The perfect match of engine and manual gearbox
Discussion
9k rpm said:
100% agree with this.
Best manual gearbox I’ve ever used and perfectly matched to the glorious high revving engine. Change up from red line in 2nd and you were instantly above 6krpm in third and right in the vtec powerband.
This is it. Thread over. Amazing gearbox and engine. Add to the list DC2 Teggy , EP3 Civic . CH1 Accord Type R (which doesn't drop out of powerband if you know what you're doing). Basically Honda have this nailed. Best manual gearbox I’ve ever used and perfectly matched to the glorious high revving engine. Change up from red line in 2nd and you were instantly above 6krpm in third and right in the vtec powerband.
Porsche 981 Spyder / GT4 - gearbox gets slated for high ratios but actually its lovely to use and works perfectly with the engine. Prefer 6 speed to later 7 speed Porsche boxes and 981 is lighter and shorter throw than 996/997/991 & less awkward than 993 and earlier. Its the sweet spot and I guess that would apply to a 991.1 GTS (not a turbo 7 speed .2)
Lotus Exige S3 with exposed change, esp in the 430CUP is sublime as is any Elise S1 with well set up linkages and 160 bhp.
A good MX5 NA
Ford GT40 Superformance continuation
These are the best manual cars & engine combo's I have owned or driven. Generally most BMW M Car's are poor in comparison to above having owned a few. Ferrari's have nice engines but gearboxes are clonky when cold and just OK to use once you get over the excitement of the open gate. Would not rate Audi RS4 gearbox either. Would also give most Honda Type R's an honourable mention, including the Accord.
Lotus Exige S3 with exposed change, esp in the 430CUP is sublime as is any Elise S1 with well set up linkages and 160 bhp.
A good MX5 NA
Ford GT40 Superformance continuation
These are the best manual cars & engine combo's I have owned or driven. Generally most BMW M Car's are poor in comparison to above having owned a few. Ferrari's have nice engines but gearboxes are clonky when cold and just OK to use once you get over the excitement of the open gate. Would not rate Audi RS4 gearbox either. Would also give most Honda Type R's an honourable mention, including the Accord.
Edited by Bispal on Friday 31st January 15:42
Whilst I haven't driven either I've always liked the idea of the Noble M600 with its manual gearbox, and the BMW 850CSi and its manual gearbox.
Stuff I've owned...
I liked my Cerbera 4.5 and its manual gearbox.
I also like my 370Z and its manual gearbox.
E92 M3 had a great engine but a poor manual gearbox.
Z4M had a great engine but a terrible manual gearbox.
Stuff I've owned...
I liked my Cerbera 4.5 and its manual gearbox.
I also like my 370Z and its manual gearbox.
E92 M3 had a great engine but a poor manual gearbox.
Z4M had a great engine but a terrible manual gearbox.
Surely the answer is pretty much any performance car made before this fashion of putting automatics in everything? Back in the 1980s, and much of the 90s too, the notion of Ferrari or Porsche launching a sports car with an automatic gearbox was completely alien. When cars like the NSX and 993 Porsche became available with auto boxes in the mid 90s, they were a minority peculiarity; the cars you always found cheap in the classifieds because nobody wanted them.
RobM77 said:
Surely the answer is pretty much any performance car made before this fashion of putting automatics in everything? Back in the 1980s, and much of the 90s too, the notion of Ferrari or Porsche launching a sports car with an automatic gearbox was completely alien. When cars like the NSX and 993 Porsche became available with auto boxes in the mid 90s, they were a minority peculiarity; the cars you always found cheap in the classifieds because nobody wanted them.
Yep throw the NSX in there too. I drove an NA2 which was sublime. I think we should consider tactility too. What use is a lovely gearbox when you've got to waggle a bit of cheap plastic....
Leftfootwonder said:
RobM77 said:
Surely the answer is pretty much any performance car made before this fashion of putting automatics in everything? Back in the 1980s, and much of the 90s too, the notion of Ferrari or Porsche launching a sports car with an automatic gearbox was completely alien. When cars like the NSX and 993 Porsche became available with auto boxes in the mid 90s, they were a minority peculiarity; the cars you always found cheap in the classifieds because nobody wanted them.
Yep throw the NSX in there too. I drove an NA2 which was sublime. I think we should consider tactility too. What use is a lovely gearbox when you've got to waggle a bit of cheap plastic....
I drove a very late model 3.2 with a 6 speed manual and it was a lovely, lovely car. There's no question I'd buy one if I had the means. Other highlights for me, out of the cars I've driven are:
- S2000 gearbox and engine, although sadly I didn't get on with the rest of the car - it felt too disconnected and squidgy to me compared to the MX5 and MR2.
- Mk1 MR2 - a brilliant engine and gearbox combo. Very revvy engine and super short shift gearstick right by the steering wheel. I owned one in my early 20s for a few years and loved it.
- Caterham R300 (original k series on roller barrel throttles) with the 6 speed box. Certainly the most dramatic and interesting 4 cyl road car engine I've tried.
- My MGB GT V8 with a Sierra Cosworth T5 gearbox - a total surprise to me when I bought it, but one of the very best manual gearboxes I've ever used, and the engine sounds lovely.
- The Formula Ford based cars I used to race were lovely with the Hewland 4 speed box. I didn't care as much for the 5 speeder fitted to early Formula Renaults, which I also raced - too easy to get the wrong gear without a self centering spring, but the 4 speed as fitted to the FFs was nice.
e39 M5 - works well for me
the MX5 - most generations
the 1969 MGB roadster I had - with a race-prepped engine and manual gear box with overdrive - neat, simple, precise and a bit of a hooligan
R8 v10
worst I have ever driven was a Series IIa Land Rover diesel - with a gear stick that revolved as you touched it, so you never quite knew which direction to push it to get any gear - not that it made a huge amount of difference
the MX5 - most generations
the 1969 MGB roadster I had - with a race-prepped engine and manual gear box with overdrive - neat, simple, precise and a bit of a hooligan
R8 v10
worst I have ever driven was a Series IIa Land Rover diesel - with a gear stick that revolved as you touched it, so you never quite knew which direction to push it to get any gear - not that it made a huge amount of difference
Toymad said:
From my limited experience:
DC2 Integra Type R. It seemed to suck the lever into the next gear with just a flick of the stick and chasing revs on that engine was a total joy. Bonkers noise.
B7 RS4, chasing the revs and stirring the box yourself is fantastic but maybe because it is more "sophisticated" the thrills are more to do with the speed and less to do with the viseral experience and assault on the senses the Honda gave.
DC2 I came here to say and couldn't agree with you more. An absolute knockout.DC2 Integra Type R. It seemed to suck the lever into the next gear with just a flick of the stick and chasing revs on that engine was a total joy. Bonkers noise.
B7 RS4, chasing the revs and stirring the box yourself is fantastic but maybe because it is more "sophisticated" the thrills are more to do with the speed and less to do with the viseral experience and assault on the senses the Honda gave.
Your points on the B7 are more true today then when the cars were new (if you can find one that isn't completely knackered). The drivetrain is even more exciting in the face of smaller, turbo, automatics.
P-Jay said:
I won't be popular but, a Dual-Clutch with anything.
Yeah manual blah blah blah "Well oiled rifle"
Autos are lethargic, all those Sequential semi-auto Manuals from the 2000s were a bit so-so at the time but bloody horrible in hindsight.
I bought an automatic BMW, I wish I had a manual and my next car will be one but I am guessing you havent driven anything with the ZF 8 speed if you think its lethargic, it can change gear way quicker than me, it kicks down when you need to overtake and is generally bloody brilliant compared to the autos of old, the three speed dopey things.Yeah manual blah blah blah "Well oiled rifle"
Autos are lethargic, all those Sequential semi-auto Manuals from the 2000s were a bit so-so at the time but bloody horrible in hindsight.
manuals are great if you need that extra level of engagement and control, if you arent bothered go auto or DCT.
Rover 200 BRM had a nice gearbox and quite a nice NA engine.
350Z had a nice chunky change and a half decent, if not all that fast V6.
944, gear change is ok but most need the linkage sorting before they are any good I found.
Old RWD Fords always had lovely gearboxes, less lovely engines but did the job.
Agree with the Hewland 4 speed in a single seater
Quaife QBE15Z behind a 9,000 rpm Zetec E
Metro 6R4 with the Manual and V6
Ferrari 355 with the open gate
Interested in experiences of Drenth DG400 (seq/man) behind an S85B80 BMW V10. Is this better than a Quaife QBE69G?
Also anyone feedback on a Fezza GT4C Lusso v12.
Range Rover Sport SDV6 3.0 with the 8 Speed Auto -- nice!
Quaife QBE15Z behind a 9,000 rpm Zetec E
Metro 6R4 with the Manual and V6
Ferrari 355 with the open gate
Interested in experiences of Drenth DG400 (seq/man) behind an S85B80 BMW V10. Is this better than a Quaife QBE69G?
Also anyone feedback on a Fezza GT4C Lusso v12.
Range Rover Sport SDV6 3.0 with the 8 Speed Auto -- nice!
Of the cars I have owned;
1). Civic Type R EP3. Supple, delicate and smooth as silk whilst plodding.. progressing to almost telepathic once pressing on. Just glorious. My wife’s favourite too!
2). Manual 911 GT3.. the noise and satisfaction from achieving a perfectly timed heel n toe. My wife has never driven this car!
3). Might be a left field choice due to the slightly uninspiring V6, but I found the manual shift in my 350z a delight to operate; in fact I’d often finding myself stirring ratios just for pleasure. An official Nismo shifter makes a difference.
1). Civic Type R EP3. Supple, delicate and smooth as silk whilst plodding.. progressing to almost telepathic once pressing on. Just glorious. My wife’s favourite too!
2). Manual 911 GT3.. the noise and satisfaction from achieving a perfectly timed heel n toe. My wife has never driven this car!
3). Might be a left field choice due to the slightly uninspiring V6, but I found the manual shift in my 350z a delight to operate; in fact I’d often finding myself stirring ratios just for pleasure. An official Nismo shifter makes a difference.
Zf 5-18/3 for manual choice - very satisfying with dog leg first. When paired with Maseratis v6 it was very slick and didn’t need a heavy shift knob. Who needs more than 5 gears anyway.
Zf hp8 for auto choice - just seems to work so well in every application.
Tremec 3160 for second manual choice. Designed for the gt350
Zf hp8 for auto choice - just seems to work so well in every application.
Tremec 3160 for second manual choice. Designed for the gt350
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