RE: BMW X3 M Competition vs. Jaguar F-Pace SVR

[RacerMike]

LucyP said:

The problem with the F-Pace is that things don't work properly. The handling is good and the performance is great, and the engine sounds angry, which is fine, but there is more to a car day to day than that

You'll find most of the issues you have are actually all very logical. You might feel like it's random, but the handbook has the conditions for driver exit/auto stop/start. In summary (taken from the online owner manual here ( https://www.ownerinfo.jaguar.com/document/4A/2019/...):

AUTOMATIC TRANSMISSION:
If Drive (D), Sport (S), or Neutral (N) is selected, the driver exit feature switches the vehicle’s ignition off when the following conditions exist:

• The driver’s seat belt is unbuckled, and:

• The brake pedal is released.

• If Park (P) is selected, the driver exit feature switches the vehicle’s ignition off when the driver's seat belt is unbuckled.

MANUAL TRANSMISSION:
The driver exit feature switches the vehicle’s ignition off if the following conditions exist:

• The driver’s seat belt is unbuckled, and:

• The driver’s door is opened.

So to run through the scenarios you describe:

LucyP said:

You are in the middle of closing the roof blind, because it's a sunny day and you don't want the sun beating into a parked car. Your passenger pulls their door handle to get out, and it cuts the power and stops the roof blind closing, so you have to put the ignition back on to finish the job.

This is likely because you had your seatbelt unbuckled. Opening a door will turn off the ignition.

LucyP said:

You stop the car, put it in park and the handbrake on, and sometimes it shuts down totally and saves you the job. You pull the door handle, press the lock button on the outside handle and walk away. Sometimes, you have to press the stop/start button to shut it down. Sometimes it has shut down automatically, but it doesn't seem to have done so. You press the stop/start and the engine fires up again. Sometimes, it seems to have shut down, you pull the door handle and it fires up again.

All variance based on the conditions above. The car will turn the ignition off based on a combination of the drivers seat belt buckle, door and Park being selected.

LucyP said:

Sometimes you park the car and the sat-nav then takes forever to plan a route/work out where it is.

The Sat Nav is pretty rubbish

LucyP said:

Sometimes when you are trying to park and moving the rotary selector from D to R and back again it jams for no reason and won't let you move out of D.

The gear selector needs to see brake pressure for it to unlock R (to make sure you don't accidentally select 'R' whilst driving forward). To quote the manual:

• If pressure is applied to the gear selector before the brake pedal is pressed, the selected gear may not be available. In this situation, remove pressure from the gear selector, make sure that the brake pedal is pressed, and then select the required gear again.

Appreciate it may all seem illogical, but there's good reason for many of the things you notice, and the majority of other cars behave in a similar fashion.

[gizlaroc]

I had never heard of Big Rob before, but not going to forget him now.

He is definitely going on the PH spreadsheet, I reckon he might have jumped straight into a top 10 place as well.

Absolute top dribbling Rob, top dribbling.

[Gitwhoismiserable]

gizlaroc said:

I had never heard of Big Rob before, but not going to forget him now.

He is definitely going on the PH spreadsheet, I reckon he might have jumped straight into a top 10 place as well.

Absolute top dribbling Rob, top dribbling.

What is this PH spreadsheet you speak of, I want in

[DonkeyApple]

Gitwhoismiserable said:

gizlaroc said:

I had never heard of Big Rob before, but not going to forget him now.

He is definitely going on the PH spreadsheet, I reckon he might have jumped straight into a top 10 place as well.

Absolute top dribbling Rob, top dribbling.

What is this PH spreadsheet you speak of, I want in

Dude, you can’t just get on a list because you want it. You need to prove worthiness.

Maybe some YouTube videos of you shouting at pigeons or punching a duck might be enough? Do you have any experience of dominating landings? Unable to tell the difference between a small cow that is close to you and a large cow that is further away?

[gizlaroc]

Gitwhoismiserable said:

gizlaroc said:

I had never heard of Big Rob before, but not going to forget him now.

He is definitely going on the PH spreadsheet, I reckon he might have jumped straight into a top 10 place as well.

Absolute top dribbling Rob, top dribbling.

What is this PH spreadsheet you speak of, I want in

With such eloquent quoting you will be on there in no time at all.

[The Wookie]

RacerMike said:

LucyP said:

The problem with the F-Pace is that things don't work properly. The handling is good and the performance is great, and the engine sounds angry, which is fine, but there is more to a car day to day than that

You'll find most of the issues you have are actually all very logical. You might feel like it's random, but the handbook has the conditions for driver exit/auto stop/start. In summary (taken from the online owner manual here ( https://www.ownerinfo.jaguar.com/document/4A/2019/...):

AUTOMATIC TRANSMISSION:
If Drive (D), Sport (S), or Neutral (N) is selected, the driver exit feature switches the vehicle’s ignition off when the following conditions exist:

• The driver’s seat belt is unbuckled, and:

• The brake pedal is released.

• If Park (P) is selected, the driver exit feature switches the vehicle’s ignition off when the driver's seat belt is unbuckled.

MANUAL TRANSMISSION:
The driver exit feature switches the vehicle’s ignition off if the following conditions exist:

• The driver’s seat belt is unbuckled, and:

• The driver’s door is opened.

So to run through the scenarios you describe:

LucyP said:

You are in the middle of closing the roof blind, because it's a sunny day and you don't want the sun beating into a parked car. Your passenger pulls their door handle to get out, and it cuts the power and stops the roof blind closing, so you have to put the ignition back on to finish the job.

This is likely because you had your seatbelt unbuckled. Opening a door will turn off the ignition.

LucyP said:

You stop the car, put it in park and the handbrake on, and sometimes it shuts down totally and saves you the job. You pull the door handle, press the lock button on the outside handle and walk away. Sometimes, you have to press the stop/start button to shut it down. Sometimes it has shut down automatically, but it doesn't seem to have done so. You press the stop/start and the engine fires up again. Sometimes, it seems to have shut down, you pull the door handle and it fires up again.

All variance based on the conditions above. The car will turn the ignition off based on a combination of the drivers seat belt buckle, door and Park being selected.

LucyP said:

Sometimes you park the car and the sat-nav then takes forever to plan a route/work out where it is.

The Sat Nav is pretty rubbish

LucyP said:

Sometimes when you are trying to park and moving the rotary selector from D to R and back again it jams for no reason and won't let you move out of D.

The gear selector needs to see brake pressure for it to unlock R (to make sure you don't accidentally select 'R' whilst driving forward). To quote the manual:

• If pressure is applied to the gear selector before the brake pedal is pressed, the selected gear may not be available. In this situation, remove pressure from the gear selector, make sure that the brake pedal is pressed, and then select the required gear again.

Appreciate it may all seem illogical, but there's good reason for many of the things you notice, and the majority of other cars behave in a similar fashion.

I agree, every now and then the system will catch me out but it's usually logical. For example I've left the start stop on, I've stopped and put it in park while my gate opens, and instead of waiting until I'm parked on my drive I've undone my seatbelt while I'm stationary, the car then shuts down. Doh. I have to fire it up again. Or every now and then I'll get it the wrong way round and start it after it's shut down.

The only thing that does seem like a bit of an oversight is the panoramic roof closing. I don't have a pano roof on my Jag (raises the rear spring rate so the ride isn't as well matched) but the wife's Velar has. Had it literally 24 hours before I opened the door as the roof was closing and it stopped, so I had to restart the car to get it to finish!

[GT119]

J4CKO said:

FA57REN said:

GT119 said:

The X3M seems to be developing a reputation for heading for the scenery when driven beyond its capabilities, not really the cars fault though, more so that drivers are thinking they have bought an M3/4.

Yet BMW keep shoe-horning stupid amounts of power into the chassis. There is no rational reason to put 500hp in an X3. But because it's there, people will use it even if that puts them at eleven-tenths of their skill.

At some point the Power Wars will end but which manufacturer will be the responsible one to take the first step back.

To be fair, its not like the M3/M4 is immune from the odd hedge seeking moment, it is possibly the type of buyer rather than the car, plus they can be had on pretty competitive deals.

I don't think your average X3 diesel driver is transplanted into an X3M would become as overnight liability.

My guess is the extra weight at a higher COG and less progressive breakaway at the limit probably results in a very big moment when it all goes wrong, especially if the driver is inexperienced. The vlogger who was stuffed into the scenery in one seemed to think that the car lost control rather than having anything to do with the driver...

[tberg]

I don't care too much about hopped up SUVs, and admittedly I'm not much of a BMW fan, however, if you've never driven a 5.0L supercharged Jaguar engined vehicle, you're really missing something quite special. It is a source of grinning every time you step on the happy pedal and in SVR guise even moreso. And with a $600 pulley and tune, you can coax well over 600hp and a bottomless pit of torque. And that roar makes every ride a thrill. If rumors are correct, the Jag V8 will be replaced by a BMW twin turboed V8, where they'll have to put a fake soundtrack played through the radio speakers to make it sound exciting instead of the real thing. Rent an F-type R for a weekend or even pick up an older XKR for next to nothing and experience this glorious powerplant, you'll not be disappointed.

[Hol]

Which of them fits in an average car parking space, but still allows you to open the door without hitting the car in the next space when trying to squeeze out the door?

[Gitwhoismiserable]

DonkeyApple said:

Dude, you can’t just get on a list because you want it. You need to prove worthiness.

Maybe some YouTube videos of you shouting at pigeons or punching a duck might be enough? Do you have any experience of dominating landings? Unable to tell the difference between a small cow that is close to you and a large cow that is further away?

No idea what your on about

[Gitwhoismiserable]

gizlaroc said:

With such eloquent quoting you will be on there in no time at all.

No idea what your on about either

[DoubleD]

Hol said:

Which of them fits in an average car parking space, but still allows you to open the door without hitting the car in the next space when trying to squeeze out the door?

Well the X3 is no wider than a 5 series and is probably easier to get out of a tight space as well.

[nickfrog]

DoubleD said:

Well the X3 is no wider than a 5 series and is probably easier to get out of a tight space as well.

This. It is 10 inches shorter too.

[DP33]

Ride quality isn't given enough airtime - simply put, big rimmed quick BMWs ride badly - just changed the rubber on my wife's X3 35d from P Zeros to some less extreme Goodyears, hoping for a trade off in ride quality - sadly disappointed. Run flats are pretty horrid. I know M products avoid them but even so I've been sadly underwhelmed by the M cars I've driven recently on typical B roads. It's got to be JLR product for me next time they just work so much better here in the UK.

[ate one too]

Hol said:

Which of them fits in an average car parking space, but still allows you to open the door without hitting the car in the next space when trying to squeeze out the door?

The one driven by someone with eyes that work and a bit of common sense and care when parking.....

[DonkeyApple]

ate one too said:

Hol said:

Which of them fits in an average car parking space, but still allows you to open the door without hitting the car in the next space when trying to squeeze out the door?

The one driven by someone with eyes that work and a bit of common sense and care when parking.....

I think some people just get confused between height and width. I have fond memories of a spanner in a Merc that was a foot wide than my car and considerably longer being terribly confused by his issue with parking his behemoth next to my much smaller but taller car and then becoming visibly over emotional when it was pointed out to him that he was as thick as mince.

[sh33n]

DonkeyApple said:

I think some people just get confused between height and width. I have fond memories of a spanner in a Merc that was a foot wide than my car and considerably longer being terribly confused by his issue with parking his behemoth next to my much smaller but taller car and then becoming visibly over emotional when it was pointed out to him that he was as thick as mince.

I know what you mean on that. My X3M must be a touch wider and longer than my F80 M3 but still fits in my garage so we’re talking a couple of CM here.

The X3 is no M3 but the overall trade off is quite small when the benefits are balanced. I’ve warmed to mine far more than I thought I would as it was bought more for us to ferry kids about with a view of still being enjoyable for me and it ticks all those boxes.

Jag does look better, but I’ve not seen good things about Jag quality and I’ve had 6 BMWs on the bounce with no issues.

[Triumph Man]

Baddie said:

Billy_Whizzzz said:

I’ve got an X3MC and you’re possibly being over generous. The engine is uncharismatic, steering inert, ride shocking and looks ugly. But as a quick everyday rural hack it’s perfectly good enough. It’s a fast appliance and nothing more. Mine’s debadged because of course it’s not really deserving of an M badge. It’s also filthy as I simply don’t care enough about it to clean it.

Edited by Billy_Whizzzz on Saturday 1st February 06:34

Refreshingly blunt appraisal and in line with Evo’s opinion - rated 2/5. Shocking ride and anodyne engine

Did I read somewhere the engines in these (and the last M3) have a weird firing order for a 6 cylinder and as a result sound ste? Or something?

[Ares]

Triumph Man said:

Baddie said:

Billy_Whizzzz said:

I’ve got an X3MC and you’re possibly being over generous. The engine is uncharismatic, steering inert, ride shocking and looks ugly. But as a quick everyday rural hack it’s perfectly good enough. It’s a fast appliance and nothing more. Mine’s debadged because of course it’s not really deserving of an M badge. It’s also filthy as I simply don’t care enough about it to clean it.

Edited by Billy_Whizzzz on Saturday 1st February 06:34

Refreshingly blunt appraisal and in line with Evo’s opinion - rated 2/5. Shocking ride and anodyne engine

Did I read somewhere the engines in these (and the last M3) have a weird firing order for a 6 cylinder and as a result sound ste? Or something?

I think it's just the noise of brain cells exploding in the narrow minds of those people who are so uninterested in SUVs, they can't but help telling people how uninterested they are on every single SUV thread.

[sh33n]

Triumph Man said:

Did I read somewhere the engines in these (and the last M3) have a weird firing order for a 6 cylinder and as a result sound ste? Or something?

They don’t make a nice noise at all, neither does the F8x, yer quite loud but nice no. The new filters don’t help any marque, but I’m sure but BM are probably the worst in the sector for this.

Edited by sh33n on Wednesday 5th February 17:31

Edited by sh33n on Wednesday 5th February 17:32