taken the same corner at a higher speed is irrelevant. For his driving ability, his car on that day with his level of attention he was going too fast. Speed by itself is irrelevant. Appropriate speed is what matters.I'm not going to start bragging about my driving life I've not even going to calculate how many miles I've done.
I've been driving for 23 years on a mixture of roads.
The car he was travelling in was more than capable of going around the corner in a safe manner at the speed he was travelling, it was his misjudgement that was the issue and when he saw the biker he froze instead of moving back onto the correct lane.
Anyway the safe and appropriate speed when going around a corner is one where you can stop, on your side of the road, within the distance you can see ahead. In general that is much lower than the maximum speed before you lose control (which might apply on the race track). Had the driver been abiding by that golden rule he would have entered the corner at a much lower speed and there would have been no accident.
Esceptico said:
The facts contradict your argument. He crashed. Whether someone else could have taken the same corner at a higher speed is irrelevant. For his driving ability, his car on that day with his level of attention he was going too fast. Speed by itself is irrelevant. Appropriate speed is what matters.
Quite, the problem wasn't that he was going too fast. The problem was that he was going at all.Esceptico said:
M4CK 1 said:
You say you've driven 1/2million km. Sorry that doesn't really ring with me. You could've done all that on a motorway.
I'm not going to start bragging about my driving life I've not even going to calculate how many miles I've done.
I've been driving for 23 years on a mixture of roads.
The car he was travelling in was more than capable of going around the corner in a safe manner at the speed he was travelling, it was his misjudgement that was the issue and when he saw the biker he froze instead of moving back onto the correct lane.
The facts contradict your argument. He crashed. Whether someone else could have taken the same corner at a higher speed is irrelevant. For his driving ability, his car on that day with his level of attention he was going too fast. Speed by itself is irrelevant. Appropriate speed is what matters.I'm not going to start bragging about my driving life I've not even going to calculate how many miles I've done.
I've been driving for 23 years on a mixture of roads.
The car he was travelling in was more than capable of going around the corner in a safe manner at the speed he was travelling, it was his misjudgement that was the issue and when he saw the biker he froze instead of moving back onto the correct lane.
Anyway the safe and appropriate speed when going around a corner is one where you can stop, on your side of the road, within the distance you can see ahead. In general that is much lower than the maximum speed before you lose control (which might apply on the race track). Had the driver been abiding by that golden rule he would have entered the corner at a much lower speed and there would have been no accident.
Does that apply when you're watching your mate behind you whilst going around a bend etc.
Speed might be a variable but with all the above he would've still crashed at 30mph!!
M4CK 1 said:
Does that still apply if you're not concentrating. Does that apply when you might be adjusting your camera in your car.
Does that apply when you're watching your mate behind you whilst going around a bend etc.
Speed might be a variable but with all the above he would've still crashed at 30mph!!
There is no evidence that he was playing with the camera or looking behind him but even if that were the case, then at 30 mph he would almost definitely have been able to save the situation as he would have had much more time to react and at half the speed his stopping distance would have been a quarter of the distance.Does that apply when you're watching your mate behind you whilst going around a bend etc.
Speed might be a variable but with all the above he would've still crashed at 30mph!!
Esceptico said:
M4CK 1 said:
Does that still apply if you're not concentrating. Does that apply when you might be adjusting your camera in your car.
Does that apply when you're watching your mate behind you whilst going around a bend etc.
Speed might be a variable but with all the above he would've still crashed at 30mph!!
There is no evidence that he was playing with the camera or looking behind him but even if that were the case, then at 30 mph he would almost definitely have been able to save the situation as he would have had much more time to react and at half the speed his stopping distance would have been a quarter of the distance.Does that apply when you're watching your mate behind you whilst going around a bend etc.
Speed might be a variable but with all the above he would've still crashed at 30mph!!
His car was more than capable of going around the corner in the conditions. There were other issues which caused the crash. Maybe he was a s
t driver and likes to use the road up like he does on a track. Unfortunately we're not going to know the full story!!
Edited by M4CK 1 on Tuesday 14th January 09:11
M4CK 1 said:
Esceptico said:
M4CK 1 said:
Does that still apply if you're not concentrating. Does that apply when you might be adjusting your camera in your car.
Does that apply when you're watching your mate behind you whilst going around a bend etc.
Speed might be a variable but with all the above he would've still crashed at 30mph!!
There is no evidence that he was playing with the camera or looking behind him but even if that were the case, then at 30 mph he would almost definitely have been able to save the situation as he would have had much more time to react and at half the speed his stopping distance would have been a quarter of the distance.Does that apply when you're watching your mate behind you whilst going around a bend etc.
Speed might be a variable but with all the above he would've still crashed at 30mph!!
His car was more than capable of going around the corner in the conditions. There were other issues which caused the crash. Maybe he was a s
t driver and likes to use the road up like he does on a track. Unfortunately we're not going to know the full story!!
M4CK 1 said:
The point I'm making we don't know what happened in that car. Placing speed as the cause of the accident as being the issue the crash happened is what I'm disagreeing with.
His car was more than capable of going around the corner in the conditions. There were other issues which caused the crash. Maybe he was a st driver and likes to use the road up like he does on a track.
Unfortunately we're not going to know the full story!!
I don't think you know that for sure.His car was more than capable of going around the corner in the conditions. There were other issues which caused the crash. Maybe he was a s
t driver and likes to use the road up like he does on a track. Unfortunately we're not going to know the full story!!
Does anybody know the modifications he made, the tyres, the roll bars etc etc. Add in road surface etc and there are many questions still open.
That said and for what it is worth (not much) IMHO he was not looking/concentrating.
Edited by Dont like rolls on Tuesday 14th January 09:12
Esceptico said:
The more likely conclusion is that he was going too fast and when he tried to turn the car when straight on. It doesn’t matter that a skilled driver could have taken the corner at the same speed or higher (in the same car). He misjudged the corner and once you go across the centre line (at which point the camber goes in the other direction) it is easy to unsettle a car (especially I would imagine one with stiff suspension and very low profile tyres) leading to more understeer. Panic reactions like slamming on the brakes probably made it worse.
Had he slowed down considerably before the corner, even with st driving he would not have ended up on the other side of the road.
^This.Had he slowed down considerably before the corner, even with s
t driving he would not have ended up on the other side of the road. Slow in, fast out is still as relevant today as it was 20, 30, 40+ years ago, despite the perception that its not because of the technology advances in vehicles.
M4CK 1 said:
The point I'm making we don't know what happened in that car. Placing speed as the cause of the accident is what I'm disagreeing with.
His car was more than capable of going around the corner in the conditions. There were other issues which caused the crash. Maybe he was a st driver and likes to use the road up like he does on a track.
Unfortunately we're not going to know the full story!!
Pratt later told police officers he was "driving as if he didn't care for anyone around him."His car was more than capable of going around the corner in the conditions. There were other issues which caused the crash. Maybe he was a s
t driver and likes to use the road up like he does on a track. Unfortunately we're not going to know the full story!!
Edited by M4CK 1 on Tuesday 14th January 09:11
MDMA . said:
M4CK 1 said:
The point I'm making we don't know what happened in that car. Placing speed as the cause of the accident is what I'm disagreeing with.
His car was more than capable of going around the corner in the conditions. There were other issues which caused the crash. Maybe he was a st driver and likes to use the road up like he does on a track.
Unfortunately we're not going to know the full story!!
Pratt later told police officers he was "driving as if he didn't care for anyone around him."His car was more than capable of going around the corner in the conditions. There were other issues which caused the crash. Maybe he was a s
t driver and likes to use the road up like he does on a track. Unfortunately we're not going to know the full story!!
Edited by M4CK 1 on Tuesday 14th January 09:11
I've No sympathy if that's his attitude!!
I hope he's enjoying his prison stay
MDMA . said:
M4CK 1 said:
The point I'm making we don't know what happened in that car. Placing speed as the cause of the accident is what I'm disagreeing with.
His car was more than capable of going around the corner in the conditions. There were other issues which caused the crash. Maybe he was a st driver and likes to use the road up like he does on a track.
Unfortunately we're not going to know the full story!!
Pratt later told police officers he was "driving as if he didn't care for anyone around him."His car was more than capable of going around the corner in the conditions. There were other issues which caused the crash. Maybe he was a s
t driver and likes to use the road up like he does on a track. Unfortunately we're not going to know the full story!!
Edited by M4CK 1 on Tuesday 14th January 09:11
LeoSayer said:
Looks to me like the driver assumed the road continued straight even though he had no way to see it.
He only reacted to the bend when it became visible to him, which was too late even though his speed beforehand didn't seem excessive.
That's what it looked like to me too. Using the limit point technique would have prevented his misjudgement, along with the other clues to help read the road.He only reacted to the bend when it became visible to him, which was too late even though his speed beforehand didn't seem excessive.
Esceptico said:
the safe and appropriate speed when going around a corner is one where you can stop, on your side of the road, within the distance you can see ahead. In general that is much lower than the maximum speed before you lose control
^ This.Salted_Peanut said:
LeoSayer said:
Looks to me like the driver assumed the road continued straight even though he had no way to see it.
He only reacted to the bend when it became visible to him, which was too late even though his speed beforehand didn't seem excessive.
That's what it looked like to me too. Using the limit point technique would have prevented his misjudgement, along with the other clues to help read the road.He only reacted to the bend when it became visible to him, which was too late even though his speed beforehand didn't seem excessive.
Esceptico said:
the safe and appropriate speed when going around a corner is one where you can stop, on your side of the road, within the distance you can see ahead. In general that is much lower than the maximum speed before you lose control
^ This.Dont like rolls said:
Try driving a BIG tractor down a busy country road, lots of "awwww fkkkkkk" faces to be seen.
Try driving one through a big town, when the eejits think you have full ABS... kkkkkk" faces to be seen.They don't half look worried when they realise the front bucket they pulled out in front of is ovehanging their motor
Gojira said:
Dont like rolls said:
Try driving a BIG tractor down a busy country road, lots of "awwww fkkkkkk" faces to be seen.
Try driving one through a big town, when the eejits think you have full ABS... kkkkkk" faces to be seen.They don't half look worried when they realise the front bucket they pulled out in front of is ovehanging their motor
Just put your belt on
Edited by Dont like rolls on Tuesday 14th January 20:35
it does look as though he didn't realise the corner was coming. it doesn't sound like understeer to me. I think the chirping is induced by panic braking mid corner and the car slows down. proper understeer would be a constant screech and no slowing, he took about 25mph off his speed.
I guess that with no panic and the correct line etc the corner was negotiable at the original speed as the Legacy follows him in and even manages to turn even tighter onto the inside verge on exit all while braking.
I guess that with no panic and the correct line etc the corner was negotiable at the original speed as the Legacy follows him in and even manages to turn even tighter onto the inside verge on exit all while braking.
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