End of petrol and hybrid

[Dave Hedgehog]

Miserablegit said:

I see Boris is now including hybrid vehicles in his plans to remove petrol vehicles from sale from 2035. There is to be a consultation but we all know consultations are a waste of time as the politicians do what they like anyway based on whatever is popular at that time.

After an EV owner said their car was scrap after 8 years I looked at battery warranties. Tesla give a warranty for 150,000 miles or 8 years. That effectively means a Tesla will be scrap after 8 years does it not?

Not particularly green. Ok for emissions at point of use.

No a Tesla will not be scrap after 8 years, Tesla guarantee the battery for 8 years... Statistics show the avg Tesla battery drops 5% capacity after 100k miles. The model 3 gen 3 battery has a design life of 500k miles (way beyond the car) but even after that they are still usable for static storage. The expected useful life is 25 years +. The next gen Tesla battery is being designed for 1m miles.

Hybrids are a crutch, generally worse at distance driving than an ICE car and defiantly worse than a BEV in city driving. The industry however loves them as they are easy to rig to pass emission targets, they continue to use the huge investment in engine and gearbox factories the industry has made and they are far more complex than traditional fossil cars so will continue to keep the service departments busy with servicing and expensive parts.

[anonymous-user]

Good that hybrid are included, most are a nonsense:-
“ All our hybrids automatically run on electric power alone when driving conditions permit, switching off the petrol engine and reducing fuel consumption and exhaust emissions to zero. ... And unlike all-electric cars, there's no need for the vehicle to be plugged into a power source to be recharged”
Where does that magic free electricity come from? Bonkers concept..

[SydneyBridge]

Piha said:

This hateful tory government cares not one jot for the British public.

Whoever voted for this evil cabal, just look at what you have done with your votes, shame on you....

and what do you reckon Corbyn would have done???
pedal cars only....

[Dave Hedgehog]

Silkyskills said:

I wonder what will happen to those of us with classic cars as the demand for petrol drops dramatically and so filling stations start to close en masse.

Petrol will be available for at least 50 years, there is also a huge growth in EV conversions for classics

[motco]

Baldchap said:

Lazadude said:

There needs to be a breakthrough in battery tech before its even slightly feasible.

For the overwhelming majority of people doing the overwhelming majority or journeys, it's feasible right now.

Only for those with home charging. Relying on public chargers would be a step too far. We have a five year old Leaf and a Podpoint home charger and although our mileage is very low/local it gets plugged in after most journeys - especially in cold weather when range is poor. Okay, it's only 24kWh but it charges quickly because of that. A high capacity even on a 7kW home charger can take longer than merely overnight to 100% from, say, 10%.

[Dont like rolls]

Piha said:

This hateful tory government cares not one jot for the British public.

Whoever voted for this evil cabal, just look at what you have done with your votes, shame on you....

Still smarting then, put some cream on it.

[robinessex]

Dave Hedgehog said:

Silkyskills said:

I wonder what will happen to those of us with classic cars as the demand for petrol drops dramatically and so filling stations start to close en masse.

Petrol will be available for at least 50 years, there is also a huge growth in EV conversions for classics

Oh brilliant. Put an electric motor in say, a Ferrari 275GTB 4. Wonderful.

[GT03ROB]

Piha said:

This hateful tory government cares not one jot for the British public.

Whoever voted for this evil cabal, just look at what you have done with your votes, shame on you....

What are you talking about. It's a bit early for a drunken rant.

It's coming so get over yourself. You'll wonder in 30 years time why we all fawned over these horrible grimy petrol/diesel things,

[robbieduncan]

Dont like rolls said:

Still smarting then, put some cream on it.

To be honest this is one of the few things this government have done that I, as a non-Tory voter this last election, agree with! I can't see how this would be different under any other party and is surely the "correct" thing to do. I'd have liked to see them go further but hey, it's better than what I would expect from an "evil government"!

[df76]

It appears that it’s not all the EUs fault after all.

So 2035 is the end of ICE sales, and by 2050 we (the UK) need to be carbon neutral. So if it isn’t sooner, by 2050 it will be basically unaffordable to run an ICE engine (as it will be taxed as necessary).

That’s a huge shift in two 15 year periods.

[MYOB]

The govt ought to get the infrastructure in place to support mass ownership of electric vehicles before putting a date of banning fossil powered vehicles.

They are approaching it in the wrong manner.

[The Hypno-Toad]

How nice of the government to tell me the exact year that I become unemployed.

For all the reasons above this will not work in the timescale described, so hopefully it will have to be extended a bit & this date has been picked to appease the Greta/Damian and her acolytes.

Still hopefully I will be retired or dead by then so hey-ho.

[IanJ9375]

Jimboka said:

Good that hybrid are included, most are a nonsense:-
“ All our hybrids automatically run on electric power alone when driving conditions permit, switching off the petrol engine and reducing fuel consumption and exhaust emissions to zero. ... And unlike all-electric cars, there's no need for the vehicle to be plugged into a power source to be recharged”
Where does that magic free electricity come from? Bonkers concept..

That's just the Toyota BS about self charging - a PHEV can be a pretty sensible company car we're finding 51mpg so far with 6200 miles covered with 2000 of those miles being "e drive" so either from the initial charge or from reclaimed braking etc

The point about the lack of infrastructure won't go away, especially the more rural areas!
What is it 8hrs to charge a 60kWh battery with a home charger? Anyone got a 50kW rapid charger at home or work?

[Piha]

Dont like rolls said:

Piha said:

This hateful tory government cares not one jot for the British public.

Whoever voted for this evil cabal, just look at what you have done with your votes, shame on you....

Still smarting then, put some cream on it.

You must be most vexed that you can't blame anyone for this except for your own government.

[J4CKO]

robbieduncan said:

I saw an interview on YouTube (on FullyCharged I think) which was very interesting. A majority of cars are financed. A lot of those deals depend on a future value of the vehicle. As more and more people want EVs (perhaps due to tax changes, social pressure, whatever) the future value of piston cars will drop towards zero. So the cost of a lease/finance on a new piston vehicle will rise. This will rapidly make it too expensive for many people to own new piston vehicles so EVs will take over.

I think we will see this starting this year with company vehicles and the very advantageous tax for EVs.

Hadn't considered that angle, its an excellent point.

[sisu]

robbieduncan said:

I saw an interview on YouTube (on FullyCharged I think) which was very interesting. A majority of cars are financed. A lot of those deals depend on a future value of the vehicle. As more and more people want EVs (perhaps due to tax changes, social pressure, whatever) the future value of piston cars will drop towards zero. So the cost of a lease/finance on a new piston vehicle will rise. This will rapidly make it too expensive for many people to own new piston vehicles so EVs will take over.

I think we will see this starting this year with company vehicles and the very advantageous tax for EVs.

Also in the mix " US car insurance rates climbed 29.6% to an average of $1,548 in 2019 from $1,194 in 2011 as the cost of repairing sensor packed vehicles outpaced the savings from fewer crashes"

[rodericb]

RobDickinson said:

Theres a tesla with over 1 million kms in Holland and several close in LA.

Heres a Zoe with 345.000km and 96% SOH
https://twitter.com/RZOC/status/122370160669011968...

BMW i3 are lasting very well too.

Basically anything that isnt a leaf.

And batteries can be repaired, and recycled.

I dont expect I'll ever need to worry about my model 3 pack but if I do it has 4 easily replaceable modules I can put in crash recovered ones or cheap new ones as the cost of cells is still falling fast.

That Dutch Tesla is on (under it's second owner who did the kays) its second battery and fourth motor. But anyway, I was wondering what the secret is and the owner says it keeping the battery between 20 and 80% and not pulling too much current out of them (i.e. gentle acceleration) and a lot of highway driving. Interestingly, the first generation GM Volt had low ceiling and high floor on the battery to minimise degradation of the cells. There was some sort of re-use program for Volt batteries and some ended up in a battery system on a GM building.

Leafs, as you mention, are fairly poor at degradation and I think the i-Miev wasn't too stellar either. Rich is suffering a bit of degredation in his model X - nowhere near Leaf levels though: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ecmwWZmaU0A

[Dont like rolls]

sisu said:

Also in the mix " US car insurance rates climbed 29.6% to an average of $1,548 in 2019 from $1,194 in 2011 as the cost of repairing sensor packed vehicles outpaced the savings from fewer crashes"

Only the rich will be in private cars, the worker drones will be in "transport units"

[Jimbo.]

Jimboka said:

Good that hybrid are included, most are a nonsense:-
“ All our hybrids automatically run on electric power alone when driving conditions permit, switching off the petrol engine and reducing fuel consumption and exhaust emissions to zero. ... And unlike all-electric cars, there's no need for the vehicle to be plugged into a power source to be recharged”
Where does that magic free electricity come from? Bonkers concept..

As I suspect you know already, it just recovers energy that would otherwise be pissed away as heat by the brakes. So not such a bad idea after all.

[Dave Hedgehog]

SydneyBridge said:

and what do you reckon Corbyn would have done???
pedal cars only....

government manufactured and approved standardised self propelled citizen mobility enablement device in grey

with a lottery where you can win the chance to buy one