Re : Porsche 911 (996) Turbo | The Brave Pill

[BlueEyedBoy]

Why any one would want one of these is crazy now, worst ever 911 design, modern hot hatches are faster, I lust after a bad boys aircooled turbo s because it's beautiful , rare and fast enough, there is nothing about this that makes me want to buy it.

[saxy]

mikiec said:

for 30k you can get another 420bhp 4wd coupe:

https://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/...

mileage significantly less as well

911s are just too common and have too high of 2nd hand asking price. I’d take the R8 in a heart beat. And since v10 models are newer, they tend to be significantly more expensive. I think I’m reconsidering to get a V8 model over a V10.

[anonymous-user]

BlueEyedBoy said:

Why any one would want one of these is crazy now, worst ever 911 design, modern hot hatches are faster, I lust after a bad boys aircooled turbo s because it's beautiful , rare and fast enough, there is nothing about this that makes me want to buy it.

But unfortunately a lot of us haven't got the funds to buy an air cooled Turbo S and a lot of people would rather have a 911 in any shape or form over a hot hatch.

[ATM]

MellowshipSlinky said:

I had one in 2009 - it was very competent but really did bore me.
Just seen it’s up for sale...
I sold it in 2011 for about £28k!

https://www.carandclassic.co.uk/car/C1176401

Gutted

But I cant see them achieving that. What's going on here?

[MellowshipSlinky]

ATM said:

Gutted

But I cant see them achieving that. What's going on here?

That’s the spare key with its own pouch to match the interior.
It was a stupidly expensive car when new with all the options.
£113,000 iirc....!

I paid £40k for it at 6 years old with 30k miles on the clock.

[Arsecati]

Sandpit Steve said:

That was a shocking repair, welding alu frame rails without any sort of jig at all. I definitely wouldn’t bet on it being close to straight!

Back on topic, would definitely take the 996 Turbo over a similar priced R8 V8.

Do your research - didn't need a jig for that particular repair: plenty of adjustment in the suspension/tracking post repair - IF needed. Repair is better/stronger than original - but each to their own.

[Niffty951]

BlueEyedBoy said:

Why any one would want one of these is crazy now, worst ever 911 design, modern hot hatches are faster, I lust after a bad boys aircooled turbo s because it's beautiful , rare and fast enough, there is nothing about this that makes me want to buy it.

Everyone is entitled to personal taste but suggesting an RS3 would live with this on the limits i.e. on track is just so obviously wrong I feel compelled to defend what Porsche have achieved.

It's hard to put into words the vast chasm of dynamic ability between the 996tt and and hot hatch without you having experienced it but they are operating on absolutely different levels. Not only is the Porsche lapping faster but one lap behind the wheel would tell you everything you need to know.

The 996tt is potentially too capable to explore on the roads, I accept that complaint, but it is a masterpiece of a car. The body control, the composure and the way it raises its game as the pace increases, never feeling out of balance or out of its depth but just getting better and better. It feels like its starts to come into its its game as the tyres begin to slip around through the corners, finally you feel the magic of the chassis underneath. It's like the driving equivalent of silk pyjamas. My only track complaint is the weight is hard on components, the brakes do give up after 3-5 hard laps and the front diff starts to get noisy as the oil goes thin.

Step out of this into the RS3 and they feel plausibly similar at modest speeds. Up to 6-7/10ths of the cars limits, despite the feel of the steering and nose lead weighting, you may be tempted to compliment the Audi on its composure feeling much like the 911. It's not quite as fluid but it can impress. Build up the pace though and as you get toward the limits the RS3 feels horrible to drive, feeling like you'll tuck the front wheel under the car and fighting any attempt to engage the rear end into the corners and lighting up the unloaded inside front out of corners if you apply too much throttle. It feels like hustling a minibus, you suddenly feel high up, there is no composure, the brakes are fading after barely one hard lap. It gives you nothing, no pleasure, no cornering options, no satisfaction. It just serves to show why cars like the Porsche are so special.

[markcoznottz]

J4CKO said:

markcoznottz said:

ATM said:

J4CKO said:

Still quick, but amazing how much has caught up with these performance wise.

This was a poster car when I was a kid. Didn't they come out on an x reg which is 2000. So that's 20 years ago now. I think they just dipped under the magic 4 sec to 60 with a 3.9 or something. The 4wd system must have really helped getting that. Although I'd guess the gt2 had a quicker time when it launched soon after. The latest equivalent 911 turbo to the 996tt must be below 3 seconds now.

I think car power outputs have gone crazy recently. A modern rs3 will probably see off a 996tt which is mental if you think about it. Back then we only had an s3 which had 210 bhp so half the power of a 996tt pretty much. The hatchbacks and average cars are catching up to the super cars more and more. The whole 911 range with all its variants including the most basic 911 would probably see off a 996tt.

Remap on a 996 tt an absolute must, transforms the car and turns it into the car it should have been. In give and take driving these pull much harder than an rs3/a45. It's the usability that suprises, like a big golf. It's also it's Achilles heel, as it's very refined.

Pulls much harder than an RS3 ? the recent one with 400 ish bhp and very similar performance numbers ?

Surely they would be fairly similar performance wise standard vs standard ?

Have been in a 991 Turbo S, that gave me a similar feeling of utter disbelief as the first time I went in a 1980 911 Turbo as a kid, had never felt anything
like it.

Would take the 911 over any Hot Hatch though.

On the road the cars are totally different, the 911 has much more bottom end, no turbo lag, and in give and take driving feels much more torquey. Remap on a standard 996tt raises boost pressure to the same as the 997tt, first gen. so approx 480 bhp ish. For the money it's the abilities of he car that are unsurpassed, totally usable to go to the shops for milk, or do 180+. The ride quality is very smooth as well, as good as a normal hatch, it's one of the few supercars you can take people in who really aren't into cars and they don't notice any compromises to comfort.

[tuscan_raider]

Never you mind said:

Venisonpie said:

Not really that brave however they're not the last word in agile. Stodgy is best how I'd describe the steer.

Have you driven one? I owned one for years and it never felt "stodgy". Very comptent car and fast but boring though.

It's lapis blue this one. Same colour as my old one.

THIS

Boring car, owned for 2 years swapped it for a Mk 1 Tuscan - comparable acceleration and top speed, much more involving, fun and "rarity / interest value"

Similar running costs too

[cerb4.5lee]

I've always seen the 911 Turbo as a bit of a hero car for sure. An awesome daily driver I'd imagine.

I find it fascinating that almost all Porsche 911's are turbocharged now though.

[theholygrail]

That's not a knife, etc.

This tickled me

[Never you mind]

J4CKO said:

Pulls much harder than an RS3 ? the recent one with 400 ish bhp and very similar performance numbers ?

Surely they would be fairly similar performance wise standard vs standard ?

Have been in a 991 Turbo S, that gave me a similar feeling of utter disbelief as the first time I went in a 1980 911 Turbo as a kid, had never felt anything
like it.

Would take the 911 over any Hot Hatch though.

I'd say the performance of a 996 TT is comparably to an A45 AMG. Feels the same from what I can tell and thats coming from owning both.

[Helicopter123]

Not that long ago, a good one was £20k.

The value has gone.

[Paddy78]

Love this thread! 911 Turbo is a boring car... compared to a TVR or Lamborghini... Thanks for the insight guys, I don't think many of us would have drawn those conclusions.

[coolchris]

I still think they have a real presence about them.I remember autocar did a test Britains quickest A to B car back in the day a challenging road over 20 miles or so.From memory the evo and impreza was in it one of the high powered caterhams a vx220 a noble m12 a diablo a Lotus 340r and an x50 996.The Noble and the 996 were a big chunk ahead of the rest at the end with the porker being quickest.Yes there are a lot of bonkers powered hatchbacks around but for me you park an rs3 next to one of these and I naturally know where I would be leaning towards one was a bona fide all weather supercar of its day the other a very rapid modern day steroided up hatch.I do think they have aged pretty well and I cant see them dropping any more in the coming years.

[pmr01]

Never you mind said:

J4CKO said:

Pulls much harder than an RS3 ? the recent one with 400 ish bhp and very similar performance numbers ?

Surely they would be fairly similar performance wise standard vs standard ?

Have been in a 991 Turbo S, that gave me a similar feeling of utter disbelief as the first time I went in a 1980 911 Turbo as a kid, had never felt anything
like it.

Would take the 911 over any Hot Hatch though.

I'd say the performance of a 996 TT is comparably to an A45 AMG. Feels the same from what I can tell and thats coming from owning both.

Owning both and 996t and M140i i am surprised by that. For me there is a difference that gets really big when the numbers rise.

[markcoznottz]

pmr01 said:

Never you mind said:

J4CKO said:

Pulls much harder than an RS3 ? the recent one with 400 ish bhp and very similar performance numbers ?

Surely they would be fairly similar performance wise standard vs standard ?

Have been in a 991 Turbo S, that gave me a similar feeling of utter disbelief as the first time I went in a 1980 911 Turbo as a kid, had never felt anything
like it.

Would take the 911 over any Hot Hatch though.

I'd say the performance of a 996 TT is comparably to an A45 AMG. Feels the same from what I can tell and thats coming from owning both.

Owning both and 996t and M140i i am surprised by that. For me there is a difference that gets really big when the numbers rise.

There's a noticeable difference, although my cars remapped, which definitely takes it to the next level.

[pmr01]

markcoznottz said:

pmr01 said:

Never you mind said:

J4CKO said:

Pulls much harder than an RS3 ? the recent one with 400 ish bhp and very similar performance numbers ?

Surely they would be fairly similar performance wise standard vs standard ?

Have been in a 991 Turbo S, that gave me a similar feeling of utter disbelief as the first time I went in a 1980 911 Turbo as a kid, had never felt anything
like it.

Would take the 911 over any Hot Hatch though.

I'd say the performance of a 996 TT is comparably to an A45 AMG. Feels the same from what I can tell and thats coming from owning both.

Owning both and 996t and M140i i am surprised by that. For me there is a difference that gets really big when the numbers rise.

There's a noticeable difference, although my cars remapped, which definitely takes it to the next level.

Ok, I guess I thought we were comparing standard with standard. As someone alluded to previoulsy, the problem with a hot hatxh is the architecture they are based on. The 140 feels like an extremely fast mpv...the 996 feels more suited to going fast.

[markcoznottz]

pmr01 said:

markcoznottz said:

pmr01 said:

Never you mind said:

J4CKO said:

Pulls much harder than an RS3 ? the recent one with 400 ish bhp and very similar performance numbers ?

Surely they would be fairly similar performance wise standard vs standard ?

Have been in a 991 Turbo S, that gave me a similar feeling of utter disbelief as the first time I went in a 1980 911 Turbo as a kid, had never felt anything
like it.

Would take the 911 over any Hot Hatch though.

I'd say the performance of a 996 TT is comparably to an A45 AMG. Feels the same from what I can tell and thats coming from owning both.

Owning both and 996t and M140i i am surprised by that. For me there is a difference that gets really big when the numbers rise.

There's a noticeable difference, although my cars remapped, which definitely takes it to the next level.

Ok, I guess I thought we were comparing standard with standard. As someone alluded to previoulsy, the problem with a hot hatxh is the architecture they are based on. The 140 feels like an extremely fast mpv...the 996 feels more suited to going fast.

The super hatchs, do feel a bit thin though, with having a high specific output, although the dsg gearbox allows you to row through the gears and is the best thing about them imho. The amg 45, the older model with optional sports exhaust and fart can soundtrack encourages you to drive like a hooligan, it's almost obligatory. 996 much more serene.

[neutral 3]

I was in the market for a 996T last year. Looked at Lots and there are Lots of rough 996Ts out there, with Big £££ bills looming. I found a really nice Turbo S and I made the seller an offer that I thought was more than enough. He had received zero offers on it up until myself. He turned my offer down.
But in hindsight I am glad he did. The car was lovely and ticked Almost All of the boxes for me in terms of spec and history, but, after my R1 and tweaked Griff 500, it did not feel quick, or involving to drive. Yes, it’s a fabulously capable car and I Really did love it and want it, but jumping out of that 996T after a long test drive and into the Griff, the Griff just feels much more of an “ event “ to drive.