Myth about former luxury car brands
Discussion
Having had company cars for the last 20-years mostly Mercedes C E GLC etc. I always thought I wouldn't be seen dead in a Kia or a Vectra or Mondeo etc. Having been in them they don't seem much difference apart from the badge. There was a time when a Fiesta was a s*** basic box now it has electric everything air con Bluetooth Sat Nav etc and is really quiet and smooth and drives like a much bigger car so really the difference between car brands to me is virtually zero . If I had to buy a new car with my own money now I think I would get a Kia or a Ford.
Export56 said:
Having had company cars for the last 20-years mostly Mercedes C E GLC etc. I always thought I wouldn't be seen dead in a Kia or a Vectra or Mondeo etc. Having been in them they don't seem much difference apart from the badge. There was a time when a Fiesta was a s*** basic box now it has electric everything air con Bluetooth Sat Nav etc and is really quiet and smooth and drives like a much bigger car so really the difference between car brands to me is virtually zero . If I had to buy a new car with my own money now I think I would get a Kia or a Ford.
That's the thing. The Kias of this world have gone up and the BMWs have gone down, to the extent they now meet in the middle in terms of quality, equipment etc. Youd think there would still be a gulf in prices, but largely they're quite similar..you may as well have the BMW, even if the quality isn't like it used to be.I have owned a wide range of cars over the years, a significant number of Fords, the Odd Vauxhall (driven loads of them though), Mazda, Subaru, Audi, BMW, Mercedes, Volvo, the list would go on longer if I thought about it a bit.
In terms of running costs Fords were undoubtedly the cheapest for me overall for specific parts not including general consumables, brakes, tyres, etc.
Volvo has been the most expensive in my experience and hardest to source specific parts, for a car not part of the current range but not particularly old (V60) the amount of times I've been told parts have to come from Sweden, not in the U.K is getting silly and the prices can be eye watering. I didn't have the same issues with any of the German brands or the Japanese brands.
Mercedes, BMW, Audi and Volvo have all been more expensive than say Ford and Vauxhall for specific dealer parts, consumables are pretty much comparable.
In terms of comfort I would rank Mercedes highest followed by Audi and Volvo pretty much on a par then BMW under that.
If I'm honest I don't think much beats a well specced Mondeo for a daily driver in terms of value vs comfort
In terms of running costs Fords were undoubtedly the cheapest for me overall for specific parts not including general consumables, brakes, tyres, etc.
Volvo has been the most expensive in my experience and hardest to source specific parts, for a car not part of the current range but not particularly old (V60) the amount of times I've been told parts have to come from Sweden, not in the U.K is getting silly and the prices can be eye watering. I didn't have the same issues with any of the German brands or the Japanese brands.
Mercedes, BMW, Audi and Volvo have all been more expensive than say Ford and Vauxhall for specific dealer parts, consumables are pretty much comparable.
In terms of comfort I would rank Mercedes highest followed by Audi and Volvo pretty much on a par then BMW under that.
If I'm honest I don't think much beats a well specced Mondeo for a daily driver in terms of value vs comfort
I run a garage, so I DO know what I'm talking about here.
German cars, all of them except Porsche which I admit I see very few of so I can;t speak for them, have gone slowly off a cliff buil and design quality wise since about the 2005. Mercedes in particular dissapoint me hugely now. Honestly I give you my word if I was buying a Merc I would sooner have a 15 year old one than a new one out of warranty. I mean that! Also it will outlast a 2017 Audi 2.0 TDI whatever model it is. Part of the problem is that so many German cars are diesels (with all the potetntial expense that entails) and the rest are petrols bought by people who can just afford to buy them but can't then afford to maintain them.
So, what do I drive as my personal car you ask? A 2007 Honda Civic type R. It's fun, it's incredibly well built and they're cheap, both to buy and run.
IF you want my advice, and I accept you may well not, then buy a Honda, Toyota or Kia/Hyundai. I admit the Korean stuff was laughable when I first started coming across them but they've really come on!
Of course if you want to impress your neighbours or buy something so quick you'll never drive it it to within 60% of it's potential and if you can afford the horrendous repair/servicing costs then be my guest...buy a VAG car, or a Mercedes. But, if you're going the VAG route then at least go for a Seat and get the heap cheaper!
German cars, all of them except Porsche which I admit I see very few of so I can;t speak for them, have gone slowly off a cliff buil and design quality wise since about the 2005. Mercedes in particular dissapoint me hugely now. Honestly I give you my word if I was buying a Merc I would sooner have a 15 year old one than a new one out of warranty. I mean that! Also it will outlast a 2017 Audi 2.0 TDI whatever model it is. Part of the problem is that so many German cars are diesels (with all the potetntial expense that entails) and the rest are petrols bought by people who can just afford to buy them but can't then afford to maintain them.
So, what do I drive as my personal car you ask? A 2007 Honda Civic type R. It's fun, it's incredibly well built and they're cheap, both to buy and run.
IF you want my advice, and I accept you may well not, then buy a Honda, Toyota or Kia/Hyundai. I admit the Korean stuff was laughable when I first started coming across them but they've really come on!
Of course if you want to impress your neighbours or buy something so quick you'll never drive it it to within 60% of it's potential and if you can afford the horrendous repair/servicing costs then be my guest...buy a VAG car, or a Mercedes. But, if you're going the VAG route then at least go for a Seat and get the heap cheaper!
ffhard said:
Part of the problem is ... the rest are petrols bought by people who can just afford to buy them but can't then afford to maintain them.
Sounds to me like you don't see much of the properly maintained end of the market, given that you're only seeing cars maintained on a shoestring. If everything you ever see has been maintained on the cheap, then you'd expect lots of issues.Baldchap said:
Sounds to me like you don't see much of the properly maintained end of the market, given that you're only seeing cars maintained on a shoestring. If everything you ever see has been maintained on the cheap, then you'd expect lots of issues.
Exactly, a Kia or Fird that sees the bare minimum of maintenance is likely to be just as poor as a BMW that’s been treated the same. But, the big German brands have lowered quality to an extent as they've chased volume but you can’t blame them because they still sell loads, so why go the bother of over engineering stuff?Jamescrs said:
I have owned a wide range of cars over the years, a significant number of Fords, the Odd Vauxhall (driven loads of them though), Mazda, Subaru, Audi, BMW, Mercedes, Volvo, the list would go on longer if I thought about it a bit.
In terms of running costs Fords were undoubtedly the cheapest for me overall for specific parts not including general consumables, brakes, tyres, etc.
Volvo has been the most expensive in my experience and hardest to source specific parts, for a car not part of the current range but not particularly old (V60) the amount of times I've been told parts have to come from Sweden, not in the U.K is getting silly and the prices can be eye watering. I didn't have the same issues with any of the German brands or the Japanese brands.
Mercedes, BMW, Audi and Volvo have all been more expensive than say Ford and Vauxhall for specific dealer parts, consumables are pretty much comparable.
In terms of comfort I would rank Mercedes highest followed by Audi and Volvo pretty much on a par then BMW under that.
If I'm honest I don't think much beats a well specced Mondeo for a daily driver in terms of value vs comfort
Picked up a decently specced Mondeo in November after ten years of driving almost exclusively VAG products. Ten or so Passats, Golfs etc. The Mondeo is just as good if not better to drive, pretty much the same on diesel (DPF may be strangling that) and it's on 186k and feels fresh as a daisy. The Passat it replaced was pretty much dead at 140k. That may be down to a previous owner though, as I've also got a 1.9TDI Passat since nearly new and it's still in great shape as it's looked after.In terms of running costs Fords were undoubtedly the cheapest for me overall for specific parts not including general consumables, brakes, tyres, etc.
Volvo has been the most expensive in my experience and hardest to source specific parts, for a car not part of the current range but not particularly old (V60) the amount of times I've been told parts have to come from Sweden, not in the U.K is getting silly and the prices can be eye watering. I didn't have the same issues with any of the German brands or the Japanese brands.
Mercedes, BMW, Audi and Volvo have all been more expensive than say Ford and Vauxhall for specific dealer parts, consumables are pretty much comparable.
In terms of comfort I would rank Mercedes highest followed by Audi and Volvo pretty much on a par then BMW under that.
If I'm honest I don't think much beats a well specced Mondeo for a daily driver in terms of value vs comfort
ffhard said:
I run a garage, so I DO know what I'm talking about here.
German cars, all of them except Porsche which I admit I see very few of so I can;t speak for them, have gone slowly off a cliff buil and design quality wise since about the 2005. Mercedes in particular dissapoint me hugely now. Honestly I give you my word if I was buying a Merc I would sooner have a 15 year old one than a new one out of warranty. I mean that! Also it will outlast a 2017 Audi 2.0 TDI whatever model it is. Part of the problem is that so many German cars are diesels (with all the potetntial expense that entails) and the rest are petrols bought by people who can just afford to buy them but can't then afford to maintain them.
So, what do I drive as my personal car you ask? A 2007 Honda Civic type R. It's fun, it's incredibly well built and they're cheap, both to buy and run.
IF you want my advice, and I accept you may well not, then buy a Honda, Toyota or Kia/Hyundai. I admit the Korean stuff was laughable when I first started coming across them but they've really come on!
Of course if you want to impress your neighbours or buy something so quick you'll never drive it it to within 60% of it's potential and if you can afford the horrendous repair/servicing costs then be my guest...buy a VAG car, or a Mercedes. But, if you're going the VAG route then at least go for a Seat and get the heap cheaper!
Could this be connected with so called PCPs? If cars only need to be durable for 3 years will makers’ planned obsolescence rear its ugly head?I don’t want to go all the way down the Practical Classics route, but cars a decade or so old appear to have more inherent durability. Answers on a postcard...German cars, all of them except Porsche which I admit I see very few of so I can;t speak for them, have gone slowly off a cliff buil and design quality wise since about the 2005. Mercedes in particular dissapoint me hugely now. Honestly I give you my word if I was buying a Merc I would sooner have a 15 year old one than a new one out of warranty. I mean that! Also it will outlast a 2017 Audi 2.0 TDI whatever model it is. Part of the problem is that so many German cars are diesels (with all the potetntial expense that entails) and the rest are petrols bought by people who can just afford to buy them but can't then afford to maintain them.
So, what do I drive as my personal car you ask? A 2007 Honda Civic type R. It's fun, it's incredibly well built and they're cheap, both to buy and run.
IF you want my advice, and I accept you may well not, then buy a Honda, Toyota or Kia/Hyundai. I admit the Korean stuff was laughable when I first started coming across them but they've really come on!
Of course if you want to impress your neighbours or buy something so quick you'll never drive it it to within 60% of it's potential and if you can afford the horrendous repair/servicing costs then be my guest...buy a VAG car, or a Mercedes. But, if you're going the VAG route then at least go for a Seat and get the heap cheaper!
ffhard said:
I run a garage, so I DO know what I'm talking about here.
German cars, all of them except Porsche which I admit I see very few of so I can;t speak for them, have gone slowly off a cliff buil and design quality wise since about the 2005. Mercedes in particular dissapoint me hugely now. Honestly I give you my word if I was buying a Merc I would sooner have a 15 year old one than a new one out of warranty. I mean that! Also it will outlast a 2017 Audi 2.0 TDI whatever model it is. Part of the problem is that so many German cars are diesels (with all the potetntial expense that entails) and the rest are petrols bought by people who can just afford to buy them but can't then afford to maintain them.
So, what do I drive as my personal car you ask? A 2007 Honda Civic type R. It's fun, it's incredibly well built and they're cheap, both to buy and run.
IF you want my advice, and I accept you may well not, then buy a Honda, Toyota or Kia/Hyundai. I admit the Korean stuff was laughable when I first started coming across them but they've really come on!
Of course if you want to impress your neighbours or buy something so quick you'll never drive it it to within 60% of it's potential and if you can afford the horrendous repair/servicing costs then be my guest...buy a VAG car, or a Mercedes. But, if you're going the VAG route then at least go for a Seat and get the heap cheaper!
Interesting to note that VW are regarded here as premium. A triumph of marketing...they are usually far too dear second hand and I was recently shocked by the costs a great VW fanatic had had to stomp up repairs to a Passat.German cars, all of them except Porsche which I admit I see very few of so I can;t speak for them, have gone slowly off a cliff buil and design quality wise since about the 2005. Mercedes in particular dissapoint me hugely now. Honestly I give you my word if I was buying a Merc I would sooner have a 15 year old one than a new one out of warranty. I mean that! Also it will outlast a 2017 Audi 2.0 TDI whatever model it is. Part of the problem is that so many German cars are diesels (with all the potetntial expense that entails) and the rest are petrols bought by people who can just afford to buy them but can't then afford to maintain them.
So, what do I drive as my personal car you ask? A 2007 Honda Civic type R. It's fun, it's incredibly well built and they're cheap, both to buy and run.
IF you want my advice, and I accept you may well not, then buy a Honda, Toyota or Kia/Hyundai. I admit the Korean stuff was laughable when I first started coming across them but they've really come on!
Of course if you want to impress your neighbours or buy something so quick you'll never drive it it to within 60% of it's potential and if you can afford the horrendous repair/servicing costs then be my guest...buy a VAG car, or a Mercedes. But, if you're going the VAG route then at least go for a Seat and get the heap cheaper!
Lester H said:
ffhard said:
I run a garage, so I DO know what I'm talking about here.
German cars, all of them except Porsche which I admit I see very few of so I can;t speak for them, have gone slowly off a cliff buil and design quality wise since about the 2005. Mercedes in particular dissapoint me hugely now. Honestly I give you my word if I was buying a Merc I would sooner have a 15 year old one than a new one out of warranty. I mean that! Also it will outlast a 2017 Audi 2.0 TDI whatever model it is. Part of the problem is that so many German cars are diesels (with all the potetntial expense that entails) and the rest are petrols bought by people who can just afford to buy them but can't then afford to maintain them.
So, what do I drive as my personal car you ask? A 2007 Honda Civic type R. It's fun, it's incredibly well built and they're cheap, both to buy and run.
IF you want my advice, and I accept you may well not, then buy a Honda, Toyota or Kia/Hyundai. I admit the Korean stuff was laughable when I first started coming across them but they've really come on!
Of course if you want to impress your neighbours or buy something so quick you'll never drive it it to within 60% of it's potential and if you can afford the horrendous repair/servicing costs then be my guest...buy a VAG car, or a Mercedes. But, if you're going the VAG route then at least go for a Seat and get the heap cheaper!
Could this be connected with so called PCPs? If cars only need to be durable for 3 years will makers’ planned obsolescence rear its ugly head?I don’t want to go all the way down the Practical Classics route, but cars a decade or so old appear to have more inherent durability. Answers on a postcard...German cars, all of them except Porsche which I admit I see very few of so I can;t speak for them, have gone slowly off a cliff buil and design quality wise since about the 2005. Mercedes in particular dissapoint me hugely now. Honestly I give you my word if I was buying a Merc I would sooner have a 15 year old one than a new one out of warranty. I mean that! Also it will outlast a 2017 Audi 2.0 TDI whatever model it is. Part of the problem is that so many German cars are diesels (with all the potetntial expense that entails) and the rest are petrols bought by people who can just afford to buy them but can't then afford to maintain them.
So, what do I drive as my personal car you ask? A 2007 Honda Civic type R. It's fun, it's incredibly well built and they're cheap, both to buy and run.
IF you want my advice, and I accept you may well not, then buy a Honda, Toyota or Kia/Hyundai. I admit the Korean stuff was laughable when I first started coming across them but they've really come on!
Of course if you want to impress your neighbours or buy something so quick you'll never drive it it to within 60% of it's potential and if you can afford the horrendous repair/servicing costs then be my guest...buy a VAG car, or a Mercedes. But, if you're going the VAG route then at least go for a Seat and get the heap cheaper!
How many Boxsters and 911's do we hear about with MAJOR problems.
All cars have faults. Of course. I completely understand that. Common things to look out for.
But rarely do these have such catastrophic problems such as Porsche.
Nothing wrong with modern diesels, to be honest the only "failure" point is the emissions malarky and if you get rid of that....... :-)
I don't really think any modern car is ridiculously un reliable, gone are those days thank fook !!!
Also regarding Seat / VW / Audi, all of the mechanical bits are the same (IE suspension, engine etc). The difference is in the interior quality so while you may save money in a Seat the interior is not as nice!
I don't think there is any planned failure after 3 years (or any time period!) of any car so I don't think it has anything to do with PCP/Lease etc. It's merely another way of financing cars... people have been financing cars heavily for the last 20 years .
That would be incredibly short sighted of manufacturers.
Not to mention even BMW and Audi are still selling approved used cars from 2010 and onwards.
These all come with full factory warranty......... and in addition for example BMW Insured Warranty you can also get a factory warranty on pretty much any car for a reasonable price.
While obviously some things are not thought though I really believe most automotive engineers try to do the very best job they can with the budget they're given.
By this logic we should all be driving around in Hyundai i10s and the world would be incredibly boring!
My M135i interior is significantly nicer place to be than an E46
Not just the technology but the quality.
Many modern cars have much nicer materials than they did many years ago.
I mean an easy example is look at the modern Skoda Fabia v it's original Felicia, even the late 90's / early 2000's Fabia, to see how far overall quality has come.
Everyone s
ts on some brand.I know people who think Japanese has some of the most stupid reliability / engineering problems in the world
I know people on the other hand who think Japanese cars are the best ever
I know people who think Fords are the best, infact every manufacturer .... the fact is most cars are now so closely matched in terms of overall reliability that there's nothing between them for most of us!
Regarding servicing costs I don't really think there is any cost in servicing most cars whether it's a Ford or a BMW other than the LABOUR RATES
Oil filters are all less than 20 quid for most mainstream cars and the only difference in cost is whether one takes 3.5L or 5L of oil.
Of course using your brain means if you supply the oil it's half the price you'd pay from a garage.
The labour time to service a Ford Focus is broadly the same as a BMW as it is a Vauxhall. But usually the Ford would be the cheapest at a Main dealer, with BMW the most.
Edited by xjay1337 on Thursday 23 January 23:43
Here the MB dealer charges €120 per hour. My man charges €25. I mean, there is no greasing, just an oil and filter change, a pollen filter every couple of years an air filter and fuel filter. Oh, and a gearbox oil change every 60,000. And don't forget the latter, as I did, believing the box was sealed for life. The kit was £120 on Ebay including the ATF, and while the box was fine the oil was more like treacle and the filter a mess. We just saved it in time I reckon.
xjay1337 said:
I don't see how anyone can defend Porsche build / quality
How many Boxsters and 911's do we hear about with MAJOR problems.
All cars have faults. Of course. I completely understand that. Common things to look out for.
But rarely do these have such catastrophic problems such as Porsche.
Nothing wrong with modern diesels, to be honest the only "failure" point is the emissions malarky and if you get rid of that....... :-)
I don't really think any modern car is ridiculously un reliable, gone are those days thank fook !!!
Also regarding Seat / VW / Audi, all of the mechanical bits are the same (IE suspension, engine etc). The difference is in the interior quality so while you may save money in a Seat the interior is not as nice!
I don't think there is any planned failure after 3 years (or any time period!) of any car so I don't think it has anything to do with PCP/Lease etc. It's merely another way of financing cars... people have been financing cars heavily for the last 20 years .
That would be incredibly short sighted of manufacturers.
Not to mention even BMW and Audi are still selling approved used cars from 2010 and onwards.
These all come with full factory warranty......... and in addition for example BMW Insured Warranty you can also get a factory warranty on pretty much any car for a reasonable price.
While obviously some things are not thought though I really believe most automotive engineers try to do the very best job they can with the budget they're given.
By this logic we should all be driving around in Hyundai i10s and the world would be incredibly boring!
My M135i interior is significantly nicer place to be than an E46
Not just the technology but the quality.
Many modern cars have much nicer materials than they did many years ago.
I mean an easy example is look at the modern Skoda Fabia v it's original Felicia, even the late 90's / early 2000's Fabia, to see how far overall quality has come.
Everyone sts on some brand.
I know people who think Japanese has some of the most stupid reliability / engineering problems in the world
I know people on the other hand who think Japanese cars are the best ever
I know people who think Fords are the best, infact every manufacturer .... the fact is most cars are now so closely matched in terms of overall reliability that there's nothing between them for most of us!
Regarding servicing costs I don't really think there is any cost in servicing most cars whether it's a Ford or a BMW other than the LABOUR RATES
Oil filters are all less than 20 quid for most mainstream cars and the only difference in cost is whether one takes 3.5L or 5L of oil.
Of course using your brain means if you supply the oil it's half the price you'd pay from a garage.
The labour time to service a Ford Focus is broadly the same as a BMW as it is a Vauxhall. But usually the Ford would be the cheapest at a Main dealer, with BMW the most.
Modern diesels are perfectly reliable if used a intended; i.e. for those doing bigger miles etc. The trouble comes when someone buys based on the claimed economy and uses them to potter about town. My previous car with a DPF was fine over 84k which I covered in four years, but most trips were longish with plenty of time bashing along the motorway.How many Boxsters and 911's do we hear about with MAJOR problems.
All cars have faults. Of course. I completely understand that. Common things to look out for.
But rarely do these have such catastrophic problems such as Porsche.
Nothing wrong with modern diesels, to be honest the only "failure" point is the emissions malarky and if you get rid of that....... :-)
I don't really think any modern car is ridiculously un reliable, gone are those days thank fook !!!
Also regarding Seat / VW / Audi, all of the mechanical bits are the same (IE suspension, engine etc). The difference is in the interior quality so while you may save money in a Seat the interior is not as nice!
I don't think there is any planned failure after 3 years (or any time period!) of any car so I don't think it has anything to do with PCP/Lease etc. It's merely another way of financing cars... people have been financing cars heavily for the last 20 years .
That would be incredibly short sighted of manufacturers.
Not to mention even BMW and Audi are still selling approved used cars from 2010 and onwards.
These all come with full factory warranty......... and in addition for example BMW Insured Warranty you can also get a factory warranty on pretty much any car for a reasonable price.
While obviously some things are not thought though I really believe most automotive engineers try to do the very best job they can with the budget they're given.
By this logic we should all be driving around in Hyundai i10s and the world would be incredibly boring!
My M135i interior is significantly nicer place to be than an E46
Not just the technology but the quality.
Many modern cars have much nicer materials than they did many years ago.
I mean an easy example is look at the modern Skoda Fabia v it's original Felicia, even the late 90's / early 2000's Fabia, to see how far overall quality has come.
Everyone s
ts on some brand.I know people who think Japanese has some of the most stupid reliability / engineering problems in the world
I know people on the other hand who think Japanese cars are the best ever
I know people who think Fords are the best, infact every manufacturer .... the fact is most cars are now so closely matched in terms of overall reliability that there's nothing between them for most of us!
Regarding servicing costs I don't really think there is any cost in servicing most cars whether it's a Ford or a BMW other than the LABOUR RATES
Oil filters are all less than 20 quid for most mainstream cars and the only difference in cost is whether one takes 3.5L or 5L of oil.
Of course using your brain means if you supply the oil it's half the price you'd pay from a garage.
The labour time to service a Ford Focus is broadly the same as a BMW as it is a Vauxhall. But usually the Ford would be the cheapest at a Main dealer, with BMW the most.
Edited by xjay1337 on Thursday 23 January 23:43
The Porsche comment is a good point; IMS bearings, bore scoring etc. Stuff like engine rebuilds seems to be run of the mill (well it is the way some owners talk about it).
As for the cost of servicing etc, the so called posher brands need to pay for those big shiny showrooms somehow! My local BMW dealership has a ‘free’ coffee bar with pastries, cakes etc whereas the Ford dealership was a water vending machine in the corner.
I’ve had 4 Porsches, they are fantastic cars to drive and look at but many models, like a lot of cars, are riddled with weak points, design faults, expensive common repairs, and catastrophic failure points. The parts and labour are much more expensive than normal cars. If you go to Porsche they’ll charge you over £1k for discs and pads all round on a Boxster
ffhard said:
I run a garage, so I DO know what I'm talking about here.
German cars, all of them except Porsche which I admit I see very few of so I can;t speak for them, have gone slowly off a cliff buil and design quality wise since about the 2005. Mercedes in particular dissapoint me hugely now. Honestly I give you my word if I was buying a Merc I would sooner have a 15 year old one than a new one out of warranty. I mean that! Also it will outlast a 2017 Audi 2.0 TDI whatever model it is. Part of the problem is that so many German cars are diesels (with all the potetntial expense that entails) and the rest are petrols bought by people who can just afford to buy them but can't then afford to maintain them.
So, what do I drive as my personal car you ask? A 2007 Honda Civic type R. It's fun, it's incredibly well built and they're cheap, both to buy and run.
IF you want my advice, and I accept you may well not, then buy a Honda, Toyota or Kia/Hyundai. I admit the Korean stuff was laughable when I first started coming across them but they've really come on!
Of course if you want to impress your neighbours or buy something so quick you'll never drive it it to within 60% of it's potential and if you can afford the horrendous repair/servicing costs then be my guest...buy a VAG car, or a Mercedes. But, if you're going the VAG route then at least go for a Seat and get the heap cheaper!
Hmm.. My wife has had a 2007 Civic Type R for many years; an immaculate example we bought from a guy who did interim oil changes, every tiny thing serviced etc. I'm a huge fan of Honda, but I definitely wouldn't put its build quality ahead of any of the BMWs I've owned, and I've fixed a few things on it myself, so have looked at it from that perspective too. The FN2 CTR also been considerably more expensive to run than any other car in our household over that time (many BMWs and two Lotuses); so much so in fact that the CTR is now a second car...German cars, all of them except Porsche which I admit I see very few of so I can;t speak for them, have gone slowly off a cliff buil and design quality wise since about the 2005. Mercedes in particular dissapoint me hugely now. Honestly I give you my word if I was buying a Merc I would sooner have a 15 year old one than a new one out of warranty. I mean that! Also it will outlast a 2017 Audi 2.0 TDI whatever model it is. Part of the problem is that so many German cars are diesels (with all the potetntial expense that entails) and the rest are petrols bought by people who can just afford to buy them but can't then afford to maintain them.
So, what do I drive as my personal car you ask? A 2007 Honda Civic type R. It's fun, it's incredibly well built and they're cheap, both to buy and run.
IF you want my advice, and I accept you may well not, then buy a Honda, Toyota or Kia/Hyundai. I admit the Korean stuff was laughable when I first started coming across them but they've really come on!
Of course if you want to impress your neighbours or buy something so quick you'll never drive it it to within 60% of it's potential and if you can afford the horrendous repair/servicing costs then be my guest...buy a VAG car, or a Mercedes. But, if you're going the VAG route then at least go for a Seat and get the heap cheaper!
Edited by RobM77 on Friday 24th January 09:50
RobM77 said:
Hmm.. My wife has had a 2007 Civic Type R for many years; an immaculate example we bought from a guy who did interim oil changes, every tiny thing serviced etc. I'm a huge fan of Honda, but I definitely wouldn't put its build quality ahead of any of the BMWs I've owned, and I've fixed a few things on it myself, so have looked at it from that perspective too. The FN2 CTR also been considerably more expensive to run than any other car in our household over that time (many BMWs and two Lotuses); so much so in fact that the CTR is now a second car...
If you ask me the FN series is a great example of Honda cost-saving and losing ground because of it.Go back to the 1990s and the main issues were rust, more rust, and seizing rear calipers (+ the odd 3rd gear synchro). Civics and Accords from that era, mechanically, can be referred to in the same hushed tones as Lexuses and 1980s Merc saloons.
...it's just that the interiors were very...of that era.
Everything modern is becoming more homogenous, the differentiators being body-trim styling, non-mechanical content, and how much they invest in QA and supplier development. They're also becoming more disposable - yes the bodyshells are much better but an electrical issue or a minor shunt can write off a lot of stuff that previously would have happily run for another 10-20 years.
Baldchap said:
ffhard said:
Part of the problem is ... the rest are petrols bought by people who can just afford to buy them but can't then afford to maintain them.
Sounds to me like you don't see much of the properly maintained end of the market, given that you're only seeing cars maintained on a shoestring. If everything you ever see has been maintained on the cheap, then you'd expect lots of issues.Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff