Re : TVR appoints new CEO; laments factory issues
Discussion
MarJay said:
Something worth noting...
My understanding of the original delay was that the Welsh Government own a 5% stake in TVR as it stands now. Due to EU fairness rules, the company had to put out a tender for construction of the factory and make it available to construction companies across the EU so they can bid.
One assumes that the people who got the job went and screwed it up. So this is not about surveys or anything like that, this is about a contractor who messed up. I don't know who the contractor is/was or whether they are the ones fixing it, but it's worth noting this in the thread.
(P.S. I don't want this to turn into a pro/anti EU rant so let's just leave those comments out right now).
You just made all that up didn't you!? not an ounce of fact?My understanding of the original delay was that the Welsh Government own a 5% stake in TVR as it stands now. Due to EU fairness rules, the company had to put out a tender for construction of the factory and make it available to construction companies across the EU so they can bid.
One assumes that the people who got the job went and screwed it up. So this is not about surveys or anything like that, this is about a contractor who messed up. I don't know who the contractor is/was or whether they are the ones fixing it, but it's worth noting this in the thread.
(P.S. I don't want this to turn into a pro/anti EU rant so let's just leave those comments out right now).
If the roof needed repairing/replacing then that would have been highlighted in the initial condition survey, way back when, and prior to the tender being compiled, then included in the schedule of works when the bidding commenced.
If during the course of any works the contractor was not following the specification then it would have been picked up by the clients representative and dealt with at the time.
Have the tendered works even commenced yet?
MarJay said:
Something worth noting...
My understanding of the original delay was that the Welsh Government own a 5% stake in TVR as it stands now. Due to EU fairness rules, the company had to put out a tender for construction of the factory and make it available to construction companies across the EU so they can bid.
One assumes that the people who got the job went and screwed it up. So this is not about surveys or anything like that, this is about a contractor who messed up. I don't know who the contractor is/was or whether they are the ones fixing it, but it's worth noting this in the thread.
(P.S. I don't want this to turn into a pro/anti EU rant so let's just leave those comments out right now).
A very good point - that was overlooked in the initial project apparently.My understanding of the original delay was that the Welsh Government own a 5% stake in TVR as it stands now. Due to EU fairness rules, the company had to put out a tender for construction of the factory and make it available to construction companies across the EU so they can bid.
One assumes that the people who got the job went and screwed it up. So this is not about surveys or anything like that, this is about a contractor who messed up. I don't know who the contractor is/was or whether they are the ones fixing it, but it's worth noting this in the thread.
(P.S. I don't want this to turn into a pro/anti EU rant so let's just leave those comments out right now).
Another point to note is that it's not actually TVR owning the building, the Welsh government are the owners and refurbing it for lease... So presumably it's their balls-up that means they haven't surveyed it properly, and delayed getting it sorted.
This is the contract notice isues by the Welsh Givernment:
Title: Factory Refurbishment @ Rassau Ind Est, Ebbw Vale
Published by: Welsh Government
Publication Date: 18/06/2018
Deadline Date: 16/07/2018
Deadline Time: 12:00
Notice Type: 02 Contract Notice
Has Documents: No
Has ESPD: No
Abstract: The Welsh Government is seeking to appoint a Contractor to design and construct the refurbishment works to an existing factory unit Rassau Industrial Estate in Ebbw Vale. Works comprise demolition of some existing structures and concrete plinths; repairs to foul and surface water drainage; weatherproofing and refurbishment of the building fabric; soft strip and reinstatement of new office and sanitary facilities, fire separation works and repairs to existing concrete floors.
CPV: 45453100, 44112000, 45110000, 45111100.
The bit that caught my eye was: repairs to foul and surface water drainage; weatherproofing and refurbishment of the building fabric
Weatherproofing you would have thought would cover a waterproof roof....
But it was Capita :-(
https://www.capitaproperty.co.uk/insight/news/2018...
Title: Factory Refurbishment @ Rassau Ind Est, Ebbw Vale
Published by: Welsh Government
Publication Date: 18/06/2018
Deadline Date: 16/07/2018
Deadline Time: 12:00
Notice Type: 02 Contract Notice
Has Documents: No
Has ESPD: No
Abstract: The Welsh Government is seeking to appoint a Contractor to design and construct the refurbishment works to an existing factory unit Rassau Industrial Estate in Ebbw Vale. Works comprise demolition of some existing structures and concrete plinths; repairs to foul and surface water drainage; weatherproofing and refurbishment of the building fabric; soft strip and reinstatement of new office and sanitary facilities, fire separation works and repairs to existing concrete floors.
CPV: 45453100, 44112000, 45110000, 45111100.
The bit that caught my eye was: repairs to foul and surface water drainage; weatherproofing and refurbishment of the building fabric
Weatherproofing you would have thought would cover a waterproof roof....
But it was Capita :-(
https://www.capitaproperty.co.uk/insight/news/2018...
Edited by oilit on Thursday 23 January 14:51
oilit said:
But it was Capita :-(
https://www.capitaproperty.co.uk/insight/news/2018...
Ah, if Crapita are involved in any way....... good luck. Look at their track record.https://www.capitaproperty.co.uk/insight/news/2018...
Edited by oilit on Thursday 23 January 14:51
Not good.
As otheres have intimated, it's all gone a bit far now to succeed.
Anyone remember Hesketh motorcycles?
And Norton - more re-incarnations than any other company.
The welsh assembly are not providing a car factory, they are simply providing a refitted industrial unit for lease to TVR.
It will be up to the occupier to fit it out to suit their needs.Such the same with any other company leasing a unit.
Clearly the bid was to make the unit watertight, so if that is not the case then TVR would be shouting from the rooftops that the unit is not being supplied fit for purpose, and blaming the supplier, ie the welsh assembly, which is not the message that is being conveyed, the claim seems to be its only now it has been found a new roof was needed which no one from tvr was remotely aware of up until this point?
Again very odd, as their fit out supplier as well as tvr would have been visiting during the refurb in order to plan installation of the specific kit needed to actually build cars......
edit. Just spotted the date of that press release 22nd Jan, so its not even started yet! so at a guess middle of the year before the shell is handed over at the earliest, then no doubt another 6 months to kit it out ready for production, 6 months after that before mock up trials are completed, staff recruited and trained and actual units start being assembled?
I doubt TVR have even started getting bids for all the sub assemblies needed to actually build the production version, then they, being an unknown quantity they will have to pay up front for at least the first 100 units of components, so say £50k per car, that is £5 mill plus the cost to fit it out, that's another £1 mill at least, so min of £6 mill, the deposits are not going to put much of a dent in that.
Have tvr been in hibernation, and waiting until the keys are handed over before they have even thought about taking a poke inside and measuring up for curtains?
It will be up to the occupier to fit it out to suit their needs.Such the same with any other company leasing a unit.
Clearly the bid was to make the unit watertight, so if that is not the case then TVR would be shouting from the rooftops that the unit is not being supplied fit for purpose, and blaming the supplier, ie the welsh assembly, which is not the message that is being conveyed, the claim seems to be its only now it has been found a new roof was needed which no one from tvr was remotely aware of up until this point?
Again very odd, as their fit out supplier as well as tvr would have been visiting during the refurb in order to plan installation of the specific kit needed to actually build cars......
edit. Just spotted the date of that press release 22nd Jan, so its not even started yet! so at a guess middle of the year before the shell is handed over at the earliest, then no doubt another 6 months to kit it out ready for production, 6 months after that before mock up trials are completed, staff recruited and trained and actual units start being assembled?
I doubt TVR have even started getting bids for all the sub assemblies needed to actually build the production version, then they, being an unknown quantity they will have to pay up front for at least the first 100 units of components, so say £50k per car, that is £5 mill plus the cost to fit it out, that's another £1 mill at least, so min of £6 mill, the deposits are not going to put much of a dent in that.
Have tvr been in hibernation, and waiting until the keys are handed over before they have even thought about taking a poke inside and measuring up for curtains?
Edited by PAUL500 on Thursday 23 January 15:32
Kenny Powers said:
No one said it was. That's exactly the point.
+1 So what can you do while kicking your heels with a car ready to go, waiting for the builders to turn up? Sub the first few out to a specialist or find smaller, temporary, rented premises and use some of your own engineers to get a trickle of cars going before the bigger plant comes on stream.
We're not talking Honda or Nisan here, we aren't even talking Mclaren or Aston Martin, more Atom or Radical sized outfits. Couldn't they even start a batch going from say Hi-Tech Automotive in South Africa to get some product on the roads and generate cash-flow?
It all has a whiff of running out of investment and I'm 100% behind the return of the marque.
Edited by cookie1600 on Thursday 23 January 15:20
I've worked with Jim Berriman before, at a marketing consultancy firm, and can honestly say TVR have a top-notch fella in there to do the business.
Only time will tell, of course, if he has the power to be able to get this thing off the ground. What I can say is it won't be without trying. A little faith is required. Along with a pot of money to fix the roof. Perhaps Nick Knowles and his team can fix it?!
Only time will tell, of course, if he has the power to be able to get this thing off the ground. What I can say is it won't be without trying. A little faith is required. Along with a pot of money to fix the roof. Perhaps Nick Knowles and his team can fix it?!
cookie1600 said:
+1
So what can you do while kicking your heels with a car ready to go, waiting for the builders to turn up? Sub the first few out to a specialist or find smaller, temporary, rented premises and use some of your own engineers to get a trickle of cars going before the bigger plant comes on stream.
We're not talking Honda or Nisan here, we aren't even talking Mclaren or Aston Martin, more Atom or Radical sized outfits. Couldn't they even start a batch going from say Hi-Tech Automotive in South Africa to get some product on the roads and generate cash-flow?
It all has a whiff of running out of investment and I'm 100% behind the return of the marque.
But are they actually "ready to go" and build a car, even in small quantities ? The article seems to suggest that there is only the 1 car in existence. It doesn't sound like this has had any testing or development work done to it, crash testing, hot and cold testing etc... I've never seen any "spy pics" of any other cars - it sounds like they have only just concluded a deal on a new engine ( which will have to be engineered to fit and tested, I assume ).So what can you do while kicking your heels with a car ready to go, waiting for the builders to turn up? Sub the first few out to a specialist or find smaller, temporary, rented premises and use some of your own engineers to get a trickle of cars going before the bigger plant comes on stream.
We're not talking Honda or Nisan here, we aren't even talking Mclaren or Aston Martin, more Atom or Radical sized outfits. Couldn't they even start a batch going from say Hi-Tech Automotive in South Africa to get some product on the roads and generate cash-flow?
It all has a whiff of running out of investment and I'm 100% behind the return of the marque.
Edited by cookie1600 on Thursday 23 January 15:20
They may well be holding off doing any of this, which involves spending a lot of money, until they have made more progress on the factory but it does feel that they are quite a long time from actually having a car to deliver to anyone. Not sure about this one....
The Donster said:
I've worked with Jim Berriman before, at a marketing consultancy firm, and can honestly say TVR have a top-notch fella in there to do the business.
Only time will tell, of course, if he has the power to be able to get this thing off the ground. What I can say is it won't be without trying. A little faith is required. Along with a pot of money to fix the roof. Perhaps Nick Knowles and his team can fix it?!
Recent history is instructive in this though.Only time will tell, of course, if he has the power to be able to get this thing off the ground. What I can say is it won't be without trying. A little faith is required. Along with a pot of money to fix the roof. Perhaps Nick Knowles and his team can fix it?!
As good as Berriman is, if the company screws up, it's not happening. There was a whole team of very, very talented people - many with bright, shiny careers at JLR etc. - who moved to Dyson, only for him to s
tcan the whole car project.If Capita have only just been appointed then I doubt any detail design or real bid works has even started yet, so add another 6 months to the timescale I listed, before anyone even turns up with a portaloo and a digger!
So whats that, end of Jan 2022? will Ford even still be making Coyote engines by then?
No mention of TVR in the Capita notice, seems they are just managing a speculative refurb on behalf of the Welsh assembly who need to tart up the whole site anyway to try to attract anyone at all there.
So whats that, end of Jan 2022? will Ford even still be making Coyote engines by then?
No mention of TVR in the Capita notice, seems they are just managing a speculative refurb on behalf of the Welsh assembly who need to tart up the whole site anyway to try to attract anyone at all there.
Edited by PAUL500 on Thursday 23 January 15:48
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