Myth about former luxury car brands

[av185]

xjay1337 said:

I don't see how anyone can defend Porsche build / quality
How many Boxsters and 911's do we hear about with MAJOR problems.

All cars have faults. Of course. I completely understand that. Common things to look out for.
But rarely do these have such catastrophic problems such as Porsche.

I'll just leave these here:





Also in terms of build quality, if you go back to the e36 this was far superior to any current generation BMW and whilst the e46 deteriorated slightly when compared to the e36, when compared to their current offerings the quality was much better overall.

[Baldchap]

kiseca said:

Baldchap said:

ffhard said:

Part of the problem is ... the rest are petrols bought by people who can just afford to buy them but can't then afford to maintain them.

Sounds to me like you don't see much of the properly maintained end of the market, given that you're only seeing cars maintained on a shoestring. If everything you ever see has been maintained on the cheap, then you'd expect lots of issues.

If he only saw cars maintained on the cheap, that would be a common factor across all brands. Yet he still notices that German brands give more problems than Japanese and Korean ones. That can't just be down to the maintenance then.

Read his post.

He specifically calls out petrol Audis as being maintained on the cheap. Which makes sense. Far more properly maintained premium cars will go to dealerships than those at the bottom of the market, so an independent garage will only see the premium cars maintained on a budget.

[nickfrog]

jakesmith said:

I’ve had 4 Porsches, they are fantastic cars to drive and look at but many models, like a lot of cars, are riddled with weak points, design faults, expensive common repairs, and catastrophic failure points. The parts and labour are much more expensive than normal cars. If you go to Porsche they’ll charge you over £1k for discs and pads all round on a Boxster

But you don't need to. Indies will do it for a fraction of that as it is 1 hour labour per axle and the parts can be sourced very cheaply. But I agree with you overall, some annoying weak points like condensers, front fans, etc... Small price to pay though as if you buy wisely, the low depreciation more than makes up for it and afaik catastrophic failures have stopped with the 981.

[kiseca]

Baldchap said:

kiseca said:

Baldchap said:

ffhard said:

Part of the problem is ... the rest are petrols bought by people who can just afford to buy them but can't then afford to maintain them.

Sounds to me like you don't see much of the properly maintained end of the market, given that you're only seeing cars maintained on a shoestring. If everything you ever see has been maintained on the cheap, then you'd expect lots of issues.

If he only saw cars maintained on the cheap, that would be a common factor across all brands. Yet he still notices that German brands give more problems than Japanese and Korean ones. That can't just be down to the maintenance then.

Read his post.

He specifically calls out petrol Audis as being maintained on the cheap. Which makes sense. Far more properly maintained premium cars will go to dealerships than those at the bottom of the market, so an independent garage will only see the premium cars maintained on a budget.

It was the way you'd worded your response that I was reacting to, but yes, you're right, the way he's written his original post does sound like he's comparing all Jap cars to only poorly maintained German ones.

[swisstoni]

I don’t know how far back the JD Power thing looks per car, but it’s quite possible for a car to lead a faultless life for the first 3 years and serve up a crippling bill circa 4yrs/40k miles.

Most likely to poor old owner No.2

[xjay1337]

av185 said:

xjay1337 said:

I don't see how anyone can defend Porsche build / quality
How many Boxsters and 911's do we hear about with MAJOR problems.

All cars have faults. Of course. I completely understand that. Common things to look out for.
But rarely do these have such catastrophic problems such as Porsche.

I'll just leave these here:





Also in terms of build quality, if you go back to the e36 this was far superior to any current generation BMW and whilst the e46 deteriorated slightly when compared to the e36, when compared to their current offerings the quality was much better overall.

That doesn't prove anything though. Just how new cars are.....

I doubt any Boxster or Cayman in 2008 had IMS/Bore Scoring/ etc issues within the first 3-5 years.

I also disagree regarding E36 build quality, but i suppose that is a matter of opinion.

[anonymous-user]

They say nearly 98% of Porsches made in the last 25 years are still on the road.

IMS, bore scores is a design fault, but it actually only affects a small percentage of cars, something like 5%.

The stories you hear are from issues with some cars and that get perpetuated throughout buyers guides and word of mouth.

The above is hardly solace if your 997 has just seized its engine, but generalisations and lazy stereotypes are never good to parrot if you dont know what you're on about.

[swisstoni]

Oppo said:

They say nearly 98% of Porsches made in the last 25 years are still on the road.

IMS, bore scores is a design fault, but it actually only affects a small percentage of cars, something like 5%.

The stories you hear are from issues with some cars and that get perpetuated throughout buyers guides and word of mouth.

The above is hardly solace if your 997 has just seized its engine, but generalisations and lazy stereotypes are never good to parrot if you dont know what you're on about.

When I was looking at 997.1’s some time ago, the fact that a very well known Porsche Indy wouldn’t touch them at all was all I needed to know at the time.

[Court_S]

av185 said:

Also in terms of build quality, if you go back to the e36 this was far superior to any current generation BMW and whilst the e46 deteriorated slightly when compared to the e36, when compared to their current offerings the quality was much better overall.

Having owned both an E46 and an E90, the E46 felt like a better built car (heavier doors, just generally felt more solid etc) but in reality, the E90 was a much better quality car to own with far fewer inherent issues - i.e. the cooling system on the E90 actually worked, it didn't eat suspension components.

[Baldchap]

Oppo said:

They say nearly 98% of Porsches made in the last 25 years are still on the road.

Go on... Let me guess: The other 2% made it back home?

[kiseca]

Oppo said:

They say nearly 98% of Porsches made in the last 25 years are still on the road.

IMS, bore scores is a design fault, but it actually only affects a small percentage of cars, something like 5%.

The stories you hear are from issues with some cars and that get perpetuated throughout buyers guides and word of mouth.

The above is hardly solace if your 997 has just seized its engine, but generalisations and lazy stereotypes are never good to parrot if you dont know what you're on about.

For a fault on a car, particularly for a fault that causes a castrophic engine failure, 5% is a huge amount. It also depends where your source is. I've heard that 1 in 6 996s and 986s will either need IMS replacing or suffer IMS failure.

Whatever number is the right one, as inherent car problems go, the weak IMS is relatively common.

[anonymous-user]

swisstoni said:

Oppo said:

They say nearly 98% of Porsches made in the last 25 years are still on the road.

IMS, bore scores is a design fault, but it actually only affects a small percentage of cars, something like 5%.

The stories you hear are from issues with some cars and that get perpetuated throughout buyers guides and word of mouth.

The above is hardly solace if your 997 has just seized its engine, but generalisations and lazy stereotypes are never good to parrot if you dont know what you're on about.

When I was looking at 997.1’s some time ago, the fact that a very well known Porsche Indy wouldn’t touch them at all was all I needed to know at the time.

Not really. It's just being risk averse. It's all money isn't it, they're not in it for fun. Its a business. They could get bad 997s and good 997s.

It's the same as the poster on here moaning that WBAC offering about 6k for their 997. They'll take it, but they have factor in the what ifs. What ifs dont always happen.

[swisstoni]

Oppo said:

swisstoni said:

Oppo said:

They say nearly 98% of Porsches made in the last 25 years are still on the road.

IMS, bore scores is a design fault, but it actually only affects a small percentage of cars, something like 5%.

The stories you hear are from issues with some cars and that get perpetuated throughout buyers guides and word of mouth.

The above is hardly solace if your 997 has just seized its engine, but generalisations and lazy stereotypes are never good to parrot if you dont know what you're on about.

When I was looking at 997.1’s some time ago, the fact that a very well known Porsche Indy wouldn’t touch them at all was all I needed to know at the time.

Not really. It's just being risk averse. It's all money isn't it, they're not in it for fun. Its a business. They could get bad 997s and good 997s.

It's the same as the poster on here moaning that WBAC offering about 6k for their 997. They'll take it, but they have factor in the what ifs. What ifs dont always happen.

In this particular case it was more of a ‘when’ than a ‘what if’.