End of petrol and hybrid
Discussion
otolith said:
There may be some applications which are harder to decarbonise than cars. Planes are also difficult. Some of the options which would be silly for cars (hydrogen, synfuels) may need to be used.
Good point. De-carbonising personal transport is an easier target (uber, shared, EV, public transport). But heavy goods, trade/industrial vehicles, long-distance, and cross-continent remain the elephant-in-the-room. Not an easy solution unless tax/carbon-offset becomes onerous and changes public behaviour.Nice to have a civil discussion - how non-PH
Evanivitch said:
skyrover said:
Yes, diesel electric. The diesel part is quite important.
That's okay, continue to ignore evidence when it's put Infront of you...Cant really see the local tree surgeon running a cable from the clients house to power his woodchipper, let alone a mile into the forest.
Running cables across construction sites a good idea? Will you have to install a fast charger before you can deliver your plant?
Meanwhile in the automobile world, recovery vehicles have started carrying these. Presumably because it's impractical to have flatbeds sitting in laybays.
Edited by skyrover on Thursday 20th February 06:40
skyrover said:
A few outlier showcase examples.
Cant really see the local tree surgeon running a cable from the clients house to power his woodchipper, let alone a mile into the forest.
Running cables across construction sites a good idea? Will you have to install a fast charger before you can deliver your plant?
Oh look, another moving of the goal posts by those in denial Cant really see the local tree surgeon running a cable from the clients house to power his woodchipper, let alone a mile into the forest.
Running cables across construction sites a good idea? Will you have to install a fast charger before you can deliver your plant?
Woodchopper is what, 6-7hp? About 5kW. The benefit of an electric motor is it's more responsive to loading than a petrol, so it doesn't need to run all the time. So even at 5kW for an 8 hour day a 40kWh would suffice, which would be covered by something like a Rivian using it's external power supply. But chances are you'd use less power unless you're running a whole cutting team feeding the one chipper.
Evanivitch said:
skyrover said:
A few outlier showcase examples.
Cant really see the local tree surgeon running a cable from the clients house to power his woodchipper, let alone a mile into the forest.
Running cables across construction sites a good idea? Will you have to install a fast charger before you can deliver your plant?
Oh look, another moving of the goal posts by those in denial Cant really see the local tree surgeon running a cable from the clients house to power his woodchipper, let alone a mile into the forest.
Running cables across construction sites a good idea? Will you have to install a fast charger before you can deliver your plant?
Woodchopper is what, 6-7hp? About 5kW. The benefit of an electric motor is it's more responsive to loading than a petrol, so it doesn't need to run all the time. So even at 5kW for an 8 hour day a 40kWh would suffice, which would be covered by something like a Rivian using it's external power supply. But chances are you'd use less power unless you're running a whole cutting team feeding the one chipper.
A small commercial woodchipper is around 35hp. Bigger ones, well over a hundred.
Very dangerous machines, you absolutely can not have trailing wires anywhere near it.
skyrover said:
Meanwhile in the automobile world, recovery vehicles have started carrying these. Presumably because it's impractical to have flatbeds sitting in laybays.
Ignorance is bliss!Edited by skyrover on Thursday 20th February 06:40
The new RAC breakdown vehicles use an uprated alternators off the main engine, and the AA are using battery packs.
https://www.whatcar.com/news/how-car-breakdown-ser...
Evanivitch said:
skyrover said:
Meanwhile in the automobile world, recovery vehicles have started carrying these. Presumably because it's impractical to have flatbeds sitting in laybays.
Ignorance is bliss!Edited by skyrover on Thursday 20th February 06:40
The new RAC breakdown vehicles use an uprated alternators off the main engine, and the AA are using battery packs.
https://www.whatcar.com/news/how-car-breakdown-ser...
We will be using fossil fuel to rescue electric vehicles for a long time to come.
Don't get me wrong. I think plant is one of the few examples that could really benefit with electric power, generally for the noise and fumes.
But battery technology is still terrible and it's not practical/possible to run cables in 90% of circumstances, so fossil fuel they will remain for foreseeable future.
But battery technology is still terrible and it's not practical/possible to run cables in 90% of circumstances, so fossil fuel they will remain for foreseeable future.
skyrover said:
Cant really see the local tree surgeon running a cable from the clients house to power his woodchipper, let alone a mile into the forest.
Best mate's a tree surgeon, he's switching his chainsaws to electric battery powered, reserving the dino-powered stuff for jobs that electric won't cut it. Main reasons being he's tired of the maintenance that goes along with fuel powered kit. This will be the primary reason that industry switches to electric trucks. Tesla Semi is just, better.
Won't be long before battery capacity and power output is suitable to ditch combustion tools entirely. Gotta love exponential improvement curves eh?
Edited by anonymous-user on Thursday 20th February 08:08
skyrover said:
Anyone considered plant?
DIgger's, bulldozers, wood chippers, dumpers, the list goes on and on.
Not practical to power them with electricity.
The genius is strong....DIgger's, bulldozers, wood chippers, dumpers, the list goes on and on.
Not practical to power them with electricity.
https://www.autoblog.com/2019/08/26/edumper-electr...
Even iff you take the 'saves 50,000te of diesel annually' with a pinch of salt.... its still rather good on the whole.
or Hybrid it up - but with HYDROGEN. https://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/infras...
Sam.M said:
skyrover said:
Cant really see the local tree surgeon running a cable from the clients house to power his woodchipper, let alone a mile into the forest.
Best mate's a tree surgeon, he's switching his chainsaws to electric battery powered, reserving the dino-powered stuff for jobs that electric won't cut it. Main reasons being he's tired of the maintenance that goes along with fuel powered kit. This will be the primary reason that industry switches to electric trucks. Tesla Semi is just, better.
Won't be long before battery capacity and power output is suitable to ditch combustion tools entirely. Gotta love exponential improvement curves eh?
Edited by Sam.M on Thursday 20th February 08:08
Evanivitch said:
skyrover said:
Meanwhile in the automobile world, recovery vehicles have started carrying these. Presumably because it's impractical to have flatbeds sitting in laybays.
Ignorance is bliss!Edited by skyrover on Thursday 20th February 06:40
The new RAC breakdown vehicles use an uprated alternators off the main engine, and the AA are using battery packs.
https://www.whatcar.com/news/how-car-breakdown-ser...
Edited by TheRainMaker on Thursday 20th February 18:44
TheRainMaker said:
Wow just reading that article, the AA attended 4000 EV breakdowns last year, for so few EV cars on the road that seems very high, I wonder if they included hybrids in that.
"Both the AA and the RAC acknowledge that with more electric vehicles on our roads, the likelihood of them running out of charge is increasing, so they’re working on ways to replenish their batteries. The AA says it attends around 3000 EV breakdowns a year, and this figure is rising rapidly. "3000, not 4000?
I can't get a figure for how many breakdowns they attended in total, but they say they attend one every 9 seconds (that would be 3.5 million) and also that their 2700 mechanics each attend more than 1200 breakdowns a year (that would be 3.24 million). Taking the lower figure, 3000 would be 0.09% of their breakdowns. At the end of 2018, ULEVs amounted to 0.5% of all licensed vehicles. That 0.5% breaks down into 0.28% plug in hybrids, 0.175% pure electric cars, 0.025% range extended electric cars, 0.02% "other".
0.09% of callouts on 0.175% of cars doesn't sound entirely unlikely, given that there are some common callouts that don't depend on the power source (ran out of fuel/charge, flat tyre, locked self out, non-powertrain mechanical failure)
otolith said:
"Both the AA and the RAC acknowledge that with more electric vehicles on our roads, the likelihood of them running out of charge is increasing, so they’re working on ways to replenish their batteries. The AA says it attends around 3000 EV breakdowns a year, and this figure is rising rapidly. "
3000, not 4000?
I can't get a figure for how many breakdowns they attended in total, but they say they attend one every 9 seconds (that would be 3.5 million) and also that their 2700 mechanics each attend more than 1200 breakdowns a year (that would be 3.24 million). Taking the lower figure, 3000 would be 0.09% of their breakdowns. At the end of 2018, ULEVs amounted to 0.5% of all licensed vehicles. That 0.5% breaks down into 0.28% plug in hybrids, 0.175% pure electric cars, 0.025% range extended electric cars, 0.02% "other".
0.09% of callouts on 0.175% of cars doesn't sound entirely unlikely, given that there are some common callouts that don't depend on the power source (ran out of fuel/charge, flat tyre, locked self out, non-powertrain mechanical failure)
Yep 3000, fat fingers on the phone.3000, not 4000?
I can't get a figure for how many breakdowns they attended in total, but they say they attend one every 9 seconds (that would be 3.5 million) and also that their 2700 mechanics each attend more than 1200 breakdowns a year (that would be 3.24 million). Taking the lower figure, 3000 would be 0.09% of their breakdowns. At the end of 2018, ULEVs amounted to 0.5% of all licensed vehicles. That 0.5% breaks down into 0.28% plug in hybrids, 0.175% pure electric cars, 0.025% range extended electric cars, 0.02% "other".
0.09% of callouts on 0.175% of cars doesn't sound entirely unlikely, given that there are some common callouts that don't depend on the power source (ran out of fuel/charge, flat tyre, locked self out, non-powertrain mechanical failure)
EV cars for me mean fully electric only, how many fully electric cars are on the UK roads at the moment?
I also agree it doesn't say the call outs are for drive train or battery-related problems, it just seems a high figure for what are brand new cars, most will be less than a year old.
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