Reasons why you don’t go to a main dealer for a service
Discussion
M4cruiser said:
Throttle Body said:
I always thought that they made a sizeable amount of their profit from selling finance. When I go into a main dealer, I always force myself to remember that the salesperson is selling debt. The car is simply the hook by which the customer is reeled in to take on the debt.
This is true - I heard that Ford Credit makes more money than Ford Motor!£100+ quid an hour for a computer guided part changer?
No thanks. I will stick to a quality old school motor engineer with a computer for the start point of diagnosis, but far better cognitive diagnostic capabilities when it starts to get complex and potentially expensive according to the list of (mainly incorrect IME) parts to be changed.
Example. My C5 corvette. ABS issue. Thought I’d try the dealer computer on a complex fault, the error messages were not making sense across the front axle, should have been on the same wheel if it was the hub sensor and wasn’t giving any other clues. I needed more detail (extra digits on the codes) off the factory computer. Plugged into his computer, 20 minutes later, got the result (and a 90 quid bill) - needs a new control unit, in excess of £3000 plus fitting. My answer, sod that, I’m going to have a look myself for a bit longer than 20 minutes.
It was Saturday afternoon when I got back, I was grumpy and my normal guy wasn’t open plus weather was good. Spent 2 hours under the car. Changed some of the unpluggable ABS loom from side to side to attempt to move the computer errors and pinpoint any dodgy connections / wiring (it didn’t, the faults remained - but in doing all that I noticed the bloody manual was wrong!). I diagnosed an OSF wheel sensor issue by fixing the manual code / description errors and ordered it in from the states. Fitted it myself for a customs tax and delivery paid $175 and one grazed knuckle on its arrival 2 days later.
When I asked my proper engineer what he would have done, he said the same as me - ignored the computer, got into the loom and connections and I guess would have been a similar $175 price plus £50 an hour on diags - or less as he has better test gear than me and probably would have spotted the code errors in the manual sooner.
Just one of many examples, especially as my late father was a brilliant motor engineer / proprietor who used to get all this type of stuff from dealer’s ranging from Ford to exotics customers based on his his reputation. IMHO, (and my dad’s) all a dealer’s garage is worth is for warrantee issues when someone else is picking up the bill.
No thanks. I will stick to a quality old school motor engineer with a computer for the start point of diagnosis, but far better cognitive diagnostic capabilities when it starts to get complex and potentially expensive according to the list of (mainly incorrect IME) parts to be changed.
Example. My C5 corvette. ABS issue. Thought I’d try the dealer computer on a complex fault, the error messages were not making sense across the front axle, should have been on the same wheel if it was the hub sensor and wasn’t giving any other clues. I needed more detail (extra digits on the codes) off the factory computer. Plugged into his computer, 20 minutes later, got the result (and a 90 quid bill) - needs a new control unit, in excess of £3000 plus fitting. My answer, sod that, I’m going to have a look myself for a bit longer than 20 minutes.
It was Saturday afternoon when I got back, I was grumpy and my normal guy wasn’t open plus weather was good. Spent 2 hours under the car. Changed some of the unpluggable ABS loom from side to side to attempt to move the computer errors and pinpoint any dodgy connections / wiring (it didn’t, the faults remained - but in doing all that I noticed the bloody manual was wrong!). I diagnosed an OSF wheel sensor issue by fixing the manual code / description errors and ordered it in from the states. Fitted it myself for a customs tax and delivery paid $175 and one grazed knuckle on its arrival 2 days later.
When I asked my proper engineer what he would have done, he said the same as me - ignored the computer, got into the loom and connections and I guess would have been a similar $175 price plus £50 an hour on diags - or less as he has better test gear than me and probably would have spotted the code errors in the manual sooner.
Just one of many examples, especially as my late father was a brilliant motor engineer / proprietor who used to get all this type of stuff from dealer’s ranging from Ford to exotics customers based on his his reputation. IMHO, (and my dad’s) all a dealer’s garage is worth is for warrantee issues when someone else is picking up the bill.
Whilst I still have warranty, I do use a main dealer - I want to cut off any wriggle room that a problem could have been caused by something done or not done during servicing, plus advisories, recalls and updates mean fewer visits.
Even when I eventually win any dispute it's not worth the potential extra grief. Never let them wash but I do let them hoover.
Even when I eventually win any dispute it's not worth the potential extra grief. Never let them wash but I do let them hoover.
Graveworm said:
Whilst I still have warranty, I do use a main dealer - I want to cut off any wriggle room that a problem could have been caused by something done or not done during servicing, plus advisories, recalls and updates mean fewer visits.
Even when I eventually win any dispute it's not worth the potential extra grief. Never let them wash but I do let them hoover.
Basically, my reasoning too. Once the car is out of warranty, there should be no issues in going elsewhere.Even when I eventually win any dispute it's not worth the potential extra grief. Never let them wash but I do let them hoover.
Also:
Most main dealers it would appear from experience and asking around, have one "Proper" mechanic, and loads of trainees (YTS etc) so they may not spot anything else that may need doing and point it out, or may not do the jobs correctly due to lack of training/experience.
and
Why is it that if a manufacturer states, for example (having had car serviced yesterday at main dealer) that brake fluid should be changed every 2 years, it is NOT included in the main dealer servicing price, but it is left to you, the customer, to ask for this to be done AND pay extra?
littlebasher said:
I took one of our cars to a main dealer in Sheffield for a service.
Turned up later in the day, paid for the work done and discovered the car parked in the same spot that it was in when i dropped it off. Although that could easily have been a coincidence, it roused my suspicions and a quick check under the bonnet confirmed that the car hadn't been touched.
Half hearted apology from the service desk who would rearrange a service for the following week. Couldn't be less bothered, begrudgingly refunded me and offered a mediocre discount on the next one.
Cheeky f
kers wanted me to pay for the courtesy car again as well
From having worked in dealerships I struggle to understand how this came to pass.Turned up later in the day, paid for the work done and discovered the car parked in the same spot that it was in when i dropped it off. Although that could easily have been a coincidence, it roused my suspicions and a quick check under the bonnet confirmed that the car hadn't been touched.
Half hearted apology from the service desk who would rearrange a service for the following week. Couldn't be less bothered, begrudgingly refunded me and offered a mediocre discount on the next one.
Cheeky f
kers wanted me to pay for the courtesy car again as wellI get that nothing was done, a simple error possibly, but how did it get invoiced?
The job card would have been blank, no parts booked to it and no technicians time, notes, or signature etc.
To produce an invoice with none of that is both difficult and a deliberate act of falsification.
In the 25 odd years I was in the game I don`t recall a service advisor mickeying up invoices to cover up mistakes.
I do recall Service Managers admitting to and apologising for errors of omission when such things occurred.
Remember, that car could have a serious/dangerous fault. The dealer has a duty of care to find and report on these to the customer as part of the job. Allowing a car to leave the dealership having charged for, but not carried out, a service could come back to bite them very deeply in the arse should something bad happen.
Also this practice, if discovered, would not be tolerated by any manufacturer, so would jeopardise the dealers franchise. Plus a dealer holding a franchise, must check for and carry out any outstanding recalls, for every car that comes in, failing to do so renders the dealer liable should something bad happen as a result of that failure.
I`m not doubting this happened, but do not believe the practice is widespread or common, certainly where I worked it would not have been tolerated and could only have been done by a rogue service advisor acting alone. And even then it would have been picked up on as all job cards had to be allocated to, time stamped and signed off by a tech.
Hammer67 said:
I`m not doubting this happened, but do not believe the practice is widespread or common, certainly where I worked it would not have been tolerated and could only have been done by a rogue service advisor acting alone. And even then it would have been picked up on as all job cards had to be allocated to, time stamped and signed off by a tech.
I agree, it was clearly a genuine error on their part rather than an attempt to falsify a service. Was more of the indifference that bothered me.Edited by littlebasher on Saturday 15th February 05:24
Throttle Body said:
Why don’t you visit your main dealer for servicing or repairs?
The parts prices is what gets me fuming at using my Volvo dealer. Naturally, they have to use OEM parts, and charge full list price for them. But Volvo charges SOOOO much for them. As a consequence, I avoid the main stealer, and have now avoided buying another Volvo.
Interesting. My local Volvo main dealer is woeful.....but a smaller franchise outfit are more reasonable. The parts prices is what gets me fuming at using my Volvo dealer. Naturally, they have to use OEM parts, and charge full list price for them. But Volvo charges SOOOO much for them. As a consequence, I avoid the main stealer, and have now avoided buying another Volvo.
p4cks said:
Why don’t you visit your main dealer for servicing or repairs?
How does it make you feel when you HAVE to go to the main dealer for something?
What do they do that you DON’T like?
What do they do that you DO like?
I do.....well, for the 5 year, £500 service pack, I have done so far.....like many, lowers the chance of hassle IF there was a nasty warranty claim.....the added breakdown cover is a slight bonus....How does it make you feel when you HAVE to go to the main dealer for something?
What do they do that you DON’T like?
What do they do that you DO like?
...but I believe my next service is a lumpy timing belt one, so I will revisit - we do have a great indy locally, I let them do pads/discs so far: I will likely use them in the future. Or maybe it is time to chop in the motor....although it is still super comfy with all bells & whistles I need!
Also wondering about using a 'timing belt specialist' for the next service - it appears we have one reasonably close by - someone who specialises in that over a general Volvo specialist....hmmmm....
Today the Allroad is in for warranty investigation @ Audi main dealer in South Wales. I am currently sat in a small office with a cup of hot coffee by my side and my work laptop connected to the free wifi. I'm having quiet a productive morning... I can't fault the service.
If the car was out of warranty, I might think about an independent garage but the fact I can sit here and work is worth quite a lot to me!
If the car was out of warranty, I might think about an independent garage but the fact I can sit here and work is worth quite a lot to me!
Will use an OPC as I have their extended warranty and have to.
Only had one experience so far (111 check and 2 year warranty) and they were good, replaced a couple of things under warranty which I had to fight a little for. Nice coffee and biscuit.
I will no doubt feel aggrieved paying £250 for £100 of oil but I might supply my own
Only had one experience so far (111 check and 2 year warranty) and they were good, replaced a couple of things under warranty which I had to fight a little for. Nice coffee and biscuit.
I will no doubt feel aggrieved paying £250 for £100 of oil but I might supply my own
I always had an inkling that main dealer servicing was crap but this thread has astonished me.
So, someone buys an expensive, high performance, vehicle and takes care of it like it is made from glass. How does one go about finding the best "specialist" to service it or worse repair it if and when things go bad? I worry these independents may swap out perfectly good components just to force you to order new ones, and then use your perfectly good components in other cars and charge for those. This happened to my father when i was younger and we found out that independent specialist was doing this was hundreds of cars and basically recycling perfect components between cars and charging full wack for them.
So, someone buys an expensive, high performance, vehicle and takes care of it like it is made from glass. How does one go about finding the best "specialist" to service it or worse repair it if and when things go bad? I worry these independents may swap out perfectly good components just to force you to order new ones, and then use your perfectly good components in other cars and charge for those. This happened to my father when i was younger and we found out that independent specialist was doing this was hundreds of cars and basically recycling perfect components between cars and charging full wack for them.
Kaktus said:
So, someone buys an expensive, high performance, vehicle and takes care of it like it is made from glass. How does one go about finding the best "specialist" to service it or worse repair it if and when things go bad? .
I would recommend finding a website that specialises in cars and their enthusiasts and that has specialised areas for different marques full of knowledgeable posters.Good luck in your search
Ludicrous pricing and age of the vehicle is why i don’t use the dealers.
I run a 2012 C350 coupe, it’s low mileage and spent it’s first 3 warranty years.
Since then it goes to an Indy who uses Mercedes parts and I can trust.
My next service for this vehicle is at the end of the year. Mercedes are quoting over £850 for it,
Absolutely laughable
I run a 2012 C350 coupe, it’s low mileage and spent it’s first 3 warranty years.
Since then it goes to an Indy who uses Mercedes parts and I can trust.
My next service for this vehicle is at the end of the year. Mercedes are quoting over £850 for it,
Absolutely laughable
My dad has a 2018 BMW 640i Gran Turismo. He bought it one year old from a BMW Dealer approved used. I unfortunately scraped the front bumper one day in a car park, he takes it into BMW as it has smart repair insurance from when he bought it.
They call him and tell him there’s a large bulge in the NSF tyre, Both front tyres were nearly new on 7mm.
BMW-“we have to replace both as we don’t sell single Bridgestones, we will do you a deal on two Pirelli’s for £580.
Dad- “Why won’t you sell a Bridgestone”
BMW- They aren't BMW approved
Dad- you sold the car 2 months ago to me with Bridgestones.
BMW- Yes we will sell an approved used car with non approved tyres but won’t fit them ourselves.
So off we go to the dealer at 6pm just before they close to pick the car up and get the tyre replaced the next day for much cheaper.
Sure enough 50% of the new cars in the showroom floor had the exact same S001 Potenzas on them! They eventually agree to fit a single Bridgestone, for £290. Black circles do the same tyre for £210. They refuse to price match and then refuse to release the car as it’s too dangerous. Holding the car hostage until he pays £290 for a tyre!
In the end they took the wheel off chucked it in the back of the Mini Courtesy car and dad took it to ATS the next day at 9am and got it replaced for £210. Oh and they had to re do the paint repair as they hadn’t even attempted to blend it under the front splitter and still had pieces of masking tape on it.... apparently this is acceptable for a BMW Bodyshop repair on a £65000 car.
They call him and tell him there’s a large bulge in the NSF tyre, Both front tyres were nearly new on 7mm.
BMW-“we have to replace both as we don’t sell single Bridgestones, we will do you a deal on two Pirelli’s for £580.
Dad- “Why won’t you sell a Bridgestone”
BMW- They aren't BMW approved
Dad- you sold the car 2 months ago to me with Bridgestones.
BMW- Yes we will sell an approved used car with non approved tyres but won’t fit them ourselves.
So off we go to the dealer at 6pm just before they close to pick the car up and get the tyre replaced the next day for much cheaper.
Sure enough 50% of the new cars in the showroom floor had the exact same S001 Potenzas on them! They eventually agree to fit a single Bridgestone, for £290. Black circles do the same tyre for £210. They refuse to price match and then refuse to release the car as it’s too dangerous. Holding the car hostage until he pays £290 for a tyre!
In the end they took the wheel off chucked it in the back of the Mini Courtesy car and dad took it to ATS the next day at 9am and got it replaced for £210. Oh and they had to re do the paint repair as they hadn’t even attempted to blend it under the front splitter and still had pieces of masking tape on it.... apparently this is acceptable for a BMW Bodyshop repair on a £65000 car.
CJ1 said:
Dad- “Why won’t you sell a Bridgestone”
BMW- They aren't BMW approved
Dad- you sold the car 2 months ago to me with Bridgestones.
BMW- Yes we will sell an approved used car with non approved tyres but won’t fit them ourselves.
This is a clear demonstration of a lack of intellect (deliberate or not), as any reasonable person would be concerned about a) looking like a thicko when sharing this policy and b) looking like they are blatantly profiteering.BMW- They aren't BMW approved
Dad- you sold the car 2 months ago to me with Bridgestones.
BMW- Yes we will sell an approved used car with non approved tyres but won’t fit them ourselves.
CJ1 said:
Then refuse to release the car as it’s too dangerous.
On the one hand they have a point, however they should also have a few written disclaimers for customers to sign for situations like this, rather than creating these potentially incendiary situations.Lending the Mini courtesy car showed some willing I suppose...
PDP76 said:
My next service for this vehicle is at the end of the year. Mercedes are quoting over £850 for it,
Absolutely laughable
Depends what service it is, but £850 is always a lot, yes.Absolutely laughable
Many "main dealer" services are this sort of price now.
If you have (for example) an 8-year old Mazda6 needing a full service + timing belt, then a £1,000 service at a main dealer is not sensible for the value of the car.
It might depend on what part of the country you're in, and certainly how easy it is to access a reputably indy. I have one I've used which is @ 9 miles away and very good. They only use BMW parts which makes it not particularly cheap, but clearly take a pride in their work. It involves lifts or buses.
Before I'd used them I used the main dealer. Last time they replaced a Z4 thermostat and housing (iirc) which came to £165. That sounds a lot until you break it down. The part was £65 (that is expensive), VAT, say £30. So they collected the car, a 30 mile round trip, checked the fault, replaced the part, topped up anti freeze and tested for leaks for £70. And guaranteed it for 2 years. How much would I have saved at an indy?
In contrast though, when the ABS ECU failed the dealer would just have replaced it @ £900 iirc, whereas the indy sent it off for recon, with a lifetime guarantee for £125 + fitting etc.
Horses for courses.
Before I'd used them I used the main dealer. Last time they replaced a Z4 thermostat and housing (iirc) which came to £165. That sounds a lot until you break it down. The part was £65 (that is expensive), VAT, say £30. So they collected the car, a 30 mile round trip, checked the fault, replaced the part, topped up anti freeze and tested for leaks for £70. And guaranteed it for 2 years. How much would I have saved at an indy?
In contrast though, when the ABS ECU failed the dealer would just have replaced it @ £900 iirc, whereas the indy sent it off for recon, with a lifetime guarantee for £125 + fitting etc.
Horses for courses.
Edited by Sticks. on Sunday 16th February 13:22
Because they use 18 year old apprentices to carry out all the crap jobs, and when a car gets to a certain age unless they have a guy left over from that era, they won’t know as much as a specialist, who would see many issues more frequently. Also, I’ve never met a main dealer yet who would take the proper time to do things and advise on preventative maintenance. Obviously the main dealer has to tow the party line that everything is suitably robust. Lastly labour rates. Why would I want a less informed, less interested mechanic loose on my car?
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