Aston Martin DBX prototype | Driven
Discussion
cirks said:
Can't disagree with you about there being a big difference between some interiors of vehicles whether a perceived 'high quality' vehicle like the BMW and the true quality Bentley.
What are you basing 'true quality' on? As you just appear to be comparing 'perceived' perceived quality of BMW versus perceived quality of Bentley. True quality has nothing to do with metal versus plastic switches or thicker carpets. True quality is Toyota, not Bentley.JxJ Jr. said:
cirks said:
Can't disagree with you about there being a big difference between some interiors of vehicles whether a perceived 'high quality' vehicle like the BMW and the true quality Bentley.
What are you basing 'true quality' on? As you just appear to be comparing 'perceived' perceived quality of BMW versus perceived quality of Bentley. True quality has nothing to do with metal versus plastic switches or thicker carpets. True quality is Toyota, not Bentley.Or are you saying that Toyota interiors are better than that of a Bentley?
Taaaaang said:
JxJ Jr. said:
cirks said:
Can't disagree with you about there being a big difference between some interiors of vehicles whether a perceived 'high quality' vehicle like the BMW and the true quality Bentley.
What are you basing 'true quality' on? As you just appear to be comparing 'perceived' perceived quality of BMW versus perceived quality of Bentley. True quality has nothing to do with metal versus plastic switches or thicker carpets. True quality is Toyota, not Bentley.Or are you saying that Toyota interiors are better than that of a Bentley?
For Toyota, quality is defined by the use of long lasting, durable materials. These materials have low failure or degradation rates, but because of budget constraints, the materials are limited by cost, and so the overall quality can vary (hence switch gear in a Skoda is lower quality to that of Porsche). A very well built car, might not use premium quality materials, but who's to say what's good or bad quality?
For Bentley, quality is defined by the use of 'higher quality' materials. Leather will be of higher quality, and cost more because of where it's sourced. Seats will be made by hand, with all but the head rest logo stitched by hand. Durability is expected these days, where in the past an exotic car was known for being fragile, so not only must it be built from nicer materials, but it has to last a long time.
In recent times, the lower rung German car makers have had difficulty providing evidence that their upper tier cars are more luxurious than their midrange. Both BMW and Audi offer similar spec cabins at £50k and £100k, where the customer might expect either something more artisan, or simply different, be it grade of materials used, or more use of certain materials.
The elephant in the room here is that when luxury is subjective, and there's no clear winner, the discussion reverts back to indisputable numbers, and things like 0-60 mph times still dictate what's good and what isn't.
If we go back to the DBX vs Benteyga vs Urus, they're very different takes on the same brief. The Urus favours performance figures over luxury - as you might expect. Lamborghini's have never screamed 'understated class', and it's a weapon of a car for hooning around, albeit it faces competition from the RSQ8 now, in a similar way to an R8 V10+ offers much of the Huracan experience without the same price tag.
The Benteyga and DBX aren't quite two peas in a pod, but their ethos is similar - cossetting luxury, ample performance, style and sophistication. They have to waft the customer around but provide 'indecent' performance when requested. Because the Benteyga sits on a chassis designed for the Audi A6 and then re-purposed for the Q7, the architecture and shape are dictated long before a stylist is let loose at it. The cabin is nice, but some bits are chrome plated plastic rather than aluminium. It leans towards tradition in its materials, where the Urus is all about recreating an acid trip in an jet fighter.
DBX sits on a bespoke platform, appears to offer the most pleasing driving experience of the three, if the driving impressions are correct, and the interior is a step in the right direction for Aston interiors as the Vantage and DB11 interiors, while great quality (that word again), aren't styled in the timeless way that older cars were. There's some neat touches and the infotainment and speakers are nicely resolved which is an improvement on other models.
Which one's the best? They're all different, and provide different answers to the question of "I have £140k - 200k to spend on an SUV, what's available?". Perhaps the surprising thing that many are only just getting their head around, is the DBX might be the best one to drive - and for so, so many years, Astons have been "for old and bald men" (as described in another thread). Times are changing, and the talent pool at Aston Martin is just starting to get into its stride (at a good time, all things considered).
Aston's always excelled at enhancing and improving a model during its life cycle, so if the opening salvo from the DBX is as good as it seems, there's some excellent stuff to come in the near future
![](https://thumbsnap.com/sc/EcINZFHO.jpg[/img]</a> <a href="https://thumbsnap.com/nBYXsUR6" Target="_blank" rel="nofollow">[img]https://thumbsnap.com/sc/nBYXsUR6.jpg)
Greetings from Brussels.
Saw the DBX (and sat in it) this week at Brussels motorshow. Quite big (5 meters) in real life, plenty of space inside, looks like bottom spoilers and splitters front and back could easily be damaged if any off roading beyond gravel... .
Spoke to dealer and he said sales contingent for Belgium in 2020 already sold out, first test drives only in a few months.
If same story is echoed in coming motorshows, should be a success story for AM !
Cheers,
Frank
Edited by pbe624 on Thursday 16th January 13:20
CrayonPark said:
Looks like they've ripped off the Macan, doubled the price, and probably made it half as reliable. I’ll stick with Porsche thanks.
I haven't seen the words 'reliable' and 'Porsche' in the same post for a long time on a PH forum! Edited by CrayonPark on Wednesday 15th January 18:54
It already looks dated and is incredibly naff IMO. We'll look back on these cars like we look back to the 1980s and see some design horrors. Not a car for it's time - despite the market dictating it - in this world are we really needing huge, heavy V8 powered 4x4s with a sporting name. Again, I think SUVs is a phase that will pass and looked back on with hilarity and embarrassment.
Still, it is Astons only hope..
Still, it is Astons only hope..
nickfrog said:
YouTalkinToMe said:
IAgain, I think SUVs is a phase that will pass and looked back on with hilarity and embarrassment.
Perhaps and particularly if a better format is invented for family transport. How long is a phase though. SUVs have been around for a very long time.
Discounting the Range Rover, as that didn't have a whole host of GT and sports cars behind their name.
I literally turned on the news and there was attenborough going on about climate change followed by Greta and a whole host of young activists, followed by that Australian fires.
And now we have a fat Aston to make someone slightly more comfortable powered by a petrol V8. Brilliant timing. Aston are launching the past.
I'm not saying the shape will disappear, whether EVs or whatever can still work with SUVs. Aston are no where near that.
YouTalkinToMe said:
I literally turned on the news and there was attenborough going on about climate change followed by Greta and a whole host of young activists, followed by that Australian fires.
And now we have a fat Aston to make someone slightly more comfortable powered by a petrol V8. Brilliant timing. Aston are launching the past.
Have to agree, it’s a dinosaur. They should be in bed with Rivian rather than Mercedes on this one.And now we have a fat Aston to make someone slightly more comfortable powered by a petrol V8. Brilliant timing. Aston are launching the past.
YouTalkinToMe said:
Not really. SUVs have, but these 'premium' ones started in the early 2000s with Porsche I think.
Discounting the Range Rover, as that didn't have a whole host of GT and sports cars behind their name.
I literally turned on the news and there was attenborough going on about climate change followed by Greta and a whole host of young activists, followed by that Australian fires.
And now we have a fat Aston to make someone slightly more comfortable powered by a petrol V8. Brilliant timing. Aston are launching the past.
I'm not saying the shape will disappear, whether EVs or whatever can still work with SUVs. Aston are no where near that.
Theoretically speaking, if you ran a low volume prestige car maker, and had a much smaller operating budget than its rivals, how would you set about creating a car (or a range of cars) that fits the most popular niche currently? Discounting the Range Rover, as that didn't have a whole host of GT and sports cars behind their name.
I literally turned on the news and there was attenborough going on about climate change followed by Greta and a whole host of young activists, followed by that Australian fires.
And now we have a fat Aston to make someone slightly more comfortable powered by a petrol V8. Brilliant timing. Aston are launching the past.
I'm not saying the shape will disappear, whether EVs or whatever can still work with SUVs. Aston are no where near that.
Up until 2015 your engine development programme centres around a 4.7 N/A V8 that was re-engineered from Jaguar and dates back to the early 2000's, and an ageing N/A 5.9 V12 that can no longer be used due to emissions issues and a perceived lack of horsepower. All new engines are needed, all new chassis platforms are needed. There's an option to buy in a V8 engine from AMG and Daimler sourced infotainment to replace the ageing Garmin tech used in last gen cars. Do you take that option so you can offer a brand new Vantage at the end of 2017?
Some contraints to bear in mind:
- To sustain the existing business, staff numbers and facilities have grown to accommodate building more traditional sports cars per annum. For that to work, you need to sell more cars, but sports car sales are struggling.
- Because your last generation sports cars had such a long life cycle, they're now woefully out of date but you need to produce a brand spanking new range of cars that can compete with rival car makers.
- You have no access to tried and tested hybrid or EV tech because you have no parent company parts bin to lean on.
- You see the popularity of SUV's, and that prestige SUV's are a market that you can sell to across the globe. However - because you dislike them, you elect not to build the DBX. You have to build something else, that will sell like hot cakes and become your star player, the bread winner for the company.
- The option to sell the company or be bought out by someone like Mercedes is not really an option you like, because you want to avoid being perceived as merely a maker of re-bodied Mercs for inflated prices, and you'd like to retain the purity of the brand that has existed for 107 years.
- You cannot scale back operations to a level akin to Morgan, because it's simply outgrown that kind of business model, but because of all the points listed above, you still have to produce high performance, luxury, hand built cars, on UK soil, to sell to the whole world.
What's the plan?
Aston Martin chose to build the DBX, and with the cash it makes (because Vantage is no longer the bread winner for the company), the investment at St Athan into electrification of vehicles can start to bear fruit, so future year Vantage, DB11, DBS and DBX can then be hybrid or EV, while being bespoke, designed and built in the UK. It's a solid plan IMO, but it required heavy investment and an element of risk on the theory that DBX would be a success. Early indications show it will indeed be a success, and knowing the constraints placed on the marque, I don't believe they could have executed it much better - I'd have held back on the IPO though until 12 months of DBX sales were in the book though (just my 2p worth).
Some will argue that DBX should have been the priority, but when the DB11 was first launched in 2016, sales of the last gen Vantage, Vanquish and Rapide were slowly but surely drying up. DB9 was the oldest model so due a refresh first, next up was Vantage - it was expected to sell well. It's sold to a more diverse customer base, but not in the numbers hoped.
I get that a gas guzzling SUV appears to be the antithesis of the current climate change message, but if it provides the marque with the cash to deliver a more efficient, greener future across its entire product range, it makes sense to do it.
scottydoesntknow said:
YouTalkinToMe said:
I literally turned on the news and there was attenborough going on about climate change followed by Greta and a whole host of young activists, followed by that Australian fires.
And now we have a fat Aston to make someone slightly more comfortable powered by a petrol V8. Brilliant timing. Aston are launching the past.
Have to agree, it’s a dinosaur. They should be in bed with Rivian rather than Mercedes on this one.And now we have a fat Aston to make someone slightly more comfortable powered by a petrol V8. Brilliant timing. Aston are launching the past.
So Aston could design an EV product for their projected biggest market - China, but its going to get charged by coal fired power station.
Most car manufacturers are not making money on EV cars. Aston has enough financial issues without moving to EV.
Neil1300r said:
The biggest market for this is China not the UK or Europe.
The Chinese like EV’s. That’s one of the reasons Tesla are building a factory there to produce 250k cars a year.Something like a Rivian skateboard would be ideal for Aston. Drivetrain, chassis, batteries, motors and tech all comes supplied in a box. Aston coach build a body, interior and tune the dynamics.
Neil1300r said:
scottydoesntknow said:
The Chinese like EV’s. That’s one of the reasons Tesla are building a factory there to produce 250k cars a year.
EV sales in China increased in 2019 from 4.5% to 4.7%. Not that much likeGassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff