RE: Alpine A110S vs. Porsche 718 GT4 vs. Audi R8 RWS

[blueg33]

nickfrog said:

blueg33 said:

The amateur psychologist in me thinks that some Porsche owners get defensive because deep down they know that they based their decision on the brand first and driving second, possibly assuming that the driving is the best because it’s a Porsche.

They then fall into cognitive dissonance when other cars especially cheaper or similar priced ones are reported as better to drive. They haven’t driven the other cars so resort to what they think is safe ground like switchgear and stitching

Sorry but that's very silly. If you buy the Porsche for the driving experience, which quite frankly is very possible IME of owning a couple, are you supposed to not buy it in case someone on PH is going to accuse you of being shallow? . It's entirely possible for a car to be a great drive despite the fact that it happens to also appeal to some badge snobs.

No need to apologise. As I said IMO it applies to a few who seem to think that Porsche is the perfect or only answer, and when they talk about switches and stitching it makes me wonder.

Dynamically the Cayman is excellent, I have driven a few but to get mega defensive if something is a bit better dynamically is a bit odd.

[Hungrymc]

nickfrog said:

Clockwork Cupcake said:

Very true. However, it's the ones who buy it for the badge that are the ones who are so fragile and defensive about it, in my opinion. I guess that any criticism of the badge is going to be perceived, by extension, as a personal criticism.

Yes probably.

And the same conclusion where any discussion about areas where someone thinks the Alpine could be improved (for them, and their preferences) being met with personal responses.

[Hungrymc]

blueg33 said:

No need to apologise. As I said IMO it applies to a few who seem to think that Porsche is the perfect or only answer, and when they talk about switches and stitching it makes me wonder.

Dynamically the Cayman is excellent, I have driven a few but to get mega defensive if something is a bit better dynamically is a bit odd.

Seen that behaviour from both sides of the discussion. Has made it quite a strange thread for those that appreciate both.

[mr pg]

bcr5784 said:

Actually the front boot is 2/3 the size - 100 vs 150 littes but shallow I'd acknowledge, However I've had luggage for a 3 week holiday in the Alpine with space to spare for shopping. True I've got bespoke luggage to use the space most effectively - but not too expensive. There is a lot of space behind the seats of smaller passengers too - the A110 can accommodate a 6' 6 driver.. Have you thought of changing the wife?

Edited by bcr5784 on Wednesday 12th February 20:00

Edited by bcr5784 on Wednesday 12th February 20:10

Couldn't afford that!

[bcr5784]

nickfrog said:

Sorry but that's very silly. If you buy the Porsche for the driving experience, which quite frankly is very possible IME of owning a couple, are you supposed to not buy it in case someone on PH is going to accuse you of being shallow? . It's entirely possible for a car to be a great drive despite the fact that it happens to also appeal to some badge snobs.

Of course you are right on all counts. That said there is more to the "ownership experience" than just the drive. On the plus side, a Porsche showroom is a far nicer place to be than an Alpine one - and there are other more important freebies too, a free day at the PEC is great. On the other side are the badge snobs which sully the experience for me a bit - I gave up attending Porsche meets for that reason. If, on the other hand, you buy a Caterham, a Lotus or an Alpine (at least in England) some aspects of the ownership experience aren't so good, but at least you feel a kinship to the other owners who, you can be pretty sure, aren't badge snobs.

At the end of the day none of that would make ME decide one way or the other - but if my social life was heavily intertwined with the car I owned, it just might.

[DoubleD]

You get badge snobs over most brands, that includes the ones you have just mentioned. They are a sort of anti badge snob, but end up being a badge snob because of it.

[bcr5784]

DoubleD said:

You get badge snobs over most brands, that includes the ones you have just mentioned. They are a sort of anti badge snob, but end up being a badge snob because of it.

Can't speak for all brands but having owned all of the ones I've mentioned, I've found them far far less snobish.

[Ultrafunkula]

I must admit I've come across very few Porsche owner 'badge snobs' in my time as an owner. I'm not talking about fans of the marque i.e. people who would prioritize buying a Porsche for that reason, but people who buy a Porsche to tell people down the pub they have a Porsche. I think that's more of an issue with BMW/Merc/Audi to be honest (not that Porsche snobs don't exist, of course. Much like the reliability issues though, I think they are slightly exaggerated).

The vast majority of Cayman owners buy them because of what they are - a fun, well balanced, impressive drivers car. I'm sure it will be the same for Alpine.

[Hungrymc]

Ultrafunkula said:

. I think that's more of an issue with BMW/Merc/Audi to be honest (not that Porsche snobs don't exist, of course. Much like the reliability issues though, I think they are slightly exaggerated).

The vast majority of Cayman owners buy them because of what they are - a fun, well balanced, impressive drivers car. I'm sure it will be the same for Alpine.

What is it with this thread that someone can't say something positive about a car they favor without having a pop at owners of other cars..... Bonkers.

[Helicopter123]

Hungrymc said:

Ultrafunkula said:

. I think that's more of an issue with BMW/Merc/Audi to be honest (not that Porsche snobs don't exist, of course. Much like the reliability issues though, I think they are slightly exaggerated).

The vast majority of Cayman owners buy them because of what they are - a fun, well balanced, impressive drivers car. I'm sure it will be the same for Alpine.

What is it with this thread that someone can't say something positive about a car they favor without having a pop at owners of other cars..... Bonkers.

It's worse than that though, I like the Renault Alpine but because I would prefer a manual gearbox in a sportscar, and ideally a naturally aspirated high revving engine, you would think I'd just called someone's baby ugly. There is also a perception that anyone who doesn't put said Alpine on a pedestal above all else that they must be a 'Porsche fanboy' more interested in 'stitching' and 'interior carbon' than driving. In fact, there are plenty of other options worth considering, such as Lotus or as the article points out, some very appealing used options as well.

[Miserablegit]

Helicopter123 said:

It's worse than that though, I like the Renault Alpine but because I would prefer a manual gearbox in a sportscar, and ideally a naturally aspirated high revving engine, you would think I'd just called someone's baby ugly. There is also a perception that anyone who doesn't put said Alpine on a pedestal above all else that they must be a 'Porsche fanboy' more interested in 'stitching' and 'interior carbon' than driving. In fact, there are plenty of other options worth considering, such as Lotus or as the article points out, some very appealing used options as well.

It’s more the fact that you express the view that anyone who likes the Alpine with its DCT is not a true enthusiast. It’s funny that people with very blinkered views try to suggest others have blinkered views...

[SidewaysSi]

Helicopter123 said:

Hungrymc said:

Ultrafunkula said:

. I think that's more of an issue with BMW/Merc/Audi to be honest (not that Porsche snobs don't exist, of course. Much like the reliability issues though, I think they are slightly exaggerated).

The vast majority of Cayman owners buy them because of what they are - a fun, well balanced, impressive drivers car. I'm sure it will be the same for Alpine.

What is it with this thread that someone can't say something positive about a car they favor without having a pop at owners of other cars..... Bonkers.

It's worse than that though, I like the Renault Alpine but because I would prefer a manual gearbox in a sportscar, and ideally a naturally aspirated high revving engine, you would think I'd just called someone's baby ugly. There is also a perception that anyone who doesn't put said Alpine on a pedestal above all else that they must be a 'Porsche fanboy' more interested in 'stitching' and 'interior carbon' than driving. In fact, there are plenty of other options worth considering, such as Lotus or as the article points out, some very appealing used options as well.

Do you have an Audi A4 and a Cayenne?!

[Matty3]

rockin said:

Matty3 said:

Great cars but wouldn't buy any of them because there are much better cars out there.

If you've read the thread you'll know Lotus and McLaren have already been mentioned. Perhaps there was something else you had in mind?

Nope cos you and others beat me to it

[bcr5784]

Matty3 said:

rockin said:

Matty3 said:

Great cars but wouldn't buy any of them because there are much better cars out there.

If you've read the thread you'll know Lotus and McLaren have already been mentioned. Perhaps there was something else you had in mind?

Nope cos you and others beat me to it

I can make a case for an Exige, an Evora or a Mclaren - but to say they are "much better" I'd find difficult to substantiate. An Exige is very compromised as a road car, a McLaren is appealing but difficult to avoid being a money pit and has reliability issues . I have a soft spot for an Evora - but at £100k it seems seriously overpriced and only makes sense (to me) as a secondhand buy.

[Helicopter123]

SidewaysSi said:

Helicopter123 said:

Hungrymc said:

Ultrafunkula said:

. I think that's more of an issue with BMW/Merc/Audi to be honest (not that Porsche snobs don't exist, of course. Much like the reliability issues though, I think they are slightly exaggerated).

The vast majority of Cayman owners buy them because of what they are - a fun, well balanced, impressive drivers car. I'm sure it will be the same for Alpine.

What is it with this thread that someone can't say something positive about a car they favor without having a pop at owners of other cars..... Bonkers.

It's worse than that though, I like the Renault Alpine but because I would prefer a manual gearbox in a sportscar, and ideally a naturally aspirated high revving engine, you would think I'd just called someone's baby ugly. There is also a perception that anyone who doesn't put said Alpine on a pedestal above all else that they must be a 'Porsche fanboy' more interested in 'stitching' and 'interior carbon' than driving. In fact, there are plenty of other options worth considering, such as Lotus or as the article points out, some very appealing used options as well.

Do you have an Audi A4 and a Cayenne?!

Yes, actively in the market for a sports car as the third car.

[cerb4.5lee]

bcr5784 said:

I have a soft spot for an Evora - but at £100k it seems seriously overpriced and only makes sense (to me) as a secondhand buy.

I'd agree with this too. I watched Harry's Garage review recently on the Evora and it just didn't seem to me to be a £80k plus car at all. The interior and the overall package just don't seem to match up to the price for me.

I really like Lotus don't get me wrong, but I'm not sure that they can get away with charging the price they do for such an old package imo.

[GTRene]

cerb4.5lee said:

bcr5784 said:

I have a soft spot for an Evora - but at £100k it seems seriously overpriced and only makes sense (to me) as a secondhand buy.

I'd agree with this too. I watched Harry's Garage review recently on the Evora and it just didn't seem to me to be a £80k plus car at all. The interior and the overall package just don't seem to match up to the price for me.

I really like Lotus don't get me wrong, but I'm not sure that they can get away with charging the price they do for such an old package imo.

I like the Evora by it looks and fine seats (not driven it though) but what amazed me, its a pretty heavy car, I guess it does not drive like a heavy car, but still.

said:

with an unladen weight of 1,383 kg (3,049 lb), with the automatic version weighing in at 1,442 kg (3,179 lb).

I thought 1200-1250 kg max for such sporty car, but then, a lot of super-cars are even heavier...but still.

luckily there are still car makers that build more lightweight specials, sadly against high prices and not so many, like this new 1.135kg car with V8 with 525hp or even 700hp...must be fast.

https://www.motor1.com/news/396433/felino-cb7r-sup...

[Cold]

GTRene said:

I like the Evora by it looks and fine seats (not driven it though) but what amazed me, its a pretty heavy car, I guess it does not drive like a heavy car, but still.

said:

with an unladen weight of 1,383 kg (3,049 lb), with the automatic version weighing in at 1,442 kg (3,179 lb).

It's lighter than the 718 GT4 but with two extra seats.

[blueg33]

Cold said:

GTRene said:

I like the Evora by it looks and fine seats (not driven it though) but what amazed me, its a pretty heavy car, I guess it does not drive like a heavy car, but still.

said:

with an unladen weight of 1,383 kg (3,049 lb), with the automatic version weighing in at 1,442 kg (3,179 lb).

It's lighter than the 718 GT4 but with two extra seats.

The Evora 410 is 1325kg

Yes, The Evora is compromised but god me the redeeming features make up for it. Steering feel, handling, ride, rarity, reliability, running costs, comfort.

For those it’s important too, interior quality is pretty good. Mine is full of leather and alcantara, it comes standard with superb heated sports bucket seats that others would charge £1000’s for.

I have had two and am in the market for another sports car, budget £70k. I will probably buy used, and still haven’t found anything that offers the feel performance and sense of occasion apart from a 20 year old Ferrari.

Edited by blueg33 on Friday 14th February 06:18

[Hungrymc]

I totally understand why people question the Evoras price. All I can say is it’s a spectacular drive. The weight is a surprise for a Lotus. And it’s a bigger surprise when you drive it as the sensations are all of a lighter car (it ‘felt’ much lighter and more agile than the 996 911 I had before - I’d have guessed at 200kg lighter, but it was actually heavier - it’s a clever trick Lotus have done there)

The interior... hmm... it’s all the right a-surface materials and the specification reads well but the detail execution isn’t great,... however. It’s a truly wonderful car and a very clever package.