RE: All good things come to an end in 2035
Discussion
Excellent post. Bring it on I say. I like my motorbikes and my boxer engines but I've driven electric and it convinced me fairly quickly that my current ICE cars will be the last ones I ever own - or indeed even want to own.
We are at an inflection point as far as contemporary BEV criticisms like cost-of-entry and range anxiety are concerned. It just needs a little momentum for the technology investment to pay off and the market to become more accessible.
We are at an inflection point as far as contemporary BEV criticisms like cost-of-entry and range anxiety are concerned. It just needs a little momentum for the technology investment to pay off and the market to become more accessible.
Max_Torque said:
6)a BEV is completely agnostic to where it's electricity comes from. Electricity is Electricity. You can charge your car from a coal powerstation, from solar, from wind, hell you could couple a generator to a bike and charge it yourself if you really wanted too! And as our electrical energy network "Greens" then every single BEV greens as well (unlike your ICE that gets (significantly) dirtier as it ages and wears out) Buy and BEV today, and in 10 years time and at 150,000 miles it'll have a lower environmental impact that it did the day you bought it!
Absolutely this. I don't see the ICE manufacturers doing a lap, saying "We've found a way to make your car greener for the same performance, here's a free silent upgrade."But with every extra wind turbine, electric transport gets this free upgrade.
Harry H said:
Here's my electric car solution
All cars have standardised battery pack like a big cassette. You drive into a refuelling station and the machine swaps over batteries for you and off you go.
A battery is transferring electricity at hundred of volts and can deliver hundreds of Amps in a failure state. I want it to be installed and inspected at a properly equipped and trained facility.All cars have standardised battery pack like a big cassette. You drive into a refuelling station and the machine swaps over batteries for you and off you go.
And that's without the cooling system being integrated.
Evanivitch said:
A battery is transferring electricity at hundred of volts and can deliver hundreds of Amps in a failure state. I want it to be installed and inspected at a properly equipped and trained facility.
And that's without the cooling system being integrated.
No reason a cassette style battery would pose any greater electrocution risk than the plug you normally charge it with. Less so in fact as it could be swapped out without anyone touching it. I was involved in just such a design study 20 years ago at Uni where you drove over the new battery and it knocked out the old... far greater concern was failure of the attachment to the car for whatever reason at any kind of speed. The idea made sense then but less so now with cars having 300+ mile range.And that's without the cooling system being integrated.
fblm said:
No reason a cassette style battery would pose any greater electrocution risk than the plug you normally charge it with.
Electrocution would be the least of my worries.You're ignoring the fact the plug is connected to an external charger, which is connected to your onboard charger, which is further managed by the BMS.
How much are you willing to add to your generic battery pack to ensure it's independently safe regardless of the conditions of the interface it is installed to? Suddenly, it's a lot more than just a battery you're swapping.
A lifelong petrolhead. Many V8's have graced my driveway. But the last one I built will be my last petrol car; the next one will be an EV.
Ban or don't ban, the market will dictate the future. I'm not for banning things like this but if they don't ban ICE cars they'll just tax them out of existence.
The use of electricity as the driving method is the future whether we like it or not. I'll miss the noise but probably not much else...
Ban or don't ban, the market will dictate the future. I'm not for banning things like this but if they don't ban ICE cars they'll just tax them out of existence.
The use of electricity as the driving method is the future whether we like it or not. I'll miss the noise but probably not much else...
Blippy said:
Excellent post. Bring it on I say. I like my motorbikes and my boxer engines but I've driven electric and it convinced me fairly quickly that my current ICE cars will be the last ones I ever own - or indeed even want to own.
We are at an inflection point as far as contemporary BEV criticisms like cost-of-entry and range anxiety are concerned. It just needs a little momentum for the technology investment to pay off and the market to become more accessible.
Hold my beer:We are at an inflection point as far as contemporary BEV criticisms like cost-of-entry and range anxiety are concerned. It just needs a little momentum for the technology investment to pay off and the market to become more accessible.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=KHgD0wJGcR0
Evanivitch said:
Harry H said:
Here's my electric car solution
All cars have standardised battery pack like a big cassette. You drive into a refuelling station and the machine swaps over batteries for you and off you go.
A battery is transferring electricity at hundred of volts and can deliver hundreds of Amps in a failure state. I want it to be installed and inspected at a properly equipped and trained facility.All cars have standardised battery pack like a big cassette. You drive into a refuelling station and the machine swaps over batteries for you and off you go.
And that's without the cooling system being integrated.
You can get THOUSANDS of amps in a failure event. Even 10,000A+ in a hard short. Obviously before the main fuse blows.
But anyway, interchangeable batteries exist. Nio has been doing it in China for ages.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/electrek.co/2020/06/0...
It works in principle but I don't see the point. Charging times are only an issue if you try to use the car the same as an ICE. Change your thinking- charge it every night when you get home. It refills itself when you're asleep! You always have 100% SOC when you leave in the morning!
Not having to faff around swapping 450kg battery packs and all the risks and investment that comes along with that.
GroundEffect said:
Evanivitch said:
Harry H said:
Here's my electric car solution
All cars have standardised battery pack like a big cassette. You drive into a refuelling station and the machine swaps over batteries for you and off you go.
A battery is transferring electricity at hundred of volts and can deliver hundreds of Amps in a failure state. I want it to be installed and inspected at a properly equipped and trained facility.All cars have standardised battery pack like a big cassette. You drive into a refuelling station and the machine swaps over batteries for you and off you go.
And that's without the cooling system being integrated.
You can get THOUSANDS of amps in a failure event. Even 10,000A+ in a hard short. Obviously before the main fuse blows.
But anyway, interchangeable batteries exist. Nio has been doing it in China for ages.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/electrek.co/2020/06/0...
It works in principle but I don't see the point. Charging times are only an issue if you try to use the car the same as an ICE. Change your thinking- charge it every night when you get home. It refills itself when you're asleep! You always have 100% SOC when you leave in the morning!
Not having to faff around swapping 450kg battery packs and all the risks and investment that comes along with that.
Didn't take off though.
Haven’t had chance to read all of the comments but, correct me if I’m wrong we’re heading towards nuclear fission being the preferred method of obtaining electricity to fuel the batteries of the future cars, yes? - rather than hydro, solar or wind power - all clean and sustainable?
Also correct me if I’m wrong but each rod that is irradiated has a half life of 250,000 years, yes?
Also correct me if I’m wrong but we’re struggling to find places to store the spent rods, yes?
So, with this in mind are we now going to pollute the earths crust and water tables with what I see, as an incredibly ‘dirty’ fuel!
Is a nuclear power station really as clean as it’s being sold to us as?
I believe the way the internal combustion engine is getting cleaner and cleaner and there are possibly other fuels that can be exploited rather than electricity produced by a fuel that is and can be (Chernobyl, Fukushima!) far more polluting and incredibly dangerous than fossil fuels.
So, in one hundred years when we don’t have any storage space for spent batteries and radioactive rods where then?
Don’t get me wrong I think it’s admirable that governments are thinking of the now and a quick fix to the issues created by exhaust gasses but, that’s really not the bigger story is it voters?
And for us in the UK where on earth is the revenue from the tax on fossil fuel going to be raped from? come 2035? - Electricity?
I’ll stop ranting now, I just hate electricity created from nuclear fission as much as some people hate fossil fuels!
Also correct me if I’m wrong but each rod that is irradiated has a half life of 250,000 years, yes?
Also correct me if I’m wrong but we’re struggling to find places to store the spent rods, yes?
So, with this in mind are we now going to pollute the earths crust and water tables with what I see, as an incredibly ‘dirty’ fuel!
Is a nuclear power station really as clean as it’s being sold to us as?
I believe the way the internal combustion engine is getting cleaner and cleaner and there are possibly other fuels that can be exploited rather than electricity produced by a fuel that is and can be (Chernobyl, Fukushima!) far more polluting and incredibly dangerous than fossil fuels.
So, in one hundred years when we don’t have any storage space for spent batteries and radioactive rods where then?
Don’t get me wrong I think it’s admirable that governments are thinking of the now and a quick fix to the issues created by exhaust gasses but, that’s really not the bigger story is it voters?
And for us in the UK where on earth is the revenue from the tax on fossil fuel going to be raped from? come 2035? - Electricity?
I’ll stop ranting now, I just hate electricity created from nuclear fission as much as some people hate fossil fuels!
TheOrangePeril said:
Not really, as the used market then becomes less polluting as three year old Teslas take the place of three year old [insert marque here]'s.
A few people have mentioned shipping/aviation etc here. Of course it's an utter scandal how inefficient and polluting these sectors are allowed to be, dwarfing road emissions, but road traffic (cars/buses/LGVs/HGVs) account for about half of all oil use. If shipbuilders and aerospace companies are unable/unwilling to innovate quickly enough to reduce their astronomical emissions, regulating road traffic will will drastically reduce oil demand. Given that oil producers are finding it more and more expensive to extract the stuff, investment will drop with demand. Saudi Arabia are already pivoting away from their reliance on petrochemicals, more countries will follow. The over-extraction will fall away and gradually (and perhaps counterintuitively) prices will begin to rise in the same way that coal prices have since the turn of the millennium.
Whilst this is true, you also have to take into consideration Teslas refusal to repare or restore salvage examples. Tesla believes in a throw away future of buying and getting rid and then buying a new one. They have 0 support for third party garages and you will void your warranty instantly letting anyone other than tesla work on the car, they wont even supply parts.A few people have mentioned shipping/aviation etc here. Of course it's an utter scandal how inefficient and polluting these sectors are allowed to be, dwarfing road emissions, but road traffic (cars/buses/LGVs/HGVs) account for about half of all oil use. If shipbuilders and aerospace companies are unable/unwilling to innovate quickly enough to reduce their astronomical emissions, regulating road traffic will will drastically reduce oil demand. Given that oil producers are finding it more and more expensive to extract the stuff, investment will drop with demand. Saudi Arabia are already pivoting away from their reliance on petrochemicals, more countries will follow. The over-extraction will fall away and gradually (and perhaps counterintuitively) prices will begin to rise in the same way that coal prices have since the turn of the millennium.
think the biggest issue here is America and correct me if i am wrong but all Oil traes are done in US Dollars meaning the USA gets a %cut of all Oil trades due to exchange rates. Now Russia, China, Syria, North Korea do not trade Oil in US dollars. Lybia and Iraq stopped trading in US dollars right until they were overthrown.America has far to much invested in Oil to pursue a different power source.
Edited by lotuslover69 on Friday 31st July 17:49
Kipsrs said:
...correct me if I’m wrong we’re heading towards nuclear fission being the preferred method of obtaining electricity to fuel the batteries of the future cars, yes?
Consider yourself corrected. We're heading towards large scale deployment of wind and solar, with stuff like liquid air storage for balancing. It seems unlikely Hinkley Point C will happen. In the next fifteen years, we are likely to see one of the dozens of compact fusion projects achieve commercially viable energy gain.Kipsrs said:
Haven’t had chance to read all of the comments but, correct me if I’m wrong we’re heading towards nuclear fission being the preferred method of obtaining electricity to fuel the batteries of the future cars, yes? - rather than hydro, solar or wind power - all clean and sustainable?
Also correct me if I’m wrong but each rod that is irradiated has a half life of 250,000 years, yes?
Also correct me if I’m wrong but we’re struggling to find places to store the spent rods, yes?
So, with this in mind are we now going to pollute the earths crust and water tables with what I see, as an incredibly ‘dirty’ fuel!
Is a nuclear power station really as clean as it’s being sold to us as?
I believe the way the internal combustion engine is getting cleaner and cleaner and there are possibly other fuels that can be exploited rather than electricity produced by a fuel that is and can be (Chernobyl, Fukushima!) far more polluting and incredibly dangerous than fossil fuels.
So, in one hundred years when we don’t have any storage space for spent batteries and radioactive rods where then?
Don’t get me wrong I think it’s admirable that governments are thinking of the now and a quick fix to the issues created by exhaust gasses but, that’s really not the bigger story is it voters?
And for us in the UK where on earth is the revenue from the tax on fossil fuel going to be raped from? come 2035? - Electricity?
I’ll stop ranting now, I just hate electricity created from nuclear fission as much as some people hate fossil fuels!
So much wronginess. Also correct me if I’m wrong but each rod that is irradiated has a half life of 250,000 years, yes?
Also correct me if I’m wrong but we’re struggling to find places to store the spent rods, yes?
So, with this in mind are we now going to pollute the earths crust and water tables with what I see, as an incredibly ‘dirty’ fuel!
Is a nuclear power station really as clean as it’s being sold to us as?
I believe the way the internal combustion engine is getting cleaner and cleaner and there are possibly other fuels that can be exploited rather than electricity produced by a fuel that is and can be (Chernobyl, Fukushima!) far more polluting and incredibly dangerous than fossil fuels.
So, in one hundred years when we don’t have any storage space for spent batteries and radioactive rods where then?
Don’t get me wrong I think it’s admirable that governments are thinking of the now and a quick fix to the issues created by exhaust gasses but, that’s really not the bigger story is it voters?
And for us in the UK where on earth is the revenue from the tax on fossil fuel going to be raped from? come 2035? - Electricity?
I’ll stop ranting now, I just hate electricity created from nuclear fission as much as some people hate fossil fuels!
"we’re heading towards nuclear fission" - no
Rumblestripe said:
Kipsrs said:
Haven’t had chance to read all of the comments but, correct me if I’m wrong we’re heading towards nuclear fission being the preferred method of obtaining electricity to fuel the batteries of the future cars, yes? - rather than hydro, solar or wind power - all clean and sustainable?
Also correct me if I’m wrong but each rod that is irradiated has a half life of 250,000 years, yes?
Also correct me if I’m wrong but we’re struggling to find places to store the spent rods, yes?
So, with this in mind are we now going to pollute the earths crust and water tables with what I see, as an incredibly ‘dirty’ fuel!
Is a nuclear power station really as clean as it’s being sold to us as?
I believe the way the internal combustion engine is getting cleaner and cleaner and there are possibly other fuels that can be exploited rather than electricity produced by a fuel that is and can be (Chernobyl, Fukushima!) far more polluting and incredibly dangerous than fossil fuels.
So, in one hundred years when we don’t have any storage space for spent batteries and radioactive rods where then?
Don’t get me wrong I think it’s admirable that governments are thinking of the now and a quick fix to the issues created by exhaust gasses but, that’s really not the bigger story is it voters?
And for us in the UK where on earth is the revenue from the tax on fossil fuel going to be raped from? come 2035? - Electricity?
I’ll stop ranting now, I just hate electricity created from nuclear fission as much as some people hate fossil fuels!
So much wronginess. Also correct me if I’m wrong but each rod that is irradiated has a half life of 250,000 years, yes?
Also correct me if I’m wrong but we’re struggling to find places to store the spent rods, yes?
So, with this in mind are we now going to pollute the earths crust and water tables with what I see, as an incredibly ‘dirty’ fuel!
Is a nuclear power station really as clean as it’s being sold to us as?
I believe the way the internal combustion engine is getting cleaner and cleaner and there are possibly other fuels that can be exploited rather than electricity produced by a fuel that is and can be (Chernobyl, Fukushima!) far more polluting and incredibly dangerous than fossil fuels.
So, in one hundred years when we don’t have any storage space for spent batteries and radioactive rods where then?
Don’t get me wrong I think it’s admirable that governments are thinking of the now and a quick fix to the issues created by exhaust gasses but, that’s really not the bigger story is it voters?
And for us in the UK where on earth is the revenue from the tax on fossil fuel going to be raped from? come 2035? - Electricity?
I’ll stop ranting now, I just hate electricity created from nuclear fission as much as some people hate fossil fuels!
"we’re heading towards nuclear fission" - no
Fusion not fission, polar opposites!
Fusion cliche, always 30 years away. Holy grail though if we can make it happen. Some interesting work on it on small scale tokamak’s.
And for those of you still banging on about electricity generated from sources like coal, have a look at:
Https://gridwatch.co.uk/coal
Literally no electricity from coal in the UK today, in fact none since early April.
None from oil either, about 30% from gas.
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