RE: Subaru BRZ prices go up - dramatically

[jsc15]

If I'm understanding this right.....the EU fines are because Subaru aren't hitting their 2021 emissions average, but are passing this on to UK customers, who aren't in the EU as of a few days back, and won't be in 2021 either

So, why are UK Subaru customers....
A) Paying more for a 2021 average we're not obliged to adhere to (but can still aim for and surpass)?
B) Constrained in UK model range in order to work towards the EU-enforced average?

[samoht]

jsc15 said:

If I'm understanding this right.....the EU fines are because Subaru aren't hitting their 2021 emissions average, but are passing this on to UK customers, who aren't in the EU as of a few days back, and won't be in 2021 either

So, why are UK Subaru customers....
A) Paying more for a 2021 average we're not obliged to adhere to (but can still aim for and surpass)?
B) Constrained in UK model range in order to work towards the EU-enforced average?

The UK govt has confirmed it will continue with the EU CO2 limits despite Brexit, that's why.

In fact things are even worse, because currently the limit is EU-wide and smaller cars bought in Mediterranean countries balance bigger thirstier ones bought in the UK. Post-Brexit the current situation is that the limit will be applied separately in the UK, which would effectively tighten things even more than originally planned. The govt may choose to relax this however, either independently or in collaboration with the EU.

[samoht]

It's worth noting that the GT86 is still £28k, so if you want one of these cars, you still have essentially the same car available at the same price from a different dealership.

In fact this underlines an interesting point - Toyota are emerging as the possible saviour of driving fun in Europe. Precisely because they sell so many Priuses and other hybrids, they can fairly easily meet the the EU fleet-wide limits. This means that they uniquely have the wiggle room to sell cars like the GR Aygo, GT86, Supra and LC500 that other manufacturers just cannot afford to offer.

And arguably this reflects a wider truth - the quicker we can get normal everyday boring motoring converted to electric or other CO2-free power, the more space will be left for petrolheads to have a fun car for occasional use.

[ZX10R NIN]

Good point even the LC500 is now hybrid.

[alistairbuchanan]

Long gone are the glory days of Subaru. Early 90’s when a certain Mr McRae and Mr Burns were putting subaru on the map. Its been a slow lingering death since they pulled the plug on rallying. You have to be over 70 to buy a new one now. Shame

[Kolbenkopp]

samoht said:

And arguably this reflects a wider truth - the quicker we can get normal everyday boring motoring converted to electric or other CO2-free power, the more space will be left for petrolheads to have a fun car for occasional use.

Exactly this. Best case, it also means a cheap supply of interesting ICE cars for the weekends. Once they get more expensive to run than EVs, only PHers that have genuine interest in the things are the market.

Not sure what Subaru is up to, but it seems they have given up on Europe for some time now. I like the brand and the cars. But man does the engine range suck.

Bad efficiency across the board, always mated to a CVT, likely to make up a bit for it. Current Impreza has a 114 PS 1.6 engine. That alone is a bit shocking, sounds like something out of a Golf 4 or Mk1 Focus. Of course only CVT, and despite the not exactly gigantic Impreza, 151 Co2. About 10 g less than a 300 PS Leon Cupra all wheel drive estate.

No wonder their fleet average sucks and they don't sell much here. Probably focussing on US, ANZA and Asia only...

[Olivergt]

samoht said:

jsc15 said:

If I'm understanding this right.....the EU fines are because Subaru aren't hitting their 2021 emissions average, but are passing this on to UK customers, who aren't in the EU as of a few days back, and won't be in 2021 either

So, why are UK Subaru customers....
A) Paying more for a 2021 average we're not obliged to adhere to (but can still aim for and surpass)?
B) Constrained in UK model range in order to work towards the EU-enforced average?

The UK govt has confirmed it will continue with the EU CO2 limits despite Brexit, that's why.

In fact things are even worse, because currently the limit is EU-wide and smaller cars bought in Mediterranean countries balance bigger thirstier ones bought in the UK. Post-Brexit the current situation is that the limit will be applied separately in the UK, which would effectively tighten things even more than originally planned. The govt may choose to relax this however, either independently or in collaboration with the EU.

I posted a thread on exactly this a few weeks back:

https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...

[bimsb6]

ZX10R NIN said:

Good point even the LC500 is now hybrid.

It was available as a hybrid along side the v8 at least 2 years ago

[soad]

alistairbuchanan said:

Long gone are the glory days of Subaru. Early 90’s when a certain Mr McRae and Mr Burns were putting subaru on the map. Its been a slow lingering death since they pulled the plug on rallying. You have to be over 70 to buy a new one now. Shame

Not just Subaru, chap. Decent lurking also.

[Andrew downunder]

I hadn't realised the UK market was so small for the 86/BRZ.
Down under the 86 has sold around 20000 vehicles since 2012, don't have the figures for the BRZ though. On straight currency conversion a BRZ costing 32,000 pounds works out at 62,000 Oz dollars. The starting price for a BRZ here is around 35,000 Oz dollars.

[Electronicpants]

Hammerhead said:

vaud said:

I loved the Spanish BRZ advert, mostly for sheer cheese (and that adverts like this are not allowed in the UK)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MzjEnxg3GYE

Brilliant!

Slept with the lights on though, odd!

If my wife looked like that first thing in the morning, I'd sleep with the lights on too

[Pica-Pica]

samoht said:

jsc15 said:

If I'm understanding this right.....the EU fines are because Subaru aren't hitting their 2021 emissions average, but are passing this on to UK customers, who aren't in the EU as of a few days back, and won't be in 2021 either

So, why are UK Subaru customers....
A) Paying more for a 2021 average we're not obliged to adhere to (but can still aim for and surpass)?
B) Constrained in UK model range in order to work towards the EU-enforced average?

The UK govt has confirmed it will continue with the EU CO2 limits despite Brexit, that's why.

In fact things are even worse, because currently the limit is EU-wide and smaller cars bought in Mediterranean countries balance bigger thirstier ones bought in the UK. Post-Brexit the current situation is that the limit will be applied separately in the UK, which would effectively tighten things even more than originally planned. The govt may choose to relax this however, either independently or in collaboration with the EU.

This has all been discussed a few weeks ago on PH. God! - PH does like to regurgitate articles

[rastapasta]

Subaru is part owned by Toyota to the tune of 16%. This will increase in the similar vein that Toyota has taken over Suzuki who will from this year on wards peddle brand engineered hybrid Toyota's. Subaru will be similar, Toyota will share its engineering know how with a view to a full takeover in the coming years. Toyota want a portfolio of marques ala VW. You can see how this will work. Even in Switzerland alot of the garages that are Toyota also sell Subaru or Suzuki. So this is how Subaru will exist in the future. They won't pull out of Europe as in Switzerland for example they sell more cars in certain regions than Toyota for example and every village has a Subaru garage. But they will stay by using Toyota tech.

And by that token I would forget about Boxer engines from here on.

[Rich Boy Spanner]

I thought Subaru had stopped selling new cars in the UK. Can't recall ever seeing a new one in years. The only Subaru's I see are ancient Impreza WRX's burbling about.

[jamoor]

rastapasta said:

Subaru is part owned by Toyota to the tune of 16%. This will increase in the similar vein that Toyota has taken over Suzuki who will from this year on wards peddle brand engineered hybrid Toyota's. Subaru will be similar, Toyota will share its engineering know how with a view to a full takeover in the coming years. Toyota want a portfolio of marques ala VW. You can see how this will work. Even in Switzerland alot of the garages that are Toyota also sell Subaru or Suzuki. So this is how Subaru will exist in the future. They won't pull out of Europe as in Switzerland for example they sell more cars in certain regions than Toyota for example and every village has a Subaru garage. But they will stay by using Toyota tech.

And by that token I would forget about Boxer engines from here on.

Why do Toyota want a portfolio of brands?

[kurokawa]

Andrew downunder said:

I hadn't realised the UK market was so small for the 86/BRZ.
Down under the 86 has sold around 20000 vehicles since 2012, don't have the figures for the BRZ though. On straight currency conversion a BRZ costing 32,000 pounds works out at 62,000 Oz dollars. The starting price for a BRZ here is around 35,000 Oz dollars.

The competition is high in UK.
We got practical and more powerful daily drive hot hatch
We also got cheaper (and personally found it more fun to drive) MX-5
For luxury and premium there are those IS and German sport saloon/Coupe

[waftycranker]

I'd take the BRZ over the 86 because of the rareness and WRC blue.

[waftycranker]

waftycranker said:

I'd take the BRZ over the 86 because of the rareness and WRC blue.

If the asking price was the same.

[rastapasta]

jamoor said:

rastapasta said:

Subaru is part owned by Toyota to the tune of 16%. This will increase in the similar vein that Toyota has taken over Suzuki who will from this year on wards peddle brand engineered hybrid Toyota's. Subaru will be similar, Toyota will share its engineering know how with a view to a full takeover in the coming years. Toyota want a portfolio of marques ala VW. You can see how this will work. Even in Switzerland alot of the garages that are Toyota also sell Subaru or Suzuki. So this is how Subaru will exist in the future. They won't pull out of Europe as in Switzerland for example they sell more cars in certain regions than Toyota for example and every village has a Subaru garage. But they will stay by using Toyota tech.

And by that token I would forget about Boxer engines from here on.

Why do Toyota want a portfolio of brands?

Or why do they continue to hoover brands up. Presumably for the same reason VW does. I guess overall market share consolidation. I didn't realize they also own part of Yamaha motorbikes.

[GTEYE]

kieranblenk said:

I wouldn't be surprised if Subaru pulls out of the EU market within the next year or two..

Judging by the number of recent ones you see on the road, most people would probably assume they already had.

The heady days of Colin McRae and Richard Burns are a long time in the past now...the brand seems to have given up on the UK